Bad day for Liverpool & Newcastle on TPE

[KevinTurvey]

Another day of meltdown at the Liverpool end. TPE managed to run just 3 services this afternoon with a big 3 hour gap in between. This must be costing a fortune in delay repay plus whatever else they get charged.

 

[cuccir]

I'm really struggling to understand what ticket acceptance TPE has in place.

The guard on my XC train leaving Newcastle on Thursday was very clear in announcements (note the plural!) that they don't have ticket acceptenace with TPE

 

[alistairlees]

I travelled from Redcar Central to York and back today.

The 10.07 from Redcar was cancelled, so I got the 11.07. This was almost on time, but pretty busy.

On the way back I was planning to get the 16.39 from York, which was shown as running about 20 minutes before (I checked a few times over the preceding hour and it was always shown as on time and running through to Redcar). On arrival at York station it was shown as cancelled - lack of train crew.

I was travelling on ‘not via Darlington’ tickets but fortunately both CrossCountry and Northern were happy to accept this on a via Darlington journey and even commented on the disruption (in the case of the northern guard), so got back to Redcar only about 10 minutes later than planned. Many other TPE services, eg to Scarborough and Edinburgh / Newcastle, were cancelled too.

So a 100% failure rate for my intended TPE trains today. That’s pretty difficult when these only run hourly and there are no other services (except for the very occasional Grand Central one) on the only route on which my ticket is valid.

If I’d been sure the next TPE train, an hour later, from York to Redcar would run, I might have waited in The Tap in York station, but I didn’t want to take the risk.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

331k really isn't that much for an operation of that size and turnover.

Northerns' TOC MD only got a 172k for a much bigger job. Also FTPE is down at least £100m from the onerous contract provision and thats before the losses they must be ratcheting up with there current problems.

 

[fabs]

How come LNER can introduce a new train fleet with relatively little disruption?

Good question. Although an equally fair question to LNER would be: Would they have had enough crew trained had Hitachi actually delivered on time? And how ‘lucky’ an escape was it?

 

[td97]

I'm lucky that there are alternatives, but the folk of Chester-le-St must be sick.

The Northern am peak extras and pm XC call must be life savers for commuters there.

How come LNER can introduce a new train fleet with relatively little disruption?

They removed services from their timetable. 4 full cancellations and 2 part cancellations.

 

[Bertie the bus]

They removed services from their timetable. 4 full cancellations and 2 part cancellations.

TPE have been cancelling scheduled services and replacing them with training runs for months but they haven't managed it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Learned lessons from GWR? (Reply to #27)

And it's not (for the same reason) the 802s that TPE are having trouble with, is it? It's the CAF kit (cheap as... )

(I say that even given that I was very impressed with the Mk5 interior - but I was also impressed with the Class 175/180 interior, and the Class 230 interior, but none of those are reliable which is the killer)

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I'm really struggling to understand what ticket acceptance TPE has in place.

As I noted in the other thread, when a recent service from Newcastle to Manchester Airport was cancelled due to "a lack of train staff" two minutes before I was due to board it - much to the surprise of the TPE staff waiting for the train themselves - I was explicitly told by LNER staff in the station there would be no ticket acceptance permitted on their services in order to reach York and connect with the next Airport service from Middlesbrough, and that I would either have to buy a new ticket or wait for the TPE service an hour later and hope it ran.

I went for the former option, not wanting to risk missing my flight, and was glad I double-checked.... the aforementioned TPE staff had told those of us awaiting the cancelled train that there would be ticket acceptance, but I asked the LNER staff to be on the safe side.

 

[BeHereNow]

And it's not (for the same reason) the 802s that TPE are having trouble with, is it? It's the CAF kit (cheap as... )

From another thread...

It may interest you to know that out of the new Nova fleets, Class 802 has so far demonstrated a higher failure rate than the Mk5a coaches.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

While I appreciate TPE-only tickets have acceptance problems with other operators, most people will be travelling on generic/interavailable (mostly walk-on) tickets.
TOC-specific tickets are still less than half the total, probably much less (Advances are about 30% nationally).
So while there is understandable frustration with cross-acceptance, there is an easy way round it (unless TPE provides the only service you can use).

 

[PG]

And it's not (for the same reason) the 802s that TPE are having trouble with, is it? It's the CAF kit (cheap as... )

(I say that even given that I was very impressed with the Mk5 interior - but I was also impressed with the Class 175/180 interior, and the Class 230 interior, but none of those are reliable which is the killer)

I was on the 1903 Leeds - Nottingham yesterday, unit 195 007. Lost time enroute with announcement that a problem was being rectified. Seemed to me like we had at least one engine that kept shutting down. Arrived into Sheffield where the very helpful guard ushered us into a waiting 158 to continue the journey.

