Azuma train doors: Closed two minutes before departure, why?

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Bush ranger, 8 Nov 2019 at 17:41.

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  1. Bush ranger

    Bush ranger New Member

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    Why are LNER telling passengers at KGX that train doors on azuma trains will be locked 2 minutes before departure
    Surely it would be easy to operate at the same time frequency as GWR do at Paddington of 40 secs. When we had slam door HSTs they had to be closed manually
    I would suggest that timetables be adjusted to indicate this, but I can see passenger frustration occurring with a train standing for over 80 seconds in a platform but no one can board
     
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  3. greyman42

    greyman42 On Moderation

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    Do they actually lock them 2 minutes before departure? They might just say it to hurry passengers up and dissuade them from cutting it so fine.
     
  4. westv

    westv Established Member

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    It's never 2 mins.
    They say 2 mins to stop passengers dawdling.
     
  5. stj

    stj Member

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    Not bad compared to the doors closing on an Aircraft and take off.
     
  6. davart

    davart Member

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    I suppose they could simply close the doors at the last possible second but ensure they close with the ferocity of Arkwright's till...

    That should sort the dawdlers. Got trapped? Your own fault... :)

    Maybe fitting ultra sharp blades on the edges would deter the 'chancers'?

    Not very PC and certainly wouldn't appease the 'Elf and Safety people, but perhaps might actually work... :)
     
  7. farwest

    farwest Member

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    The time overall seems to be a shambles. Some TOCs say 30 secs some 40 etc etc.
     
  8. newWCMLwatcher

    newWCMLwatcher Member

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    My thought process is that it's at the Train Managers' discretion with guidelines. So maybe 2 minutes is announced but it's 40 seconds real time. As a passenger you know you're always looking at your watch or phone to check if you've moved on the train on time or not, or whether you're still stuck there. We all do it :D Everyone starts tutting when you don't pull away on time. There's a lot of time built into the timetable and some of this helps but I think the vast majority of people just want to get where they're going at the time that's advertised. So, an on time service or once that runs ahead :D

    I do apologise, these are my own thoughts.
     
  9. Cambrian359

    Cambrian359 Member

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    Very good 8-):D
     
  10. 800001

    800001 Member

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    All Lner announced as 2 mins at Kings Cross.

    Services are removed from Information screens 2 minutes before, they pull a barrier across platform, have the platform bell ring and start hustle whistling 2 mins before departure, this helps a with a right time departure, and aims to prevent people running for train as it starts to leave.
     
  11. Max

    Max Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    While you are right about services dropping off the screen, I don't specifically remember barriers being pulled across the platform a full two minutes before departure. Certainly they don't do that on the bridge so it would be possible to circumvent!

     
  12. furnessvale

    furnessvale Established Member

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    All that is totally wrong and very customer unfriendly.

    By all means start the process 2 minutes before WTT departure, but as far as the passenger is concerned boarding should be allowed virtually up to the second the PUBLIC timetable says the train departs. The passenger can then have no complaint when the doors close and actual departure is up to 2 minutes later than he thought.
     
  13. Mark B

    Mark B New Member

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    A very minor complaint, but I don't really agree with this practice. Surely the time published to the public should be the latest time that you can board the train? The rail industry internal timetable may, of course, have other information (e.g. fractional minutes now).
     
  14. Carntyne

    Carntyne Member

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    No, a right time departure is what counts for the majority who arrive on time. If you turn up at train time, the wheels should already be starting to roll.
     
  15. snail

    snail Established Member

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    If I'm sat on a train with an advertised departure time of 1100 I would expect it to leave the station at 1100. Not 1102 after waiting for you to run down the platform, open the doors and get on board. The clue is in the word 'departure'. Maybe the larger stations should follow the airport model and display latest boarding time as well as departure time?
     
  16. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    Where you have an integrated timetable, where trains are carefully timed to connect with each other at interchange points, you can't have trains running early. Because you can't allow trains to leave until all connecting trains have arrived (unless the train is so late it has been decided that not to wait) and everyone has had time to walk between trains.
     
  17. 800001

    800001 Member

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    On the platforms (buffer ends) they have a black strip they pull across, not seen it happen very often.
    Far too often people were running down the platform as train departed.
     
