Aysgarth Station - Wensleydale Railway

[ThetrackMaster]

Personally I think Garsdale is a wasted thought.
There is no solid reason to need or want to go to connect with garsdale.
There are enough diversionary routes across the Pennines so another doesn't make economic sense. I've always suspected this was someone's nostalgic dream.
No it's about running a service for tourists.
Leyburn is a nice place and Aysgarth rocks with visitors. When I venture up to the dales leyburn and Aysgarth is always well populated.
That's why I think Aysgarth should be retained.
Incedentally I think perhaps should ask the owners of that nearby castle if a station could be built somewhere near. That might be a good idea too in between redmire and Aysgarth??

 

[WensleyDale]

Personally I think Garsdale is a wasted thought.
There is no solid reason to need or want to go to connect with garsdale.
There are enough diversionary routes across the Pennines so another doesn't make economic sense. I've always suspected this was someone's nostalgic dream.
No it's about running a service for tourists.
Leyburn is a nice place and Aysgarth rocks with visitors. When I venture up to the dales leyburn and Aysgarth is always well populated.
That's why I think Aysgarth should be retained.
Incedentally I think perhaps should ask the owners of that nearby castle if a station could be built somewhere near. That might be a good idea too in between redmire and Aysgarth??

Trackmaster. Couldn't agree more. Aysgarth has always been the goal. Leyburn/Aysgarth is the ideal heritage railway route - plenty to see and do at each each end, journey time less than 30 minutes, facilities to store and service rolling stock. It's a dream. That castle you mention could be the icing on the cake - a simple "halt" at Castle Bolton could increase visitor numbers for both the railway and English Heritage. Seems like a no brainer to me.
It's not the just tourists, it's the local jobs and the community they secure. This is Wensleydale- we can't survive on sheep and cheese!

 

[theblackwatch]

As has been said, the WR's financial position is pretty poor - and has been for as long as I can remember. I have just dug out the plc annual report/accounts for 2014 and it refers to 'the cash flow crisis'. Realistically, the railway's chances of being able to get to Aysgarth or beyond are 0% in my opinion. The WR plc has recognised this - the shareholders letter states "the inescapable fact is that the railway's chances of even reaching Aysgarth with its own resources when it can't even afford to maintain the current stretch of track, are virtually nil". Something has to be done, and unfortunately, getting to Aysgarth is just a pipe-dream.

 

[Worf]

Realistically, the railway's chances of being able to get to Aysgarth or beyond are 0% in my opinion. The WR plc has recognised this - the shareholders letter states "the inescapable fact is that the railway's chances of even reaching Aysgarth with its own resources when it can't even afford to maintain the current stretch of track, are virtually nil". Something has to be done, and unfortunately, getting to Aysgarth is just a pipe-dream.

I quoted that phrase from the shareholders letter in Post 10. Sounds pretty defeatist to me. Also, if that is the case, why are they still seeking charitable donations for the Aysgarth extension https://www.justgiving.com/campaigns/charity/wensleydale-railway/aysgarth

The money gained from the sale of Aysgarth station will not bail out the present setup for long and is just going to prolong the agony. They appear to have no long term solution.

A radical rethink is what is needed if the railway is to survive. As has been said by others Leyburn - Redmire - Aysgarth is viable and will generate a good income. It is the most scenic bit of the line, has poorish roads and plenty of tourists. If and when it is a success, then further extensions could always be considered once they were affordable, much as has been done on the majority of other preserved railways.

 

[theblackwatch]

And while operating that, the remainder of the line will still need to be paid for/maintained until 2102....

 

[Worf]

And while operating that, the remainder of the line will still need to be paid for/maintained until 2102....

I am sure there are some break points in the lease.

 

[backontrack]

Northallerton West is starting to look a bit like a waste of money. I mean, Aysgarth to Bedale or even Leeming Bar (for the A1) makes sense, but the extension to Scruton and Northallerton's suburbs increasingly looks like a waste of money. Shouldn't Aysgarth have been their aim instead? I mean, with the dividends they could have raised - we could be looking at direct Northallerton-Aysgarth trains now if they'd taken that decision.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Would I be correct in assuming that the tourist attractions between Redmire and Hawes, apart from Hawes Village itself, are waterfalls near Aysgarth and Bolton Castle? (Did there not used to be a halt in fact at Bolton Castle?) I seem to remember seeing signs for these when travelling on a vintage bus service from Redmire station to Hawes after alighting from a Wenselydale train a few years ago. There was also a very good pub in Redmire too.

