Aysgarth Station - Wensleydale Railway

[Worf]

Is Aysgarth a Charity asset or a Plc asset?? - or both.

If it is a Charity asset has the charity fully marketed the site to the satisfaction of the Charity Commission, obtained a certificate of value franking any deal and obtained Charity Commission approval to the sale and its terms.

If the answer to any of these puts the Charity Trustees or Plc board in an invidious position with the Charity Commission then the sale cannot proceed and it would be perfectly in order for an AGM to dismiss both bodies

But of course they would then need new people to take over the wreckage and go forward.

Interesting times!

Wensleydale Railway PLC own some of assets, including Leeming Bar Station and Aysgarth Station, the trackbed (and track) from Northallerton West to Redmire is leased from Network Rail. The rest of the trackbed to Aysgarth is in private ownership and the trackbed in the environs of Aysgarth Station is owned by the PLC. The PLC is supported (financially and with voluntary labour) by the Wensleydale Railway Association (Trust), who are also a major shareholder in the Company. Interesting times indeed.

 

[DarloRich]

Is Aysgarth a Charity asset or a Plc asset?? - or both.

If it is a Charity asset has the charity fully marketed the site to the satisfaction of the Charity Commission, obtained a certificate of value franking any deal and obtained Charity Commission approval to the sale and its terms.

If the answer to any of these puts the Charity Trustees or Plc board in an invidious position with the Charity Commission then the sale cannot proceed and it would be perfectly in order for an AGM to dismiss both bodies

But of course they would then need new people to take over the wreckage and go forward.

Interesting times!

i don't think there is a charity involved.

In any event you don't necessarily have to go through all of the hoops suggested above to dispose of an asset belonging to a charity. For the layman this site will do for guidance:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/charity-land-and-property

Certainly very interesting times ahead!

 

[TBirdFrank]

I made this enquiry direct of the Plc and have been advised in no uncertain terms that this is a Plc matter and nothing to do with the Trust.

The tone of the email is such that one can only hope that the AGM next month makes it's feeling perfectly clear and that the whole matter is returned to a proper public arena before any sale is attempted again.

My interest - I have a railway enthusiast colleague with a budget well in advance of the suggested sale price who would likely make a far better and more sympathetic purchaser than either of the names bandied about so far.

 

[DarloRich]

I made this enquiry direct of the Plc and have been advised in no uncertain terms that this is a Plc matter and nothing to do with the Trust.

The tone of the email is such that one can only hope that the AGM next month makes it's feeling perfectly clear and that the whole matter is returned to a proper public arena before any sale is attempted again.

That is, of course, the correct answer. The PLC own the asset and are asking their shareholders to endorse or reject the sale. Your views or my views are, correctly, of no interest to them.

The trust do, however, have an interest by way of their shareholding in the PLC. I assume them to be a a large shareholder and therefore armed with power and influence. The fact their agm is not until after the PLC agm must be very convenient for the PLC!

My interest - I have a railway enthusiast colleague with a budget well in advance of the suggested sale price who would likely make a far better and more sympathetic purchaser than either of the names bandied about so far.

Well get him to table an offer to the PLC ASAP!

 

[ThetrackMaster]

Unfortunately from what I hear from one or two at the TASP Group meeting held last night at Aysgarth with the WR General Manager \ Director and a Director (Steve Davies) the PLC Directors are adamant that this sale needs to happen to save the railway.

Selling Aysgarth will undoubtably raise much needed funds of the WR, but it depends on how they are spent. They don't have a good track record on this to date!

Plus Aysgarth will only raise a fraction of what they need, so where will they get the continuing monies for operations going forward? The railway operations doesnt appear to wash its face, so unless some form of drastic and realist action is taken this will continue?

I understand it was put to them at last nights meeting a number of points, namely;

1). There hadn't been a realistic period to put the proposal on the table and it seemed it was being rushed through.

2). Would they accept an alternative bid, my sources say they were reluctant on this point almost and suggested they were well down the process of discussion "but it wasn't a done deal yet"

Look at the end of the day its those in power calling the shots.

Anyone who knows the railway, best bit is without doubt Leyburn to Aysgarth section.

It would appear this chap is interested in relaying the section to Redmire from Aysgarth - then what happens? Who will be in control then?

To me its a simple choice by shareholders of the PLC.

Do you wish to see Aysgarth sold or not?

If you don't, then please shareholders make your point on the day, because you will only get one chance.

Then there is WRA(T) governance to consider. If the PLC Shareholders vote no to a sale, attentions need to be then focused on whoever has decided in WRA(T) to side with the PLC directors, because that would be clearly out with the will of the membership and thus would need addressing, maybe a regime change there too?