  18. rg177

    rg177 Established Member

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    From experience it means they start blasting their whistles with two minutes to go, doors shut with about one minute to go, rolling about 15 seconds under the minute.

    It also means nearly staggering off the escalator as you break into a sprint after being panicked into thinking they're dispatching the train early (This was a 14:08 with whistles blowing at about 14:05:15 iirc). This was at Kings Cross though where the bottom of the escalator lead straight into a carriage doorway.
     
  19. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    It's very friendly to the significant majority of customers who board with enough time to spare; also to those further up the line who desire their train to be on time.
     
  20. furnessvale

    furnessvale Established Member

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    The train WILL be on time according to the PUBLIC timetable which is what matters to the public.
     
  21. Mark B

    Mark B New Member

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    But why is the departure time of any interest at all to the passenger? Surely what you want to know is
    1. When do I have to leave the place I was (i.e the boarding time)
    2. When will I be at the place I want to be
    Whether that 2 minutes is sat at the platform waiting to depart or half a mile up the line at a signal is of absolutely no interest to most passengers - it is part of the journey time.

    Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that the staff shouldn't close the doors two minutes before they intend the train to leave, if this is necessary, for reliable running, rather just that the public timetable should show the earlier time.

    As to the airport analogy, I would at least be consistent, if unpopular - I would publish the boarding time as the primary (only?) time for the same reason and the arrival time should be the time-at-gate not wheels-down ...
     
  22. Mag_seven

    Mag_seven Established Member

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    Two minutes is excessive (same at Paddington and Euston I believe where they disappear off the boards two minutes prior to departure time as well). One minute is suffice in my opinion.
     
  23. Mark B

    Mark B New Member

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    I'm not sure what this actually gains either, although I'm not against it (my earlier remarks about which time should be published notwithstanding) - either the runner gets on the train before the doors are locked and no-one is delayed, or they don't and they look an idiot waving at the train as the lights go out and it pulls away from the platform...

    Is this a hold-over from unlocked slam doors where you couldn't prevent boarding or is it a case of the railway being more cautious than other industries e.g. buses?

    Or is it because the people running get angry that the train isn't delayed for them?

    Genuinely interested, not just arguing!
     
  24. swills

    swills Established Member

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    But who in their right mind would get to the station 2 mins before it supposed to be leaving ? !
     
  25. joncombe

    joncombe Member

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    Someone running late, perhaps because their journey into London was delayed?
     
  26. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    If they want the doors to be locked so long before the departure them then the public departure times should be brought forward by a minute or two. Easy!

    I think it's a sign that the operator has poor performance and they think that getting trains away a few seconds early is going to make a difference. Of course, it won't. However it will generate much deserved bad publicity for the company.
     
  27. NSEFAN

    NSEFAN Established Member

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    I see nothing wrong in getting slowpokes to hurry up, even if it takes a bit of FUD to scare them into being more punctual. They say the railway would run fine if it wasn't for the passengers. :lol:
     
  28. Ethano92

    Ethano92 Member

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    Indeed I've never understood people who say "get there earlier". On suburban commuter routes with trains every 15 minutes or so, yes a lot of people will get there a few minutes before the train departs purposely but at a terminal, I'd suggest people don't purposely try to walk along massive, crowded Concourse with a minute spare. Rather people have been delayed along their way due to many different reasons and so would still appreciate being able to get on the 15:30 service at 15:29.

    As has already been said, what use is advertising departure times if you aren't allowed to board right up until departure. That's like airports only advertising departure times and putting up posters to say "boarding gates will close xx minutes before departure", unnecessary for the passenger. Of course the time between boarding and departure is very much longer for planes than for trains but they're the same thing essentially.
     
  29. 800001

    800001 Member

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    They don't lock the doors on Azuma, Mk4 or Hst 2 minutes before departure.

    They remove it from screens, start hustle whistling to hurry people along to board, then start despatch procedure about 45 seconds before booked departure, this ensures wheels start turning at correct time.
     
  30. philthetube

    philthetube Established Member

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    2 minutes to close the platform then 40 secs to close the doors sounds reasonable. imagine a family with luggage, pram and three kids arriving 5 secs to departure, by the time they are on board, away you go following a stopper.
     
  31. GW43125

    GW43125 Established Member

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    Except if you've got a dwell of only a minute, you have a train which departs before it arrives...
     
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