 

[Worf]

Would I be correct in assuming that the tourist attractions between Redmire and Hawes, apart from Hawes Village itself, are waterfalls near Aysgarth and Bolton Castle? (Did there not used to be a halt in fact at Bolton Castle?) I seem to remember seeing signs for these when travelling on a vintage bus service from Redmire station to Hawes after alighting from a Wenselydale train a few years ago. There was also a very good pub in Redmire too.

Correct!

 

[JonathanP]

Northallerton West is starting to look a bit like a waste of money. I mean, Aysgarth to Bedale or even Leeming Bar (for the A1) makes sense, but the extension to Scruton and Northallerton's suburbs increasingly looks like a waste of money. Shouldn't Aysgarth have been their aim instead? I mean, with the dividends they could have raised - we could be looking at direct Northallerton-Aysgarth trains now if they'd taken that decision.

Northallerton West "station" is a cheaply built temporary platform as close as they could get to the junction with the main line. There was no extension as such, the track was already in place and operational. I see it as a useful "quick win" utilising assets they already had, but a drop in the ocean compared to the resources required for a real extension to Aysgarth.

Much as I would love it to happen, the fact that the WR have so far struggled even to maintain and operate on a stable financial basis the track that was already in situ when they took over the line make me pessimistic that they would ever be able to attempt an extension without some kind of major external support.

 

[37038]

There is potential in the extension west, but at what cost. Most funding is going on the necessary equipment to upgrade the LCs to standard. Then back to square one on funding.

The sale of Aysgarth would raise a good amount of cash, which could go some way to upgrading the crossings, building a shed, paying off debts etc etc. But in the long term it would limit their ambitions of reaching Aysgarth *if* the new owner didn't play ball.

In the short term for a line which struggles with money. A short/medium term plan which is sensible and achievable would be to link Northallerton with Bolton Castle (Halt). Which provides an ECML link to Leyburn/Redmire/Bolton Castle, the primary tourist attractions along the route.

 

[Worf]

There is potential in the extension west, but at what cost. Most funding is going on the necessary equipment to upgrade the LCs to standard. Then back to square one on funding.

The sale of Aysgarth would raise a good amount of cash, which could go some way to upgrading the crossings, building a shed, paying off debts etc etc. But in the long term it would limit their ambitions of reaching Aysgarth *if* the new owner didn't play ball.

In the short term for a line which struggles with money. A short/medium term plan which is sensible and achievable would be to link Northallerton with Bolton Castle (Halt). Which provides an ECML link to Leyburn/Redmire/Bolton Castle, the primary tourist attractions along the route.

Aysgarth actually gets far more visitors than Castle Bolton. Although enthusiasts would welcome an ECML link, the average tourist (who are by far the largest "customer") just wants a train ride through stunning scenery - which is the west end of the line. Keeping alive the Aysgarth Aspiration (as the Company still calls it) generates interest from volunteers and enthusiasts, who are the ones that make running the railway possible. Judging by the accounts, the income gained from selling Aysgarth will keep things going for a couple of years at most unless some drastic changes are made.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Personally I think Garsdale is a wasted thought.

Garsdale would, however, mean you'd attract people doing both that and the S&C.

