Awaiting Prosecution Letter

Discussion in 'Disputes & Prosecutions' started by Arkazle, 4 May 2015.

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  1. Arkazle

    Arkazle New Member

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    Hi all,

    I am 19 years old. Around two months ago I didn't purchase a ticket from Isleworth station to Whitton (a 7 minute train journey consisting of two stops). I didn't have my debit card at the time and I boarded the train anyway which I know was very stupid.

    As I made to exit the station, I was stopped by a bunch of rail officers who asked for my ticket. I said that I didn't have one and the man ran through the questions in his notebook taking down details and writing down my appearance. He was very rude to me (fairly understandable) and made me write down my details even asking for my NI number which I obviously didn't write down.

    He asked what courses I was studying at college and actually said 'well you can forget that' in a sinister way (I don't have a clue what he meant). He then asked if I could pay for my ticket, to which I replied I couldn't, I seemed to not have the right amount of change in my pocket. He rang someone on his phone and read the details back to them and ended the call. I admit I was in the wrong and I never normally don't buy a ticket or use my oyster, in this situation I didn't have my oyster.

    I am eagerly awaiting a letter from SW Trains, what can I expect to see in the letter? I am hoping to pay a significantly large fine to the rail company to avoid a summons. Will they let me pay without summons and what would we be the best advice you can give me? I have had an offence or two in the past when I was under 18 where I paid a £20 fine and an unpaid ticket notice which was £3 if I can remember.

    If anyone can shed some light on this I would be very grateful. Other than that, I understand it is part of life to face up to a mistake like this; I am just hoping that I do not have to go to court and receive a criminal record. Thanks RailForums users! :|
     
    Last edited: 5 May 2015
  2. Clip

    Clip Established Member

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    Its hard to guess what the letter may say as they have a number of options. I take it the very rude RPI didn't make this clear to you?
     
  3. DaleCooper

    DaleCooper Established Member

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    I wish people wouldn't refer to this kind of action as a "mistake", it isn't a mistake it's a deliberate act. From the RPI's point of view the fact that you had forgotten your debit card and Oyster, didn't have sufficient cash for a ticket and have a previous offence or two(?) this must look like deliberate fare evasion.
     
  4. HilversumNS

    HilversumNS Member

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    I think the above line may be relevant, if they find out about it (like reading this forum!)
     
  5. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Looks like (from the RPIs point of view)? It is, pure and simple. These are the cases that should go straight to court without any offer of out of court settlements.
     
  6. Flamingo

    Flamingo Established Member

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    Isleworth to Whitton is a 45 minute walk...
     
  7. LexyBoy

    LexyBoy Established Member Fares Advisor

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    Sounds like they are likely to go for a Regulation of the Railways Act prosecution, which is recordable (a conviction would show up on a CRB check). As you've pointed out, your best option is to go after an out of court settlement - I'll leave it to others to advise as it's not my area.

    If you were upfront and honest, then it's not understandable for him to be rude - he's just doing his job and should treat others with respect. If on the other hand you were evasive or rude, then yes it's understandable.

    Implying a criminal record will kill your career choice off. Best ignored, at least until there is an outcome. AIUI few jobs are automatic write-offs.

    This gives SWT all the proof they need for a RoRA prosecution.

    You say this as if you only found this out when challenged. Had you checked before getting the train, or just thought you'd not buy a ticket as you didn't have your card?

    You contradict yourself here:

    ... which will both lose you a lot of sympathy from many posters here, and be unlikely to escape SWT's attention.
     
  8. CC 72100

    CC 72100 Established Member

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    So it sounds like there are previous offences, to compound the fact that the OP did not have an Oyster or debit card on them and then:

    which to me suggests, (and this speaking as a personal view/interpretation) that there was never any intent to pay the fare - why else would you catch a train not sure whether you had the funds on you to pay for your ticket?

    I can't see SWT looking on this too favourably.
     
  9. Greenback

    Greenback Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm afraid that I am another who thinks that SWT may want to make an example of you in court.
     
  10. island

    island Established Member

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    If this is your third offence then it is unlikely you will be offered yet another opportunity to deal with the matter out of court. But start saving. You might get lucky and SWT may accept a sum of money towards the unpaid fare and their expenses in detecting same – expect this to be in the three figures.

    Also it should go without saying, but don't do this again! If you don't have a ticket, don't travel on the train!
     
  11. Mag_seven

    Mag_seven Established Member

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    Given the two previous incidents (which the OP appears to have now edited out), they should be glad this country doesn't have a "three strikes law".
     
