Bache-Liverpool

[Deafdoggie]

Hi, My son-in-law is looking at the possibility of commuting Chester-Moorfields (he can use Bache if that makes a difference!) what are the cheapest/best options? He doesn't have a railcard, but does qualify for the 16-25 railcard so could get one.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I'll be interested to see the responses to this. Is it absolutely essential that he go to Moorfields? If Lime Street will do, then this opens up the (hourly?) TfW service via Runcorn as an alternative to the Merseyrail train via Borkenhead.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I see no problem with Lime Street, he is a fit young man! It is out-of-the-box ideas I was after!

 

[M28361M]

Things are a bit more complicated since the service via Runcorn started. The Merseyrail service is more frequent and slightly faster than the TfW service, but on the latter you might get a nicer train - it's booked for a 150 but 158s and 175s turn up quite often.

Merseytravel's Railpass ticket: For an "All Zones" ticket the prices are £1,169 for a year, £116.90 per month or £33.50 per week. This gives travel on all trains within Merseyside plus the extremities of the Merseyrail network to Chester, Ellesmere Port and Ormskirk. Railpass is issued on Walrus smartcard (with a one-off £1 activation fee) at Merseyrail ticket offices, but at Chester I believe they are still issuing paper tickets.

The Railpass is not valid to travel from Chester on the TfW service to Liverpool Lime Street via Runcorn. If you want to use that service, there is a "via Runcorn" season ticket but this is issued to Liverpool Lime Street rather than Liverpool Stations. There is also an "Any Permitted" season which is issued to Liverpool station group and is valid on either route, but is more expensive.

If he is travelling before 10am Mon-Fri, I don't think a Railcard would be useful, as most fares for single/return tickets are below the minimum fare anyway. I am not sure if there are any clever loopholes for this journey, but if anyone can find one, someone on this forum can!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Anytime Day Return from Chester to any station on the Liverpool Loop is 7.80 on Merseyrail via Birkenhead, and 7.50 on TfW via Runcorn (to S Parkway/Lime St only).
With a 16-25 railcard these reduce to 5.15 on ME and 4.95 on TfW.
There are 4tph on the Merseyrail route, calling at all Loop stations, but only 1tph on TfW, calling at South Parkway and Lime St only.
These tickets cannot be interchanged, though there is a higher fare (12.60 or 8.30 with a railcard) which allows you to travel via either route (and via Warrington).
The higher fare also applies, for instance, if you go Chester-Liverpool S Parkway and change there on to Merseyrail to reach Moorfields.
The cheapest route is Chester-Lime St via Runcorn, then walk to Moorfields!
The same fares are charged from Bache on Merseyrail, but Bache-Chester-Runcorn-Lime St on TfW will trigger the higher fare.

Railcards don't work with season tickets, so there is only the full fare.
The 7-day season ticket is 35.50 on ME and 29.30 on TfW.
Merseyrail also has a weekly Railpass on a Walrus card for 33.50.
There are deeper discounts for monthly/annual periods.
On a 5-day travel basis, the weekly season tickets are more expensive than the day tickets with railcard discount , but you have to buy the railcard up front (£30 for 1 year, £70 for 3 years).
Season tickets also avoid the booking office queues (Chester and Bache have ticket machines - Bache is unstaffed and has a tiny car park).
https://www.merseyrail.org/tickets-passes/season-tickets/railpass.aspx

Hope this helps!

PS Sorry, the 16-25 railcard has a minimum fare of £12 Mon-Fri except during July and August (so the date I checked showed the discount!).
So disregard the railcard fares I quoted above.

 

[sonic2009]

I'd consider using the X8 bus between Chester and Liverpool, takes 1hr 20 minutes and is £49.99 for 1 month.

 

[Polarbear]

I'd consider using the X8 bus between Chester and Liverpool, takes 1hr 20 minutes and is £49.99 for 1 month.

Unfortunately, the X8 is being withdrawn as from 1 September. The replacement X1 is a very poor substitute. https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s...and Wirral/Sept 19 Wirral/ServiceX1Sept19.pdf

 

[Djgr]

I would commute from Bache to Moorfields. Merseyrail trains are more frequent than the TfW and offer more flexibility. I personally prefer the Merseyrail trains.
If Bache is a serious option it provides a less stressful commute and offers (I think!) free parking. Parking at Chester General tends to be fraught and expensive.
I would never consider the bus, not least because in rush hours you run a big risk of a big queue getting in and out of the Mersey Tunnel.