 

[ThetrackMaster]

Guys as much as it pains me to say, some of the posts about linking to Garsdale...Northallerton to Bolton Castle, with all due respect its all fanciful stuff but totally never going to be a reality on paying its way.
Look around at other Heritage Railways, they all struggle, the longer they get. We've got a few here in the South and its generally known the shorter ones too better than the longer ones, particularly if you can offer steam.
I don't want to sound as though I am decrying big railways but you have to have some pretty convincing rationale in place to make it work.
For the WR?
1). Nice scenery - Check
2). Funding to run an operation - NO not enough
3). Volunteers - NO Short on numbers
4). No covered workshops \ storage - NO
5). Multiple loco operation - NO No lops or signalling in operation
6). Redmire - Nice scenery, but nothing there
7). Leeming Bar - Nothing there
Leyburns the place to be at - lovely and would be a good starting point to Aysgarth. Its about 7 or 8 miles so why not make a fantastic railway.
In their publicity they say it all the time. The liability for crossings, track and embankments is all east of Leyburn - So negotiate with NR, buy it for a token sum and rip up and scrap the line east of Leyburn. That should generate a tidy sum and even the land could be sold off.
Someone recently suggested to me that the military sidings at Redmire would be ideal for covered workshop storage.
Finally a shorter railway has many benefits;
(A). Less track and infrastructure to look after
(B). Less vigorous use of locos
(C). Less fule cost
(D). Fewer liabilities Leyburn to Aysgarth
(E). As the line would be owned by the WR rather than leased from NR as it is now, this would open it up for Heritage lottery and other grant funding to not only improve the railway but also extend to Aysgarth from Redmire.

 

[Worf]

Agreed, with the added bonus that vandalism would be much reduced as it would all be in as "nice" area. Radical thinking is required, but with the PLC AGM being on 9th September, and a supposed vote on the sale being taken then, time is at a premium.

 

[ThetrackMaster]

I'd like to pick up on another interesting point which was mentioned in an earlier post.
The fund that the WRA(T) trust has set up for the AYSGARTH AMBITION is still set up. To receive monies from individuals.
It also has £128k in its fund - interesting??
Two things need to happen here.
1-either monies need handing back to those who contributed
Or 2- it's put towards any group (as a WRA(T) shareholing ) in ana NEWCOMER to buy it.
This would then retain a WR interest in Aysgarth whilst releasing cash (this + funding) to the PLC

 

[DerekC]

I have always wondered about the Wensleydale Railway (used to live at Aiskew many years ago so have a sort of local interest). I agree that east of Bedale is not very exciting, but the route from Bedale westwards is lovely and I can't see why it couldn't be a roaring success. Somehow it lacks that spark. A quick look at the website confirms it - the home page features a clean but not very exciting 1st gen DMU in an unspectactular background. Compare with NYMR, Watercress Line. Where is the nice big park and ride in the Leeming/Bedale area? Where is the active support from the National Park to reduce car journeys? Where are the "Herriot specials"? The world's most famous vet still pulls in tourists from round the world and some good scenes were shot on the WR. In fact why not the "Herriot Line"? (I will get some brickbats for that, but it wouldn't half pull in the punters). It is quite a long way from anywhere in terms of volunteer resources, but so are the Welsh narrow gauge lines.

I agree it looks like a new committee is needed with more drive, more commercial nous and (probably) less desperation to be part of the national network. If only I still lived in Aiskew!

 

[theblackwatch]

I'd like to pick up on another interesting point which was mentioned in an earlier post.
The fund that the WRA(T) trust has set up for the AYSGARTH AMBITION is still set up. To receive monies from individuals.
It also has £128k in its fund - interesting??
Two things need to happen here.
1-either monies need handing back to those who contributed
Or 2- it's put towards any group (as a WRA(T) shareholing ) in ana NEWCOMER to buy it.
This would then retain a WR interest in Aysgarth whilst releasing cash (this + funding) to the PLC

The 'Aysgarth Ambition' project doesn't just cover Aysgarth itself, but a number of other things on the line, which are broken down at http://www.wensleydalerail.com/donations/ . It will certainly need renaming!

One thing worth remembering is the Wensleydale Railway was not set up to be a heritage/preserved railway, it was set up as a community line running a daily service. Extension from Redmire to Aysgarth was listed in the share prospectus as being one of the 'expansion opportunities being actively considered'. The main aim was operation between Northallerton and Redmire, with a proposal that in 2005 the following stations would be operated: Northallerton, Scruton, Leeming Bar, Bedale, Newton-le-Willows, Finghall, Leyburn and Redmire. Even though not all this has been achieved, I think any proposal to ditch the line East of Leyburn would be totally against what the line was set up for, and what shareholders invested in. Leeming Bar is also important in that it offers easy access off the A1 and keeps some tourist traffic off the local roads.

