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BAD customer experience on East Midland Train

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tokluo

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Last night (5th Feb 2013) me and my partner travailed from Manchester train station to Sheffield station on East Midland Train via Manchester Piccadilly to Nottingham route.

The train was supposed to depart at 8:43pm but was delayed 18 minutes. As soon as the train arrived we got on the train IMMEDIATELY using the first carriage. After we step on the train we realized there was a food and drink trolley approaching (within couple of meters from us) and it was not possible for us to get trough to any available seating with the 2 luggage we had with us.

We decided to get off the train and use the next carriage to avoid the trolly which was blocking the path. As we got to the next cargo we realized the doors was ready locked and we had to RAN back to the first carriage (which a ticket office was still standing and the doors still open ).

The ticket officer ( a woman officer with no name badge ) immediately got very hostile with us and scolded “DO YOU WANT TO GET ON THE BLOODY TRAIN OR NOT!!).

I replied calmly and explained “We can not get through earlier because there was a trolly blocking our way, we had to ..” before I can finished.

The ticket officer (aggressively): “YOUR DELAYING MY TRAIN! SIT DOWN!”

My partner was ready shaken and shocked at this point and I completely felt degraded and replied back “Don't speak to me this way. this is not the way for any customer service”

The ticket office got even more hostile and threatened to removed me from the train “DO YOU WANT TO GET OFF THIS TRAIN” - (can they even force me off the train because I ask not to speak to me this way?)


Anyways I replied “NO”

Ticket office again scolded “THEN GO SIT DOWN!”

After train started and the same officer came inspect my tickets. After she was satisfied our tickets was valid, she handed back my tickets and again scolded “Next time don't delay my train!!”

This have left us hopeless humiliated, degraded and my partner shaken. Still not fully understand why we was blamed for the train being delayed. The whole ordeal from initially getting on the train and to our finial seating was not longer then 1 minute.

Why is this level of customer service still exists in an organization of this size? Who do I need to get through to in order to have someone investigate the work ethic of this officer? Who do I need to talk to in order for someone to put this officer in disciplinary to avoid this ever happens to any other passengers? How do I get a personally apologies from this officer for her actions?


Please help
 
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Wath Yard

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Is it because the color of our skin is different? Do East Midland Train don't pay any attention to the racist card any more?

I had quite a lot of sympathy for you until you played the Ali G card. If you believe a member of staff acted inappropriately then contact East Midlands Trains' Customer Services.
 

ushawk

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I dont believe that this is a racist incident at all, just poor customer service really. Yes the train was already delayed but it wasnt your fault and the way the conductor (what you mean by ticket officer) treated you isnt right at all.

You should certainly contact East Midlands Trains about it - contact info is on this link - http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/site-information/contact-east-midlands-trains/
 

tokluo

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I had quite a lot of sympathy for you until you played the Ali G card. If you believe a member of staff acted inappropriately then contact East Midlands Trains' Customer Services.

Thank you Wath Yard and ushawk for the comments. It is a bit harsh for me to make this comment after reading back my post, although it certainly did made us felt this way.

I have followed both of your advise and made a complaint to EMT.
 

IanD

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The trolley would have moved as it has wheels so you could have waited and then taken your seats so if, as you say, all the other doors were already closed then your actions would seem to be delaying the train further. No reason for the guard to be overtly rude to you though.
 

Ferret

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To answer one question - no, people don't tend to pay attention to the racist card any more. Usually it makes people roll their eyes......especially when skin colour has nothing to do with the incident.

Apart from that - the trolley is not a fixture, it was not permanently blocking the way. Instead of pressing panic mode, you could just have waited for it to move, then taken your seats. Sure, there's no need for the Guard to lose the plot, although I would still expect a member of staff to point out the error of your ways calmly and inform you as to what a better course of action would be next time!

 

tokluo

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To answer one question - no, people don't tend to pay attention to the racist card any more. Usually it makes people roll their eyes

This is a insensitive comment to make, I do believe all people do shows kindness towards this issue expect for some individuals.