  12. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    A three strike law wouldn't apply to the OP as they haven't previously been convicted of two offences. A "£20 fine" sounds very much like a penalty fare, and a £3 UFN isn't even at the level of a PF.
     
  13. SussexMan

    SussexMan Member

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    You can make a decision in life which is clearly the "wrong" decision. In hindsight it was clearly a mistake to take that course of action. The dictionary defines a mistake as "An act or judgement that is misguided or wrong". The act of getting on a train with no money is wrong and therefore it would clearly be a mistake to do so. The OP made that mistake.

    Many people have committed criminal offences in their youth and later realised the mistake they made. Sadly some never realise their mistake. However, it is in fact a perfectly good use of the word.

    Had the OP said they did it "by mistake" (defined as "accidentally, in error") then I'd agree with you.
     
  14. DaleCooper

    DaleCooper Established Member

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    You're right of course but I still feel the choice of word is intended to minimise the seriousness of the action. Perhaps my view has become jaded by politicians who say they've made a mistake when caught fiddling expenses, strictly speaking true but it still rankles with me as I don't think they would have considered it a mistake if they had got away with it.
     
  15. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    Regardless of the rights and wrongs of what you did or didn't do why is it understandable that he was rude to you? As far as I am concerned rudeness from staff is unprofessional and unacceptable.
     
  16. island

    island Established Member

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    Rudeness is a matter of perception, and someone caught bang to rights having committed a criminal offence may perceive it as rude to be told so and questioned about it. An uninterested observer would be much less likely to so perceive it.
     
  17. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    Well I can only take what the OP said in good faith.

    I've seen some RPI's whose attitude has left much to be desired.
     
  18. Flamingo

    Flamingo Established Member

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    I own Tower Bridge. Do you want to buy it for £100?
    (After all, I'm an anonymous poster on a website, with an interest in painting myself in as good a light as possible, I MUST be telling the truth :roll:)
     
  19. reb0118

    reb0118 Established Member Fares Advisor

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    Correct. As an aside what would be best uninterested or disinterested?

    It can very difficult to tell someone that they have made a mistake, and even more so when that mistake can have severe financial penalties.

    A set procedure when dealing with the travelling public unfortunately does not result in a set response due to various factors as even politely, but firmly, asking to see a ticket can result in cheek and abuse.
     
  20. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    Now you're being silly:roll:

    On a forum like this you have to take what is posted in good faith or what is the point of it and he's not exactly the first person to comment on rudeness from RPI's!
     
    Last edited: 7 May 2015
  21. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    ohe isn't,he is showing how silly you are being though!
    No you dont, it is your choice to!


    So if enough people say it then it must be true then! :lol:
    Anyone being questioned about something they have done wrong will find the questioning invasive, it isn't a very big step from invasive to rude, rude as in 'I don't like the questions' rather than the true definition of rude.
     
  22. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    I wouldn't say that you have to take everything in good faith, if something makes your spider sense tingle then don't ignore it. I do agree that any advice given can only be based on what the poster has said - if they choose to leave out pertinent facts, then they will get bad advice.
     
  23. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    If enough people say it then it certainly increases the likelihood of it being true and it is certainly in stark contrast to the way police officers are trained to deal with members of the public.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Actually to quote you from another thread "if it doesn't sound true it probably isn't":D
     
  24. Flamingo

    Flamingo Established Member

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    My manager has had numerous complaints from passengers who did not have valid tickets saying how rude I am. None from passengers who did have tickets. And several letters from passengers who observed the interaction with the ticketless individuals to say how professional I was...
     
  25. LexyBoy

    LexyBoy Established Member Fares Advisor

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    Is there any need to have the tedious rudeness "debate" (by which I mean constant insinuations that whoever claimed it must be lying) yet again?

    Some people will feel questioning is rude when it's really just uncomfortably to-the-point; others will get rude responses to their own rudeness, and others will have encountered an RPI who happens to be an unpleasant person. As I said earlier on, trying to forestall such discussion, only the OP can know whether the RPI was reasonable or not in any rudeness.

    I have been verbally abused by an RPI, and likewise other forum members have had unfounded allegations made against them: it happens. In those instances valid tickets were held - that doesn't mean that the reports we read in D&P are not true just because the passenger didn't have a valid ticket.

    Apologies for the rant.
     
  26. Greenback

    Greenback Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    You're right, LexyBoy, this isn't the place for such a debate. Let's leave the rudeness discussion for now. Anyone can feel free to start a new thread if they feel it's that important. Thanks all.
     
  27. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Moved in accordance with the policy and as agreed via PM:

     
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