A MESSAGE - PLC SHARE HOLDERS - MAKE YOUR POSITION KNOWN - THIS IS SERIOUS - A "ONE OFF" BUT A DECISION THAT WILL CHANGE THE RAILWAY FOREVER GOING FORWARD - PLEASE GET IT RIGHT!!

 

[DarloRich]

Unfortunately from what I hear from one or two at the TASP Group meeting held last night at Aysgarth with the WR General Manager \ Director and a Director (Steve Davies) the PLC Directors are adamant that this sale needs to happen to save the railway.

Selling Aysgarth will undoubtably raise much needed funds of the WR, but it depends on how they are spent. They don't have a good track record on this to date!

Plus Aysgarth will only raise a fraction of what they need, so where will they get the continuing monies for operations going forward? The railway operations doesnt appear to wash its face, so unless some form of drastic and realist action is taken this will continue?

I understand it was put to them at last nights meeting a number of points, namely;

1). There hadn't been a realistic period to put the proposal on the table and it seemed it was being rushed through.

2). Would they accept an alternative bid, my sources say they were reluctant on this point almost and suggested they were well down the process of discussion "but it wasn't a done deal yet"

Look at the end of the day its those in power calling the shots.

Anyone who knows the railway, best bit is without doubt Leyburn to Aysgarth section.

It would appear this chap is interested in relaying the section to Redmire from Aysgarth - then what happens? Who will be in control then?

To me its a simple choice by shareholders of the PLC.

Do you wish to see Aysgarth sold or not?

If you don't, then please shareholders make your point on the day, because you will only get one chance.

Then there is WRA(T) governance to consider. If the PLC Shareholders vote no to a sale, attentions need to be then focused on whoever has decided in WRA(T) to side with the PLC directors, because that would be clearly out with the will of the membership and thus would need addressing, maybe a regime change there too?

A MESSAGE - PLC SHARE HOLDERS - MAKE YOUR POSITION KNOWN - THIS IS SERIOUS - A "ONE OFF" BUT A DECISION THAT WILL CHANGE THE RAILWAY FOREVER GOING FORWARD - PLEASE GET IT RIGHT!!

I agree. The directors are, however, in an invidious position. A cash offer has been made that will, in the short term, maintain liquidity but in the long term accepting that offer may harm the railway.

 

[Worf]

The situation has now reached the front pages of the local press.
The PLC are adamant that the sale will go through and no other offers will be accepted, and the Association (Trust), who have apparently backed the sale without any consultation with their members whatsoever, are STILL fundraising for the extension to Aysgarth!
https://www.justgiving.com/campaigns/charity/wensleydale-railway/aysgarth

Is this legal?

 

[DarloRich]

The situation has now reached the front pages of the local press.

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/ne..._fears_for_the_future_of_Wensleydale_Railway/

Northern Echo: Plans to sell Aysgarth station spark fears for the future of Wensleydale Railway

I knew the Echo would be interested ( it is behind a paywall but you can read the gist)

 

[Worf]

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/ne..._fears_for_the_future_of_Wensleydale_Railway/



I knew the Echo would be interested ( it is behind a paywall but you can read the gist)

The Board already appear to be telling blatant mistruths. They say the letter sent to shareholders was confidential. I have copy of the letter (legally!). It is neither signed or dated, and there is no mention in it anywhere of it being confidential.

Their whole attitude leaves a very nasty taste and will only hasten the demise of the railway.

 

[WensleyDale]

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/ne..._fears_for_the_future_of_Wensleydale_Railway/



I knew the Echo would be interested ( it is behind a paywall but you can read the gist)

Also front page headline news in the Darlington and Stockton Times. In addition, the editorial makes interesting reading as does a letter from one of the founding figures of the Wensleydale Railway. The sooner this matter is opened to scrutiny the better.

 

[WensleyDale]

The situation has now reached the front pages of the local press.
The PLC are adamant that the sale will go through and no other offers will be accepted, and the Association (Trust), who have apparently backed the sale without any consultation with their members whatsoever, are STILL fundraising for the extension to Aysgarth!
https://www.justgiving.com/campaigns/charity/wensleydale-railway/aysgarth

Is this legal?

As an earlier donor to the justgiving campaign I questioned the legality with the justgiving organisation and in their response to me they said that they will continue to hand over any donations on a weekly basis regardless of how the monies are being used by the charity.
They did suggest however that if individual subscribers were concerned they should contact the Charities Commission who would determine whether monies were being elicited under false pretences.

