Aviation Discussion

[gsnedders]

Interesting to hear. London to Singapore has to be one of the most well served routes in the world, in terms of seats. BA, Qantas, Singapore Airlines all send A380s on the route to Heathrow, with all the myriad connections via European, Middle Eastern and Asian hubs.

How many people on London to Singapore are O&D passengers, though?

 

[atillathehunn]

The approx. 8 seconds I spend Googling this lead to a routesonline article which indicated that in 2012 there were somewhere near 1.2 million passengers total, with total O&D demand being approximated at 700,000. This is not likely to be the current figure.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Interesting to hear. London to Singapore has to be one of the most well served routes in the world, in terms of seats. BA, Qantas, Singapore Airlines all send A380s on the route to Heathrow, with all the myriad connections via European, Middle Eastern and Asian hubs.

How many people on London to Singapore are O&D passengers, though?

The approx. 8 seconds I spend Googling this lead to a routesonline article which indicated that in 2012 there were somewhere near 1.2 million passengers total, with total O&D demand being approximated at 700,000. This is not likely to be the current figure.

The subject of busiest routes turns up on aviation fora quite regularly. A recent one about the top 10 worldwide long-haul routes did not include London-Singapore; the busiest is London-New York (no surprise). However Singapore did appear in the list twice for routes to Sydney and Melbourne. Incidentally the busiest route of all currently is a domestic route: Seoul-Jeju. And the busiest international route is Kuala Lumpur-Singapore.

 

[atillathehunn]

I spoke far too freely in defining busiest, it was hyperbolic given the proportion of the flights on the big ship. Though, digging into it, London Singapore is high on the list of seat kilometres flown, with the two winners (London to New York and Dubai respectively) being short-ish distances indicating Singapore (and Hong Kong with a similar score) are high capacity very long distance services.

Anyway, I digress; I didn't mean to speak with such certainty, rather rhetoric.

**** ******

Unrelated news: Virgin Atlantic have pulled their Dubai services from March next year. Not a huge surprise; one flight per day up against 10 flights per day from London with EK (6 LHR; 3LGW; 1 STN) and 3 from BA.

 

[Crawley Ben]

I spoke far too freely in defining busiest, it was hyperbolic given the proportion of the flights on the big ship. Though, digging into it, London Singapore is high on the list of seat kilometres flown, with the two winners (London to New York and Dubai respectively) being short-ish distances indicating Singapore (and Hong Kong with a similar score) are high capacity very long distance services.

Anyway, I digress; I didn't mean to speak with such certainty, rather rhetoric.

**** ******

Unrelated news: Virgin Atlantic have pulled their Dubai services from March next year. Not a huge surprise; one flight per day up against 10 flights per day from London with EK (6 LHR; 3LGW; 1 STN) and 3 from BA.

Wonder if Virgin Atlantic/Delta will drop their remaining non USA flights (out of Heathrow) in the short-medium term future?(excluding the Gatwick sunshine routes to the Caribbean etc)

Cheers

Ben

 

[atillathehunn]

I doubt Delhi will be dropped, as DL will feed VS at Heathrow. USA and Europe to India is probably going to grow.
Hong Kong I don't see getting dropped as it's a flagship route.
Johannesburg is apparently strong all round, BA adding more flights.
I can see Shanghai being dropped.

 

[Crawley Ben]

BA have confirmed today that their Gatwick-Oakland (California) route won't be returning after the last flight operates later this year (October I believe). Norwegian keeping the route on, but dropping it down to 3x weekly from later this year too as well.

 

[atillathehunn]

I believe it was to be dropped over winter and now has been killed completely. Interesting that LEVEL has moved it's Barcelona flight to SFO proper - is Oakland a bit too out of the way?

 

[Crawley Ben]

I believe it was to be dropped over winter and now has been killed completely. Interesting that LEVEL has moved it's Barcelona flight to SFO proper - is Oakland a bit too out of the way?

I wonder if it's because BA have their 'main' ops at SFO, and now they have dropped Oakland, maybe it just makes more sense to have the flights operating from the one airport as opposed to both? I could of course be completely wrong! Thw two cities are 12 or so miles apart.

It's been rumoured elsewhere that BA will instead launch a Gatwick to San Fransisco route. Same rumour being bandied about for Norwegian too as well. Watch this space I guess...