I do remember that in one of the early years, I went up mid-week and I think, other than the two crew, the only other people on board were one of the directors and one other passenger. I questioned the viability of running and was told as everything was in place, all it cost was the fuel on the DMU. Clearly, the ideas of the (then) directors were somewhat over-ambitious and others have been left to pick up the pieces. Incidentally, under the 'Strengths & Prospects' it mentions 'A board of Directors and a management team with a very strong commitment to the Company' - so strong that none of them are Directors now!

 

[WensleyDale]

Totally agree DerekC. As one of the hard won volunteers I feel completely let down by the ineptitude of the guys at the top. There was an interesting article in the latest issue of the house magazine ("Relay") entitled "the invisible railway". It summarised the lack of vision, or dare I say incompetence of those that claim to run the Wensleydale Railway. It's time for a major overhaul.
By the way, since the opening of the Bedale bypass Aiskew has become a haven of tranquility. Suggest you move back north before the masses discover what they are missing

 

[WensleyDale]

I'd like to pick up on another interesting point which was mentioned in an earlier post.
The fund that the WRA(T) trust has set up for the AYSGARTH AMBITION is still set up. To receive monies from individuals.
It also has £128k in its fund - interesting??
Two things need to happen here.
1-either monies need handing back to those who contributed
Or 2- it's put towards any group (as a WRA(T) shareholing ) in ana NEWCOMER to buy it.
This would then retain a WR interest in Aysgarth whilst releasing cash (this + funding) to the PLC

Trackmaster, your post reminded me that a while ago I made a donation to the crowd funding website - raising money to extend the line to Aysgarth. In view of recent events I feel that I am owed a refund. It is hardly believable that the web funding is still live when the AGM papers state "the inescapable fact is that the railway’s chances of even reaching Aysgarth with its own resources, when it can’t even afford to maintain the current stretch of track, are virtually nil". Sounds like they've thrown in the towel, in which case fundraising efforts for this specific purpose should be halted.

 

[DarloRich]

To my mind the extension to the national network at Northallerton is of more importance than Aysgarth. I feel that will bring in more visitors and improve accessibility. I have always felt that onward extension beyond Remdire ( and certainly Aysgarth) was pie in the sky. What is more important than both is ensuring the existing line is open for business. I doubt that the works done to stabilise Akebar has left much in the coffers. The rest of the track is fairly ropy in places and that clearly needs attention.

Trackmaster, your post reminded me that a while ago I made a donation to the crowd funding website - raising money to extend the line to Aysgarth. In view of recent events I feel that I am owed a refund. It is hardly believable that the web funding is still live when the AGM papers state "the inescapable fact is that the railway’s chances of even reaching Aysgarth with its own resources, when it can’t even afford to maintain the current stretch of track, are virtually nil". Sounds like they've thrown in the towel, in which case fundraising efforts for this specific purpose should be halted.

you aren't, necessarily, entitled to a refund. As always the small print will govern things. You should check exactly what it says.

I'd like to pick up on another interesting point which was mentioned in an earlier post.
The fund that the WRA(T) trust has set up for the AYSGARTH AMBITION is still set up. To receive monies from individuals.
It also has £128k in its fund - interesting??
Two things need to happen here.
1-either monies need handing back to those who contributed
Or 2- it's put towards any group (as a WRA(T) shareholing ) in ana NEWCOMER to buy it.
This would then retain a WR interest in Aysgarth whilst releasing cash (this + funding) to the PLC

sadly, in the real world, it isnt that easy. It is certainly not that easy with a trust involved.

 

[IanD]

Not surprised to hear they are struggling.

I've been a member of the Association (not a shareholder) for over 30 years. Communication is dire. I responded to one of their appeals a while back and have heard nothing since. On numerous occasions I have emailed and asked for some update and have received a response once - basically telling me to p!ss off because they are too busy.

If that is typical of how they interact with people who are actually on their side then there is really no hope.

I think my membership expires next year and I have seen nothing that would make me consider renewing this time.