 

[Worf]

I paid a visit to Aysgarth Station yesterday, as they were staging what may wll be the last of their "open days". The volunteers have made a fantasic job of "fettling" the station. Everything is spic and span, with a great cafe coach also. Plenty to see.

More to the point, by mid-morning the nearby National Trust Car Park was full, and car loads of tourists were pouring in to the station car park and using the facilities. It would be absolute MADNESS to sell of this "honeypot" for what amounts to a pittance, but that seems to be what the Board are determined to do. Somehow, the sale must be delayed, to ensure that the station can be saved from private ownership, perhaps as a community asset, and tourist attraction in its own right.

 

[Shenandoah]

Sorry to rain on your party Worf, but how often is the busy situation that you saw happening? To be fair you visited on what is usually regarded as the busiest week-end of the year.

 

[Worf]

Sorry to rain on your party Worf, but how often is the busy situation that you saw happening? To be fair you visited on what is usually regarded as the busiest week-end of the year.

Aysgarth is busy virtually every weekend throughout the year - just ask anyone who lives there. The opposite applies to Leeming Bar!

 

[ThetrackMaster]

For those of you members and shareholders that believe the WR PLC Board reasons to want to sell, I'd like to avail you of a few facts that you may not be aware of.

Before I state my case, I wholeheartedly agree that the WR is in a very difficult financial "pickle" and can to a point understand the need to quickly realise some cash.

That said, its not all that it seems and there are alternatives to selling to raise necessary cash, whilst retaining Aysgarth.

1). Aysgarth site sale is proposed which will be at £400k and after clearing loan \ incidental debts will realise £200k capital

2). Aysgarth site (value £400k) has a loan (circa £200k) secured by the free hold of Leeming Bar site (value circa £160/180k)

3). Aysgarth "costs" the WR circa £20k per annum, of which the majority is made up of the loan.


Questions therefore need to be asked to the WR PLC Board why they need to sell are as follows;

a). If the Aysgarth site is valued at 400K why does the Leeming Bar site have to be taken as additional security, given the loan is only £200k AND Leeming Bar has an asset value WITH NO LOAN of circa £160\180k?

b). As the service charge of 20k per annum which works out on a debt of 200k to be 10% - why hasn't a loan been arranged with a lower more competitive interest rate?

c). Surely the value of the Aysgarth property is sufficient security for the 200K loan and the Leeming Bar property could be released so that a potential grant could be obtained

As a parallel to the above, we also need to review whats been happening with all of the monies from the "appeals" over the last few years and there have been a few, namely....MARS, Aysgarth Ambition, The track appeal and son on.

The Aysgarth Ambition has accumulated a considerable amount of money. Wheres it gone, has it been spent if so on what. Has it been spent at all?

Lets make no bones about it - Aysgarth can if managed correctly be a very successful, lucrative business income stream for the WR.

This sale is causing a lot of unnecessary bad publicity for the WR which in time, the board will learn it can ill afford.

There is no excuse for selling Aysgarth.

FINALLY IN RESPONSE TO SHENANDOAH - You clearly know nothing!! Aysgarth station EVERY Bank Holiday weekend is packed out and today was no exception. How do I know this? Well for the past 4 years I have made a point of coming up to the area and visiting each day. The place is a real GEM.
Its just a shame that the WR PLC Board don't see that.......or do they?

 

[Slimshady]

Of course there are many armchair experts on here ready with advice.
Perhaps you will all stand at the AGM for election to the board?
Then you could run it the way you see fit.

 

[WensleyDale]

3). Aysgarth "costs" the WR circa £20k per annum, of which the majority is made up of the loan.

It must not be forgotten that Aysgarth currently generates a 5 figure annual income stream that must be offset against the cost of the loan. With a little imagination and business acumen the site could generate a healthy profit.

 

[Shenandoah]

Trackmaster confirms the comment by Worf that mentions Bank Holiday week-ends as being busy. A profitable business cannot rely just on a few days each year to pay its way by being busy on those days.
As a heritage supporter and contributor, not just railways, I would be more than delighted if most week-ends were busy then your railway could make good financial progress and development.

 

[ThetrackMaster]

Shenandoah
Supportive reply - Totally agree, but unless you've visited the site, you wont be aware of the opportunities.
Cottage to let, possibility of camping coaches being put on site to let both of these would generate a substantial income.
Yes I agree that Open days on BH's are small beer in the scheme of things but if a co-ordinated effort was put in, a significant return would be made by opening the site up to many other uses, as a hub for the western dale.
Anyway thats by the by, its up to Shareholders to make their decision on the 9th September at the AGM.
It would be a very big disappointment if it were to be sold to a private individual UNLESS he was \ turns out to be a pro-active investor in the community and railway going forward?