Cheers

Ben

 

[atillathehunn]

If indeed you are right that BA introduce a LGW to SFO flight then it could be that the cost sharing for resources such as handling and check in does improve financial competitiveness. BA keeping their SJC flight though cancelled solidly for a few weeks this summer with the 787 trouble

 

[gsnedders]

If indeed you are right that BA introduce a LGW to SFO flight then it could be that the cost sharing for resources such as handling and check in does improve financial competitiveness. BA keeping their SJC flight though cancelled solidly for a few weeks this summer with the 787 trouble

The SJC flight is always well loaded in the premium classes, though. AFAIK, the OAK flight was often pretty empty, especially in the premium classes. The SJC flight is an easy way to gain marketshare from well-off people living/working in Silicon Valley from those airlines only operating out of SFO.

 

[ModernRailways]

I wonder if it's because BA have their 'main' ops at SFO, and now they have dropped Oakland, maybe it just makes more sense to have the flights operating from the one airport as opposed to both? I could of course be completely wrong! Thw two cities are 12 or so miles apart.

It's been rumoured elsewhere that BA will instead launch a Gatwick to San Fransisco route. Same rumour being bandied about for Norwegian too as well. Watch this space I guess...

Cheers

Ben

Something I noticed when looking at flights out to San Francisco (I'd love to visit) is that most comparison sites only say 'San Francisco Bay Area' for airports around San Francisco and then when you do choose that you then get given the airports nearby. With 'London (All)' it seems to just search all London airports and then you go from there. Another problem is those other airports have limited public transport to/from them. Most people will always just go for San Francisco unless they need to be in Oakland and are aware of Oakland airport, and when it's a 12 hour flight there a lot of people will choose to go with SFO simply for the amount of planes that go there should something go wrong with your original flight. Going to a different, smaller airport could mean a delay becomes a nightmare rather than just being transferred to the next available flight.

 

[atillathehunn]

I think I'm being dense, but I don't really understand your first point on the searching. Not sure the hangover is helping.

Oakland is connected to the BART which is the metro system for the Bay Area. Not sure what the journey time is. However, it would seem that there is a perception problem. The same kind of perception trend that led Ryanair to serve main airports as well as/instead of minor airports. Where Ryanair only used to hang out in Hahn they now fly from Frankfurt-Main; Brussels Zaventem as well as Charleroi. Apparently the same trend is kicking in at Oakland.

Premium cabins is of course the killer. I remember when Oakland started, all the marketing was focused on Oakland being very close to the wine valley, chasing premium end tourism to the vineyards etc. However, it doesn't seem to work. The same kind of model led to starting Cape Town, which is premium tourism heavy, and seems to be working well. Perhaps the ratty 777 product on the Gatters fleet is not helping.

 

[AlterEgo]

Air Belgium’s flight to Hong Kong today has just twenty six passengers on board.

 

[atillathehunn]

I think more impressive is that it has 26 passengers and it still departed late...

Any idea how many were on the inbound (confirming hypothesis that it's inbound Chinese tourism?

 

[fowler9]

Air Belgium’s flight to Hong Kong today has just twenty six passengers on board.

26! What is the score there? Are they just not that cheap?

 

[atillathehunn]

26! What is the score there? Are they just not that cheap?

Roughly the same price as the competition.

I just think that people don't want to fly on an airline with non-daily flights on a route which from many European cities is either multiple daily direct or with connection (including 60km up the road) between a small European country surrounded by big airports, on an airline without any connections, to/from an airport that doesn't support connections, a non-alliance airline and no frequent flier programme. It's either tour groups or bust, no other reason. If in peak season they can't fill their plane, they're stuffed.

 

[fowler9]

Roughly the same price as the competition.

I just think that people don't want to fly on an airline with non-daily flights on a route which from many European cities is either multiple daily direct or with connection (including 60km up the road) between a small European country surrounded by big airports, on an airline without any connections, to/from an airport that doesn't support connections, a non-alliance airline and no frequent flier programme. It's either tour groups or bust, no other reason. If in peak season they can't fill their plane, they're stuffed.

Well I guess there are those other minor issues aside from cost. Ha ha. Apologies, I don't get to fly long haul very often and they didn't even cross my mind. Daft of me. Oddly enough when I do fly long haul I do think about them.