 

[Saperstein]

I would commute from Bache to Moorfields. Merseyrail trains are more frequent than the TfW and offer more flexibility. I personally prefer the Merseyrail trains.
If Bache is a serious option it provides a less stressful commute and offers (I think!) free parking. Parking at Chester General tends to be fraught and expensive.
I would never consider the bus, not least because in rush hours you run a big risk of a big queue getting in and out of the Mersey Tunnel.

I would second that and incase of major disruption on the Wirral line Merseyrail tickets are generally accepted on the Tfw service from Chester to Liverpool Lime Street.

Saperstein.

 

[sonic2009]

Unfortunately, the X8 is being withdrawn as from 1 September. The replacement X1 is a very poor substitute. https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s3.amazonaws.com/Timetables/Merseyside/Liverpool and Wirral/Sept 19 Wirral/ServiceX1Sept19.pdf

Well that's something I wasn't aware of. Thanks for that

 

[Deafdoggie]

Thank you to everyone. He can walk to Bache (or Chester, but it is further) so I think that looks like the winner. But thank yo everyone for their contributions so far.

 

[Polarbear]

Thank you to everyone. He can walk to Bache (or Chester, but it is further) so I think that looks like the winner. But thank yo everyone for their contributions so far.

Bache-Moorfields is an easy journey, and for me, the frequency would offset the alternative of going via Chester.

 

[lyndhurst25]

If your son-in-law is prepared to travel early in the mornings, then a £5.40 Saveaway could be used on Merseyrail. They're only barred for journeys starting between 0631 and 0929 Mondays to Fridays, so he could get either the 0555 or 0630 from Chester, or the 0558 from Bache! Is that out-of-the-box enough?

 

[Polarbear]

If your son-in-law is prepared to travel early in the mornings, then a £5.40 Saveaway could be used on Merseyrail. They're only barred for journeys starting between 0631 and 0929 Mondays to Fridays, so he could get either the 0555 or 0630 from Chester, or the 0558 from Bache! Is that out-of-the-box enough?

Yep. Also, the Merseyrail only "Daysaver" which costs 10p less is also available before 06:31, so valid on the 05:58 from Bache. Unlike the Saveaway, this can be purchased from the ticket machine at Bache station, whereas the Saveaway can only be bought at Chester.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Yep. Also, the Merseyrail only "Daysaver" which costs 10p less is also available before 06:31, so valid on the 05:58 from Bache. Unlike the Saveaway, this can be purchased from the ticket machine at Bache station, whereas the Saveaway can only be bought at Chester.

I've never been sure of exactly what the Terms & Conditions of the Merseyrail DaySaver allow with respect to early morning travel. I can't find it on brfares.com, but can find the Family Day Ticket equivalent.

For the DaySaver and Family Day Ticket, Merseyrail's website says that they are valid for travel "excluding peak hours 06.31 - 09.29 Monday - Friday". Does that mean journeys commencing, or any travel at all, between those times?

Whereas brfares.com says for the Family Day Ticket is "Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 and before 09:30". All very confusing.
http://www.brfares.com/#roverdetail?nlc=I259&rvr=MFR

At least the Saveaway has clear a Terms & Conditions, and added benefits for 10p more.

 

[HotelNovember]

I've never been sure of exactly what the Terms & Conditions of the Merseyrail DaySaver allow with respect to early morning travel. I can't find it on brfares.com, but can find the Family Day Ticket equivalent.

For the DaySaver and Family Day Ticket, Merseyrail's website says that they are valid for travel "excluding peak hours 06.31 - 09.29 Monday - Friday". Does that mean journeys commencing, or any travel at all, between those times?

Whereas brfares.com says for the Family Day Ticket is "Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 and before 09:30". All very confusing.
http://www.brfares.com/#roverdetail?nlc=I259&rvr=MFR

At least the Saveaway has clear a Terms & Conditions, and added benefits for 10p more.

Same as the Saveaway, re time restrictions, so it can be used on the 05:58 ex-Bache, as it’s timed before 06:31.

 

[Deafdoggie]

If your son-in-law is prepared to travel early in the mornings, then a £5.40 Saveaway could be used on Merseyrail. They're only barred for journeys starting between 0631 and 0929 Mondays to Fridays, so he could get either the 0555 or 0630 from Chester, or the 0558 from Bache! Is that out-of-the-box enough?

That is out of the box and throwing the box away! But excellent idea.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

If your son-in-law is prepared to get up early, then they could cycle and go through the Birkenhead tunnel:

The byelaws dictate that pedal cycles CAN be used, but only in the Queensway tunnels, and at quite specific times.