 

[Shenandoah]

You guess correctly that I have not visited the place - a pity but it is some way off from where I am. But I regularly eat the cheese that is named after the area.
I hope there is an amicable result to this question as it seems that a good many have worked hard for what currently exists and their goodwill is needed for future plans.
We have seem what damage and ridicule can result, viz the West Somerset, from heritage railways internal disputes.. That scenario needs to be avoided if possible.

 

[TBirdFrank]

And where please is it possible to buy shares so as to be a valid participant at the AGM.

I can find no mention of shares currently being on sale anywhere

 

[TheBeard]

It sounds like they are selling it below market price to a mate. Monies raised cfor the extension could nearly clear the loan.

 

[Worf]

It sounds like they are selling it below market price to a mate. Monies raised cfor the extension could nearly clear the loan.

I agree, but I think they have already spent the money raised. There is also a report in the latest Railway Magazine.

 

[Green ayre]

As someone who bought Aysgarth station bonds I didn't do that so a PLC could then sell the station. Once it is sold the railway will never be able to afford to buy the station back.

What happens if the person who buys it suddenly passes away and the family get involved and want the most money possible for it ?

Aysgarth falls is the biggest tourist attraction in the area so will bring people to the station. What if the new owner, once he has laid some track starts to have open days and people go there instead ?

As the railway cannot get into Northallerton I don't see many members of the public getting a train to Northallerton mainline station to then walk to the WR West station (a few enthusiasts might) to then catch an intermittent WR service.

So should there be other decisions such as to abandon that end of the line, concentrate on a small bit and developing Aysgarth station and one day manage to connect the 2 bits ?

A one off sum of money will not enable the railway to survive with all the expenditure required on upgrading crossings, track, station facilities, signalling etc.

Once gone that's it e.g. East Leake station car park.

There only seems to be a vote in person at the AGM. I cannot attend but there have been no voting forms sent in the post. That does not seem right.

 

[Worf]

There only seems to be a vote in person at the AGM. I cannot attend but there have been no voting forms sent in the post. That does not seem right.

There is a Proxy voting form hidden on the inside rear cover on the Accounts. You need to sign it and nominate someone to vote on your behalf (doesnt need to be a shareholder.) You need to get it to them by Thursday morning. If you don't nominate someone, then the Chairman votes on your behalf, and we all know what he will do!!

 

[WensleyDale]

I agree, but I think they have already spent the money raised. There is also a report in the latest Railway Magazine.

It would be interesting to know how the money raised for the Aysgarth Ambition has been spent (if indeed it has). It certainly hasn't been spent on the purpose for which it was raised. One legitimate way of spending the money would have been to secure the Aysgarth site by paying off the loan. Any other use of the money ( I.e. Propping up a failing plc) is in my opinion disingenuous towards those, like myself, who have responded to the appeal.

 

[theblackwatch]

It would be interesting to know how the money raised for the Aysgarth Ambition has been spent (if indeed it has). It certainly hasn't been spent on the purpose for which it was raised.

Are you sure? The purpose of the appeal is detailed at http://www.wensleydalerail.com/donations/ - are you saying it hasn't been spent on any of the items listed?

 

[Worf]

Are you sure? The purpose of the appeal is detailed at http://www.wensleydalerail.com/donations/ - are you saying it hasn't been spent on any of the items listed?

What people think they have been contributing towards is to allow the Railway to reach Aysgarth (hence "Aysgarth Ambition"). Slightly misleading if you are selling off the station!

They are still fund raising for this "ambition"
https://www.justgiving.com/wensleydale-railway

http://www.charitychoice.co.uk/wens...ation-trust-ltd/appeals/aysgarth-ambition/638

Their objectives are also listed here https://www.totalgiving.co.uk/charity/wensleydale-railway-association-trust-limited

I would have thought that the Charities Commission might be interested.

 

[WensleyDale]

Are you sure? The purpose of the appeal is detailed at http://www.wensleydalerail.com/donations/ - are you saying it hasn't been spent on any of the items listed?

I'm saying the "Aysgarth Ambition" is raising funds to extend the line to Aysgarth. The word Aysgarth surely is the key. If both the charity, and the plc it continues to bail out, have decided to sell the intended terminus then surely the "ambition" is no longer achievable.

 

[otto52]

The Just Giving page with the full story is here:
https://www.justgiving.com/campaigns/charity/wensleydale-railway/aysgarth

I quote:
"Your funds will go to 5 key areas
Infrastructure
M.A.R.S (maintenance facility)
Station Improvements
Rolling stock
Aysgarth Extension"

So despite the title the appeal seems to be more general in nature.