I think you have missed my point of this post. If the member of staff did point out 'the error of my ways' calmly. I would not felt that I have been miss treated, I perhaps would even praise the professionalism of the staff.

Kindly
 

Mugby

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Regardless of the rights or wrongs of this particular incident, it does make you think that it would perhaps be advisable for catering operatives not to do a 'trolley run' whilst the train is passing through a station such as Manchester Piccadilly.
 

Ferret

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This is a insensitive comment to make, I do believe all people do shows kindness towards this issue expect for some individuals.

You asked the question about the racist card. I answered it! Tbh, I find it insensitive to bring racism into a matter that has nothing to do with race. In fact, I find it more than insensitive - I find it reprehensible, disgraceful and I think that those whose first instinct is to cry racism whenever something doesn't go as they wish are disrespecting true victims of racist behaviour. Just so as we're clear on that score;)

I think you have missed my point of this post. If the member of staff did point out 'the error of my ways' calmly. I would not felt that I have been miss treated, I perhaps would even praise the professionalism of the staff.

I haven't missed the point - I note that you have a grievance that may well be legitimate, and aside from your unnecessary panic, I'm reasonably sympathetic to your feelings about the Guard seemingly having a rant, for want of a better description. But, I deplore your attempt to portray it as racism in any way shape of form.


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Regardless of the rights or wrongs of this particular incident, it does make you think that it would perhaps be advisable for catering operatives not to do a 'trolley run' whilst the train is passing through a station such as Manchester Piccadilly.

Ideally they wouldn't, but catering staff don't tend to sign the route and sometimes a run through the train takes longer than you expect - much like a ticket check!

 

ANorthernGuard

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Absolutely terrible customer service. As guards we all have our moments but that is way past the line. glad you made a complaint. If it was me I would have done the same.

 
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142094

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The problem now is that, by playing the race card, it makes you wonder how much of the rest of the event is 'true'.

Recently I saw something similar on a Northern service in the Middlesbrough area - passenger boarded at a staffed station without a ticket, and attempted to buy on board using a railcard. The guard correctly said that he had to pay full price, and to cut a long story short, the passenger accused the guard of being racist.

Suffice to say I sent an email off to Northern praising the guard and giving them details about the journey, just in case that person had made a false complaint.
 

Ferret

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Absolutely terrible customer service. As guards we all have our moments but that is way past the line. glad you made a complaint. If it was me I would have done the same.


I'm inclined to agree with the 'way past the line' take on the Guard's behaviour. Like others have said, it's the playing of the racism card that detracts from the argument. I suspect it's a Guard that was stressed about being late home and took it out on a customer who was being a little daft. Not acceptable of course!


 

tokluo

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Absolutely terrible customer service. As guards we all have our moments but that is way past the line. glad you made a complaint. If it was me I would have done the same.


ANorthernGuard thank you for you understanding. I will avoid travel with EMT in the future.

And to all readers, I am not trying portray this as an racist act if my harsh questions appeared this way and offended anyone especially to Ferret. This post is purely to share my experience and how I felt with you all. It is to point out regardless of any situation this level of customer experience is unacceptable.

To 142094 this is an honest description of the situation. Otherwise I would not have waste anyone time reading my post.

And here I appreciate and thanks all comments
 

ANorthernGuard

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I'm inclined to agree with the 'way past the line' take on the Guard's behaviour. Like others have said, it's the playing of the racism card that detracts from the argument. I suspect it's a Guard that was stressed about being late home and took it out on a customer who was being a little daft. Not acceptable of course!




I have not mentioned that as the very bad customer service happened before that comment was made.
 

142094

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To 142094 this is an honest description of the situation. Otherwise I would not have waste anyone time reading my post.

And there I appreciate and thanks all comments

Unfortunately it is a day to day occurrence on the railways (and any form of transport), and the age-old problem is that we normally only see one side of the story.