 

[atillathehunn]

Well I guess there are those other minor issues aside from cost. Ha ha. Apologies, I don't get to fly long haul very often and they didn't even cross my mind. Daft of me. Oddly enough when I do fly long haul I do think about them.

It's no crime. There is more to life!
I've been on a flight booking spree, so perhaps closer to the front of the mind. Long haul low-cost may work for some, though usually with less thirsty aircraft (787 and A321neo come to mind Norwegian/Primeria), with strong brand recognition before they went ultra long haul (EZE and SIN were late additions) and they go from main airports. Charleroi is an hour's coach journey or an hour and a half bus and train from Brussels proper.

With the mess up with Russian overflight rights, and low numbers reported, and all the aforementioned factors suggests this is not a long-term prospect. If you were thinking of flying long-haul, I wouldn't book too far in advance on Air Belgium (and the self-connecting Ryanair flight and 6 hour 'layover' in CRL that you would need from Manchester...)

 

[fowler9]

It's no crime. There is more to life!
I've been on a flight booking spree, so perhaps closer to the front of the mind. Long haul low-cost may work for some, though usually with less thirsty aircraft (787 and A321neo come to mind Norwegian/Primeria), with strong brand recognition before they went ultra long haul (EZE and SIN were late additions) and they go from main airports. Charleroi is an hour's coach journey or an hour and a half bus and train from Brussels proper.

With the mess up with Russian overflight rights, and low numbers reported, and all the aforementioned factors suggests this is not a long-term prospect. If you were thinking of flying long-haul, I wouldn't book too far in advance on Air Belgium (and the self-connecting Ryanair flight and 6 hour 'layover' in CRL that you would need from Manchester...)

Yeah, I really don't think ai would use them. Am looking at Japan next year to meet a mate living in Melbourne. That will probably my only long haul for the near future. Will start having a look at what is going soon. Got two trips to Poland before then which are a bit more straightforward. Gdansk with a Wizzair and most likely Katowice also with Wizzair if they still fly there from Liverpool.

 

[atillathehunn]

You're not alone with that thought apparently Fowler. Some pretty cheap fares is booking in advance. 500£ ish return from Manchester with Singapore airlines, even though it's quite the detour.
Italy next. Then Turkey for pleasure. Next long haul is Buenos Aires for work.

 

[Bald Rick]

**** ******

Unrelated news: Virgin Atlantic have pulled their Dubai services from March next year. Not a huge surprise; one flight per day up against 10 flights per day from London with EK (6 LHR; 3LGW; 1 STN) and 3 from BA.

Interesting; I’d heard word on the inside that it was doing better than VS hoped. Evidently not good enough.

 

[fowler9]

You're not alone with that thought apparently Fowler. Some pretty cheap fares is booking in advance. 500£ ish return from Manchester with Singapore airlines, even though it's quite the detour.
Italy next. Then Turkey for pleasure. Next long haul is Buenos Aires for work.

Enjoy Buenos Aires, got a feeling you have been there before? It is a long haul destination I have been to. Lots of fun.

 

[frodshamfella]

Just booked along weekend in Bergen using a new air connection from Liverpool with Norwegian Airline , Wideroe they are using new E190 E2 aircraft ...Looking forward to it

 

[fowler9]

Just booked along weekend in Bergen using a new air connection from Liverpool with Norwegian Airline , Wideroe they are using new E190 E2 aircraft ...Looking forward to it

Ooh, not heard about that, when does it start and how much does it cost?

 

[fowler9]

I see that both Heathrow and City are closed for take off and landing for a short while on the 10th July for the first time in history.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I see that both Heathrow and City are closed for take off and landing for a short while on the 10th July for the first time in history.

Something to do with a large precision formation crossing the airspace, perchance...?

 

[frodshamfella]

Ooh, not heard about that, when does it start and how much does it cost?

Hi

Its next month ( Aug) sometime, I just put in 14 Sept out and 17 Sept back euro 78 going and euro 60.00 coming back www.wideroe.no

 

[fowler9]

Something to do with a large precision formation crossing the airspace, perchance...?

I believe so.

 

[gsnedders]

I see that both Heathrow and City are closed for take off and landing for a short while on the 10th July for the first time in history.

I thought Heathrow was closed for Bush (Jr) arriving, and then it took the rest of the day to deal with the backlog that created?