Azuma replacement - LNER

Capybara

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I'm not sure if this is the best place to put this but I'll ask anyway.

I booked to travel on a direct train from Harrogate to London. I've had an email from LNER saying that due to ongoing checks on the Azuma, the train I'm travelling on will be a 'different train type'. I've been offered the option of booking on a different train or travelling on the replacement which is unreserved. So I'm wondering what the replacement is likely to be. Or will I get to the station and be told that I should catch a local service to Leeds and hop on the first available London train as I've seen on a couple of occasions pre-COVID? I don't really want to do that. Any ideas?
 
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hexagon789

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I'm not sure if this is the best place to put this but I'll ask anyway.

I booked to travel on a direct train from Harrogate to London. I've had an email from LNER saying that due to ongoing checks on the Azuma, the train I'm travelling on will be a 'different train type'. I've been offered the option of booking on a different train or travelling on the replacement which is unreserved. So I'm wondering what the replacement is likely to be. Or will I get to the station and be told that I should catch a local service to Leeds and hop on the first available London train as I've seen on a couple of occasions pre-COVID? I don't really want to do that. Any ideas?
Nothing else operates the LNER Harrogate services, only bi-mode Azumas. The only other thing I can think of is a short-formed formation working the train.
 

Peter Mugridge

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It could alternatively be a local Northern service to Leeds then a Mk4 set from there to London?
 

_toommm_

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Could it be that instead of a 9-car, it’ll be a 5-car so the seat reservations won’t match?
 

Capybara

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Thanks for the responses. I'm not as out of touch as I thought I might be because those were the options I thought of. I'll have to think about what to do. I'm fully-vaccinated but don't want to find myself cramped closely together with others if I can help it. It's my first long distance trip since August so I'm a bit nervous. I guess it depends on how many passengers change their booking. I'm on a supersaver ticket so I suppose I could always wait until the day and see what the loading is like and seek a last-minute change.
 

DanNCL

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“Different train type” likely refers to a class 91+mark 4 set from Leeds, if it’s a different length of 80x unit it will usually say “different type of Azuma”.
 

Capybara

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“Different train type” likely refers to a class 91+mark 4 set from Leeds, if it’s a different length of 80x unit it will usually say “different type of Azuma”.
The precise words:
When you purchased your ticket, the journey was scheduled to be on an Hitachi Class 800 (Azuma) train. However, due to a number of Hitachi Class 800 trains being taken out of service for ongoing checks as a precautionary measure, we will be using a different train type.

This means that for your booked journey, there will be a different seating layout from the one you originally booked and seat reservations will no longer be in place on this train.
Which leaves it open, I reckon.
 

DanNCL

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The precise words:

Which leaves it open, I reckon.
The wording they usually use if it’s been swapped for a different length of 80x is “a different type of Azuma”, the wording they’ve used in the email they’ve sent you is normally only used when they’ve swapped it for a 91+mark 4 set. Could of course not be the case in this particular instance, but it’s usually a 91+mark 4 set when that wording is used.


Can't be a Class 91... the line to Harrogate isn't wired.
It could be from Leeds to London, has happened several times recently.
 

Capybara

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The wording they usually use if it’s been swapped for a different length of 80x is “a different type of Azuma”, the wording they’ve used in the email they’ve sent you is normally only used when they’ve swapped it for a 91+mark 4 set. Could of course not be the case in this particular instance, but it’s usually a 91+mark 4 set when that wording is used.



It could be from Leeds to London, has happened several times recently.
In the beforetimes when the Azuma was just being introduced it was not unusual for this to happen and you would have to catch the Northern train which left a few minutes earlier. I was always alert to this but I don't know what happened to normal passengers who turned up in time for the scheduled London train but too late for the Northern one. I think I'd probably be happier with the Mark 4 from Leeds option on this occasion.
 

skyhigh

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This is I suspect the correct answer, the 0735 HGT-KGX was cancelled today.
It was cancelled today (well, it started short at Leeds) due to a unit fault - it was planned to be worked from Harrogate as booked.

With the message you received, the Harrogate-KGX direct service is still booked to run, but will be a different formation of Azuma. I suspect it will be 9v10, or 10v9. They have similar numbers of seats, but different layouts so that reservations cannot be directly transferred across. The number of reservations will still be limited, and it should be possible to social distance on board as normal. You just need to find a socially-distanced seat when on board, rather than sit in a seat specified in advance.
 

Capybara

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It was cancelled today (well, it started short at Leeds) due to a unit fault - it was planned to be worked from Harrogate as booked.

With the message you received, the Harrogate-KGX direct service is still booked to run, but will be a different formation of Azuma. I suspect it will be 9v10, or 10v9. They have similar numbers of seats, but different layouts so that reservations cannot be directly transferred across. The number of reservations will still be limited, and it should be possible to social distance on board as normal. You just need to find a socially-distanced seat when on board, rather than sit in a seat specified in advance.
Thanks. I think this is what I was hoping someone would say.
 

Capybara

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Well, the correct answer is that the train was formed of a 5-car set. Not everyone got the email (or got it and took no notice) as there were plenty of people looking for non-existent seats in Harrogate, and the announcements weren't great (and non-existent until Leeds). I guess that some people had changed their reservation and the fact that the change was made over a week ago meant that no new bookings could be taken, because the loading wasn't too bad.

This contrasted with the journey north earlier in the week, where a 5-car unit substituted but there was no advance notice and no announcement until people were on the train, which was uncomfortably busy with some passengers forced to sit next to people who weren't their travelling companions.
 

Capybara

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The same thing happened again this week, though this time two 5-car sets formed the replacement. Unfortunately, though I received the email, it appeared the train crew didn't so there was some confusion before reservations were finally cancelled on leaving Doncaster. But it made for a much more comfortable journey. Incidentally, I assume the message that a seat may be reserved later in the journey simply means that it hadn't been reserved when the reservations were loaded into the system but could, technically, have been reserved later and so it's quite likely that the seat is free? I'm sure this is covered elsewhere in the forum but I'm not a regular.
 

800001

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The same thing happened again this week, though this time two 5-car sets formed the replacement. Unfortunately, though I received the email, it appeared the train crew didn't so there was some confusion before reservations were finally cancelled on leaving Doncaster. But it made for a much more comfortable journey. Incidentally, I assume the message that a seat may be reserved later in the journey simply means that it hadn't been reserved when the reservations were loaded into the system but could, technically, have been reserved later and so it's quite likely that the seat is free? I'm sure this is covered elsewhere in the forum but I'm not a regular.
Seats can still be reserved via App, or ticket office up to 5 minutes before travel.
Train managers are now meant to update the onboard Train Management System just prior to arrival at each station, so the most up-to-date reservation is loaded.
So, a seat marked 'may be reserved later' should then update to the new reservation.
The TMS is not clever enough yet to receive and update automatically.
 

Mcr Warrior

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So you can be in an unreserved seat then find yourself turfed out? Charming!
Is there any way, having boarded a train and finding/occupying an apparently unreserved seat, of then formally reserving it for the remainder of your journey, so that someone else doesn't then reserve it, mid journey?

Or is the risk of being "turfed out" only completely avoided if travelling in an unreserved train/carriage?
 

800001

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Is there any way, having boarded a train and finding/occupying an apparently unreserved seat, of then formally reserving it for the remainder of your journey, so that someone else doesn't then reserve it, mid journey?

Or is the risk of being "turfed out" only completely avoided if travelling in an unreserved train/carriage?
Yes, you reserve it via the App
 

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