A member of staff should never talk to a customer in that way, let me make that clear, but introducing any sort of racial element escalates things a lot further.
 

tokluo

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Unfortunately it is a day to day occurrence on the railways (and any form of transport), and the age-old problem is that we normally only see one side of the story.

A member of staff should never talk to a customer in that way, let me make that clear, but introducing any sort of racial element escalates things a lot further.

I appreciate your view and fully understand this is only one side of the story. If only all train have CCTV cameras install on each carriages. I know that is not possible and sometime both side experience unfair treatment.

Kindly
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
However it wouldn't be a such bad idea to have cameras installed on trains. It will generally improve customer safety and allow all train company to evaluate any complaints more effectively.
 

Prairie_5542

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Tokluo. We have only heard one side of the story. There are two sides to every story. If you have made a complaint to the TOC, this will be investigated by them and the Guard will be asked what happened etc.

In future, I would just stay on the train and wait for the trolley to move past.
Or even ask to be let through.

Maybe the guard thought that you were indecisive of whether you were getting that train or not. Maybe you were obstructing the doors and they couldn't close them until you got out of the way.

Unless we hear all the facts from both sides we can't really make a conclusion.
;)
 

Anon Mouse

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post deleted, I don't want to get involved but do wish to add that that is a case of poor customer service but totally NOT a case of Racisim
 
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soil

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TBH if I complained every time I experienced rudeness I'd never stop complaining.

We have a gateline inspector at my station (Woking) who I've experienced rudeness from a few times, but I don't think it's worth making a scene really.
 

tokluo

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Tokluo. We have only heard one side of the story. There are two sides to every story. If you have made a complaint to the TOC, this will be investigated by them and the Guard will be asked what happened etc.

Yes I will update the result of investigation once I heard from them

In future, I would just stay on the train and wait for the trolley to move past.
Or even ask to be let through.

I will learn from this but will still avoid using EMT.

Maybe the guard thought that you were indecisive of whether you were getting that train or not. Maybe you were obstructing the doors and they couldn't close them until you got out of the way.

Maybe she wasn't sure if we were getting on the train or not but still no need to be aggressive and rude. We were definitely not obstructing any doors or person. This happened in around 1 minutes, we got on, cant get through. try another carriage and got back on again.

Unless we hear all the facts from both sides we can't really make a conclusion.
;)

Appreciated and thank you for the comment
 

soil

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Thats a case of poor customer service but NOT a case of racisim. It boils my p*ss when people play that card, although when somebody does pull that card on me I just love the look of humiliation on their face when I pull out my wallet and show a picture of my Wife.

What's that supposed to prove?

I remember when I was at school we had a boy who was always being racist about people of a South Asian appearance, one of the things he said was 'I don't hate n*****s, but I do hate P***s'.

I agree on your first point, but the 'some of my best friends are x' argument is very weak. http://www.newrepublic.com/article/politics/90059/gop-rick-santorum-best-friend-defense
 

Anon Mouse

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What's that supposed to prove?

I remember when I was at school we had a boy who was always being racist about people of a South Asian appearance, one of the things he said was 'I don't hate n*****s, but I do hate P***s'.

I agree on your first point, but the 'some of my best friends are x' argument is very weak. http://www.newrepublic.com/article/politics/90059/gop-rick-santorum-best-friend-defense

Well how the hell can I be racist when I have chosen to spend the rest of my life with an asian lady? Why do people pull the race card in the first place? Now THAT is a very weak defence that can cause a hell of a lot of trouble but is so easy for someone to use. In fact, I feel that people playing the race card is actually a racist act in itself as it suggests weakness and submissiveness. That is one reason why I belive pidgeon holeing people into racial catergories is totally outdated, stupid and pointless.