Impressed with the interior, apart from the accessible toilet which required its door to be manually slid open. However a decent interior doesn't make up for unreliability, hopefully its teething troubles, I guess time will tell.

 

[BeHereNow]

Much better day so far, CaSL down to 30%.

 

[talltim]

331k really isn't that much for a successful operation of that size and turnover.

Fixed that for you

 

[mrmartin]

While I appreciate TPE-only tickets have acceptance problems with other operators, most people will be travelling on generic/interavailable (mostly walk-on) tickets.
TOC-specific tickets are still less than half the total, probably much less (Advances are about 30% nationally).
So while there is understandable frustration with cross-acceptance, there is an easy way round it (unless TPE provides the only service you can use).

The whole point of ticket acceptance is for people with ToC specific tickets! If you have an interavailable tickets obviously you have no problem with ticket acceptance.

My guess is that TPE has a much higher rate of advance/ToC only tickets than other operators. They offer a lot of aggressively priced flows and advance fares. If you want to keep all the £££ by doing that, fine, but you should also be prepared to sort out acceptance (or at very least make it clear and not contradictory even on your own website!) with other operators when things go totally wrong and there are pretty good rail alternatives available on a lot of your network. It's totally ridiculous saying people should be getting rail replacement buses from Preston to Edinburgh for example taking 4+ hours when there is at least 2tph on the route with a load of empty seats.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Advances and own operator walk up on “Inter-City” and major inter-regional flows are way in excess of 30%! Blimey, they would have to be really rubbish to be that low.

That’s part of the problem with accepting tickets. If you are the other operator and expecting heavy traffic on your own services, either through your own dedicated tickets or inter-available, you may not be able to accept the other’s dedicated tickets, even if they are throwing loads of money at you.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

most people will be travelling on generic/interavailable (mostly walk-on) tickets.

(Advances are about 30% nationally).

So while there is understandable frustration with cross-acceptance, there is an easy way round it (unless TPE provides the only service you can use).

The problem is that the vast majority of people using the Newcastle-Airport and Middlesbrough-Airport TPE services in order to reach Manchester Airport will (as with my above account) have booked their train in advance, and hence a rather higher percentage than you imply will fall foul to these issues.

 

[Howardh]

The problem is that the vast majority of people using the Newcastle-Airport and Middlesbrough-Airport TPE services in order to reach Manchester Airport will (as with my above account) have booked their train in advance, and hence a rather higher percentage than you imply will fall foul to these issues.

I think these days that if I lived in the NE and had a flight from Manchester, I would travel the day before and book an overnight if I possibly could, or if I had an evening flights set off about 6am!!
I noticed at Bolton the other evening that TPE's service to Glasgow was cancelled with no later TPE journeys. What would train-specific ticket holders have done in that instance? Taxi to Glasgow? Train to Preston (on Northern) and hoe there's a (then) Virgin to Glasgow and hope your ticket is accepted? What if it isn't?? Would TPE cough up when you send them the ticket and bill??

 

[Foxcover]

Another abandonment of the western end of the transpennine route this Christmas Eve afternoon by TPE - successive trains all afternoon (1224, 1254, 1324, 1354, 1454, 1524, 1624) from MCV to Lime St all cancelled which will have disrupted thousands more seasonal/occasional travellers (although it looks like they did try to run a relief for the 1254)...

I remember the Transport Select Committee, after the Southern woes, saying that franchise performance needed to be scrutinised much more closely in future. Is there any prospect of the First/TPE leadership being called to account for their decisions in front of the same Committee? It would be interesting to hear the discussion about running a profit and loss account vs running a railway, what was inside/outside their control, and in particular if TPE ever discussed with DfT whether they should defer the Scottish extensions, especially when (as TPE say in Modern Railways today) it became clear the overall fleet implementation was going to be squeezed from 28 months down to 9 months?

 

[rg177]

Some wonderful JourneyCheck advice for the cancelled 1930 Edinburgh to York- "catch the next TPE service."

Not only is there not a TPE train after this one, there isn't a train until the 27th!

 

[Clarence Yard]

I think these days that if I lived in the NE and had a flight from Manchester, I would travel the day before and book an overnight if I possibly could, or if I had an evening flights set off about 6am!!
I noticed at Bolton the other evening that TPE's service to Glasgow was cancelled with no later TPE journeys. What would train-specific ticket holders have done in that instance? Taxi to Glasgow? Train to Preston (on Northern) and hoe there's a (then) Virgin to Glasgow and hope your ticket is accepted? What if it isn't?? Would TPE cough up when you send them the ticket and bill??