You are not allowed to cycle through the Queensway between Monday to Friday from 6am to 8pm, or on Sundays between 8am and 9pm from April 1 to September 30.

That means unless you wish to go on a Saturday, you'll have to either get up very early or take an evening bike ride, or go on a Sunday during the colder months.

(From https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.li...ews/14-laws-using-mersey-tunnels-15107692.amp)

(Actually, cycling isn't a totally impossible idea: Google maps suggests 1hr 24 from Bache to the Liver Building via the ferry. But using a low-frequency boat feels like a good way to combine the exposure of a bicycle with the unreliability of public transport rather than the flexibility of a bike with the convenience of frequent public transport.)

 

[Skie]

The commuter ferry is every 20 minutes, and you get a free cuppa!

It's great in the summer on a bike, but a bit grim in winter.

 

[Djgr]

The commuter ferry is every 20 minutes, and you get a free cuppa!

It's great in the summer on a bike, but a bit grim in winter.

The commuter ferry goes from Seacombe (Wallasey) not Woodside (Birkenhead) so some more cycling. Seriously don't cycle it!

 

[6Gman]

Unfortunately, the X8 is being withdrawn as from 1 September. The replacement X1 is a very poor substitute. https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s3.amazonaws.com/Timetables/Merseyside/Liverpool and Wirral/Sept 19 Wirral/ServiceX1Sept19.pdf

Off-topic, but why do you feel it is "a very poor substitute"?

 

[Polarbear]

Off-topic, but why do you feel it is "a very poor substitute"?

To be fair, the new service is more frequent, including Sunday’s, and provides a Sunday service to parts of Ellesmere Port that haven’t seen anything for years. However, it’s a fair bit slower than the X8 as it is all stops between Ellesmere Port & Eastham, which I suspect will deter a few from using it for longer distance journeys.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

When I lived on the Wirral in the early 60s (I spent a couple of student summers as a conductor for Crosville), the C1 service did Chester-Birkenhead along the A41 in less than an hour, feeding directly into the ferry service at Woodside (all half-hourly), or the train at Hamilton Square.
So typically 75 minutes Chester-Liverpool (calling at Bache).
Things don't seem to have improved, with the X1 taking 90 minutes.
The train (to Woodside) then took about 30 minutes, often with just 2-3 stops at Hooton, Rock Ferry (for the Mersey Railway train) and perhaps Bromborough.

 

[Djgr]

When I lived on the Wirral in the early 60s (I spent a couple of student summers as a conductor for Crosville), the C1 service did Chester-Birkenhead along the A41 in less than an hour, feeding directly into the ferry service at Woodside (all half-hourly), or the train at Hamilton Square.
So typically 75 minutes Chester-Liverpool (calling at Bache).
Things don't seem to have improved, with the X1 taking 90 minutes.
The train (to Woodside) then took about 30 minutes, often with just 2-3 stops at Hooton, Rock Ferry (for the Mersey Railway train) and perhaps Bromborough.

As with a lot of buses a lot of diversions every which way from the straight-line route. One in particular is Cheshire Oaks, which is not accessible by train and will generate much traffic. Buses competing with trains on the Chester-Birkenhead-Liverpool entire route axis is pretty much a lost cause.
Crosville greatly missed, although a Crosville Social Club remains in West Kirby.

 

[kieron]

PS Sorry, the 16-25 railcard has a minimum fare of £12 Mon-Fri except during July and August (so the date I checked showed the discount!).
So disregard the railcard fares I quoted above.

The railcard fares aren't that bad, if Deafdoggie's son-in-law isn't looking at annual season tickets, but is looking at roughly 9am-5pm travel Monday-Friday and expects to still be making the same sort of journey in a year's time.

A 1 month 3 day Chester-Liverpool "via Birkenhead" season ticket costs £148.50, and covers the next 5 weeks at £29.70/week.

An equivalent railcard-discounted return costs £5.15, or £25.75/week (saving £3.95 a week). A 16-25 railcard costs at most £30/year, which would put the payback time at 7-8 weeks travelling 5 days a week. The bank holiday knocks that down a bit (as he could buy a Saveaway or something), as do any odd days off during that period and any other travel using the railcard, whereas a long holiday just after a season ticket expires would increase it.

The cheapest day tickets in the other 10 months of the year may be something like a Penyffordd-Hough Green Multiflex ticket at £42.50 (or £35.42/week). There's no railcard discount available for these, so I'd expect a season ticket to be better value then.