Do you realise how upsetting and insulting it is to be branded a racist because you have simply encontered a Travel Irregularity or tackled anti-social behaviour and how distressing it is to be suspended and investigated because of a false allegation of racisim? I thought not...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
sorry for getting on my high horse, thats why I edited my post to avoid getting involved. I hate false accusations of 'isims', be it racial, politital or sexual and I have seen how much damage false accusations can do
 

Ferret

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However it wouldn't be a such bad idea to have cameras installed on trains.

I agree, both from a staff safety point of view and a customer safety point of view. In your case, it wouldn't cover what was said as there'd be no microphone, so I'd urge caution with your remark about the resolution of customer complaints - and from both points of view too.

You as a new poster to this site won't know this, but I'm a Guard for a different company, and I can only call things as I see it, and how I'd like to have handled it. I'd have asked for your ticket, explained that we like to keep trains on time because others in this carriage may have connections to make and that you can also ask the trolley to move to the vestibule so you can get to your seats if need be. I'd have been firm but not condescending (as it sounds like you were spoken to). I mean, sure - the trolley operator (ahem!) may have asked you to wait for them - so be it! No need to panic and dive off the train, and then have to get back on it again at the Guard's local door to avoid missing the train altogether! I'm sure you can probably appreciate now in the cold light of day that you nearly missed the train - the guard could easily have shut the door and left you standing in Manchester! That'd be a real 'Homer Simpson DOH moment'. Travelling is stressful - I get that. Don't make it any more stressful than it needs to be by pressing the panic button when you don't need to;)
 

Anon Mouse

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I agree with Ferret, so don't take my posting the wrong way. It is annoying (from our point of view) when passengers seemingly can't make their mind up about boarding the train but echoing Ferret, I wont have spoken to anyone in that way and would probably (when checking ticket) explain that you nearly missed the train. Sounds like (not really an excuse, I know) that the Guard lost it a little through fustration but not badness (IMO). Take care and don't let this (isolated) incident prevent you from traveling by train again :)
 

Ferret

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post deleted, I don't want to get involved but do wish to add that that is a case of poor customer service but totally NOT a case of Racisim

Why not?! As a society, I feel we should challenge racism, but also challenge those who feel it is acceptable to bring racism into an unrelated matter. If we wish to progress as a society, we should understand that both racism, and claiming racism where none exists is equally wrong. Backing down from an argument because we don't want to get involved just perpetuates the status quo, which in my opinion is akin to turning a blind eye because we lack the courage to confront it. Where would we be if the likes of Nelson Mandela lacked the courage to confront Apartheid?!

End of moan!;) PS, I note your post immediately prior to mine. Much appreciated, and I don't want you to take my paragraph above in a bad way!

As for travelling with EMT - I hope the OP reconsiders. I have many friends who work for that company, and they don't all lose the plot at the slightest inconvenience! One bad experience is not necessarily representative of the company and it's staff overall.
 

GB

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Well how the hell can I be racist when I have chosen to spend the rest of my life with an asian lady?

Because there are different races. I am not for one minute suggesting you are a racist but you could be ok with Asians but hate Africans.
 

Anon Mouse

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I just don't want to get too involved in a debate on the WWW, I've got enough stress at the moment!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Because there are many different races. I am not for one minute suggesting you are a racist but you could be ok with Asians but hate Africans.

Thats a fair point, but I hold no predidice against any race or supposed racial catergory. I really can't see the point and can't see what difference the colour of somebodies skin or ethnicity makes. I just see racisim morally wrong and wish it could be made history
 

Ferret

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Because there are different races. I am not for one minute suggesting you are a racist but you could be ok with Asians but hate Africans.

Do we really need to get into this?! With all due respect, in ancient times, people were burned because they were suspected of maybe being witches! Is talk of some people maybe not liking specific races helpful?!

General open question, probably for a 'meaning of life' type of thread but - will we ever get to a point where the colour of somebody's skin doesn't matter?!
 

Wath Yard

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I just don't want to get too involved in a debate on the WWW,

And nor should you have to. People don't need to walk round with a posse resembling the United Nations to prove they are not racists, and accusing somebody of racism without any foundation is bang out of order.
 
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