If they can’t get acceptance on others trains and can’t get you home by their own arrangements (usually taxi) then they should cough up when you present them the bill. That is an industry standard that should always be adhered to, providing the costs are reasonable.

The current situation cannot be doing TPE finances any good (not that I am privy to any such information) as the new (unused) units are accruing cost and, not only have they lost or having to refund all that dedicated revenue, they will have to shell out a lot of their IA revenue to other operators, who will be putting their disputes in to get it and get it they will. It’s a bit of a mess.

By the time any Commons select committee gets going, it will either all be resolved or there will have been “changes”, not that the DfT will want too much public scrutiny of their role in all this chaos.

 

[Bertie the bus]

While I appreciate TPE-only tickets have acceptance problems with other operators, most people will be travelling on generic/interavailable (mostly walk-on) tickets.
TOC-specific tickets are still less than half the total, probably much less (Advances are about 30% nationally).
So while there is understandable frustration with cross-acceptance, there is an easy way round it (unless TPE provides the only service you can use).

When all long distance TOCs actively push and cajole passengers to buy Advance tickets I don’t think it is appropriate to try to pass the blame onto passengers for not buying more expensive any operator ones in case their chosen TOC is unable to provide the service it advertises.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

When all long distance TOCs actively push and cajole passengers to buy Advance tickets I don’t think it is appropriate to try to pass the blame onto passengers for not buying more expensive any operator ones in case their chosen TOC is unable to provide the service it advertises.

Quite - especially when one considers the difference in price between an Airport Advance fare between NCL and MIA for two people with a Two Together Railcard and the equivalent walk-up fare is as much as £80 (our initial tickets were about £25 total, the ones we had to buy subsequently were a shade over £105)

 

[mrmartin]

Some wonderful JourneyCheck advice for the cancelled 1930 Edinburgh to York- "catch the next TPE service."

Not only is there not a TPE train after this one, there isn't a train until the 27th!

Agreed, this is complete nonsense and really shows how poor communication is. The generic advice page tells people to check journeycheck which you'd assume would have some human thought going into each journey and alternatives but it seems not. Defeats the point of having two separate pages for advice.

When all long distance TOCs actively push and cajole passengers to buy Advance tickets I don’t think it is appropriate to try to pass the blame onto passengers for not buying more expensive any operator ones in case their chosen TOC is unable to provide the service it advertises.

Yep - and many of these advances will have been booked weeks/months in advance, so absolutely no idea the timetable was going to collapse in on itself.

 

[Glenn1969]

The only TPE trains to leave Edinburgh today were as follows:

0613, 0627, 0810, 0812, 1212, 1412

The others were all cancelled. No idea how afternoon and evening passengers are supposed to have got to their destinations

 

[mrmartin]

Lot of people complaining that TPE doesn't have ticket acceptance on Avanti, which completely contradicts the website information and extremely long bus journeys instead.

 

[Howardh]

Its ridiculous. Time to pull the plug on this franchising fiasco. But the Tories will never admit privatisation is wrong...on the railways at least.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Lot of people complaining that TPE doesn't have ticket acceptance on Avanti, which completely contradicts the website information and extremely long bus journeys instead.

At Preston at around 1615 I noted an Avanti service on the boards with "TPE tickets are accepted" as a note - definitely no "not". So clearly some sense had kicked in to ensure people didn't get stranded over Christmas.

Still a terribly poor show from TPE though.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

I was on my way home from the match to York, and the 1727 LNER was rammed with first class declassified as far as York.

Fortunately enough NUFC fans piled out at Durham so I got a seat on that train. I had intended getting the cancelled 1819 to Liverpool. Luckily the no 6 bus arrived just as I was leaving Spennymoor after yet another defeat. I then had the nous to change at Northallerton to pick up a Redcar - Manchester Airport train before it got crammed at York or Leeds. The overcrowding beyond Leeds was horrendous. There were hardly any trains from Manchester to Liverpool but luckily there was a late running Leeds-Chester which missed the first part of the run and did a short MCV-CTR working. I eventually had to abort at Hooton due to problems on ME and call out the missus. I’m hoping for a decent refund. I wonder if having to leave 39 mins early counts towards the delay time?

 

[Seehof]

I know someone who took a taxi from York to Manchester Airport recently as a result of TPE cancellations and late running. £100 it cost and they said in future when travelling with the family they would always do that.