 

[MP33]

I read that East of Redmire there are a number of over bridges missing and embankments that have badly subsided due to rabbit damage. The short tunnel on the route is either collasped or in a dangerous condition and a new tunnel would need to be bored next door.

At Garsdale does the route cross the car park of a business and their places would have to be replaced?

The BBC featured the Railway on Countryfile and they interviewed the owner of an estate near Boldon Castle. He was keen on an extension as I think he had plans for his wealthy grouse shooting guests to be picked up at Northallerton and taken by private train pullman service to their destination.

If the management is that bad did he give up on his proposal?

 

[theblackwatch]

For those of you who think the management is dire, the Chairman's post is vacant! Nice salary of nothing, lots of grief from complaining people, and lots that needs doing with a budget of zero... Do I see everyone rushing forward or heading out of the door?

 

[otto52]

New member here, I've been a volunteer at Aysgarth the last 2 or 3 years. I think this issue has been handled very badly, we have been presented with this sale as more or less a fait accompli and AFAIK TASP was not informed or consulted prior to despatch of the AGM papers so it was as much a surprise to us as everyone else.

Laudable as the founders of the WR's intentions to re-open the line as a community railway are, they seemed to have overlooked the fact that the community seldom used the line back in the 50s which is why it closed in the first place. Now pretty much everyone in the community has a car or access to one. Bringing visitors into the Dale from the main line(s) is a great idea to reduce road traffic but the problem is what do they do when they get here? There is hardly any public transport here apart from the bus services along the A684 which duplicate the route of the WR. Visitors want to explore the area and it cannot practically be done without a car. I use the bus service to and from Garsdale Station to Hawes now and then and am frequently the only passenger, so that hardly seems a justification for restoring that end of the line!

In my view the only future for the WR is as a proper heritage railway running initially from Leyburn to Redmire and ultimately to Aysgarth. Aysgarth Falls and Bolton Castle are tourist honeypots and neither has a large car park. TASP gets most of its income from overspill car parking when the National Park car park is full - a regular occurrence during the season.

Perhaps a compromise is the answer. If the potential purchaser of Aysgarth coule be persuaded to form some sort of alliance with the current WR which keeps the station open to the public and actively encourages the reinstatement of the missing track, I might feel able to continue to work at the station; I didn't spend a great deal of time there in order to have the plug pulled and I certainly won't want to work on a rich man's private toy! Aysgarth Station is the jewel in the WR's crown and to sell it now would in my view be the height of folly, when the local authorities and community are largely in favour of reinstatement. The line must be shorter and run as a proper heritage railway otherwise it is doomed.

 

[Worf]

I totally agree otto52. Unfortunately, from what I understand, the "favoured" potential purchaser doesn't have a great track record when it comes to compromise!

 

[WensleyDale]

A good summary otto52. The net cash released by the sale of Aysgarth will be a mere drop in the ocean of what is required to run an increasingly dilapidated railway that is much too long, travels through unremarkable countryside for much of its length and quite frankly cannot attract the numbers to get anywhere close to breaking even. This time next year there will be wringing of hands yet again except there will be even fewer options having sold the Crown Jewels for peanuts.

 

[DarloRich]

A good summary otto52. The net cash released by the sale of Aysgarth will be a mere drop in the ocean of what is required to run an increasingly dilapidated railway that is much too long, travels through unremarkable countryside for much of its length and quite frankly cannot attract the numbers to get anywhere close to breaking even. This time next year there will be wringing of hands yet again except there will be even fewer options having sold the Crown Jewels for peanuts.

So where does the money come from to keep the line open?

 

[Worf]

So where does the money come from to keep the line open?

"Donations and revenue grants" (basically from funds raised by the WRA Trust, donations and bequests) £220,563 y/e 31/03/17, which can't be relied on, especially if this sale goes ahead.

 

[DarloRich]

"Donations and revenue grants" (basically from funds raised by the WRA Trust, donations and bequests) £220,563 y/e 31/03/17, which can't be relied on, especially if this sale goes ahead.

which doesn't sound like enough money to start with. I am not saying I agree with the sale just that there might be no choice if the line is to remain open.