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Bad news for Pensioners, Commuters etc in South Yorkshire

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34D

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Blackpool Trams do - although they don't allow free travel in the evening on certain dates during the illuminations.

Blackpool appear to allow welsh, scottish and Irish passholders to travel too. At least, that is what wording on my last trip there suggested
 
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bb21

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There is no provision for accepting Non-English passes according to Blackpool Transport's website. It it were the case then it probably has been withdrawn.
 

pemma

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Blackpool council did say it was spending too much of it's funds raised by council tax on funding free travel for the older holiday makers. That might be part of the reasoning behind the 'heritage' tram tours.
 

Deerfold

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Delighted for the holders of the ENCTS passes who still have retained the acceptance on their passes on the Supertram and their Monday to Friday time of bus travel acceptance is still one to be pleased about

Isn't 0930-2300 the legal minimum?
 

RogerB

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I can see the wisdom of making the ENCTS pass valid after 09:30, I've used mine just after 09:00 and the bus was full with people standing, but I'm a bit miffed about the train bit.

I've used my pass for day trips from Leeds (I live in Sheffield) and this will have to be curtailed now. Northern rail will lose out because they won't get my fares from Leeds, and there were always empty seats on the SHF-LDS train. Perhaps they should bring pressure on the relevant authorities to re-instate the concession, or accept the cards off their own bat.
 

WillPS

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I can see the wisdom of making the ENCTS pass valid after 09:30, I've used mine just after 09:00 and the bus was full with people standing, but I'm a bit miffed about the train bit.

I've used my pass for day trips from Leeds (I live in Sheffield) and this will have to be curtailed now. Northern rail will lose out because they won't get my fares from Leeds, and there were always empty seats on the SHF-LDS train. Perhaps they should bring pressure on the relevant authorities to re-instate the concession, or accept the cards off their own bat.

You could always get a bus and/or pay a fare?
 

RogerB

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^^
A bus trip to Leeds would be horrendous as I'd be limited to local bus services.

As for your other suggestion, I'm not prepared to discuss my financial situation in public.
 

Valenta43123

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In my opinion, as for somebody who works for Northern, I don't believe we will miss much of the subsidy from the ECTS pass. From my point of view the cross border validity of the pass is a pain. Yes trains may be more full, but not with fare paying passengers.

When there has been disruption at Leeds, and passengers for cross-country services are advised to the Northern Rail express service to connect with the Cross-Country services at Sheffield, there has been a real lack of available seats due to most of them been taken up by ECTS pass holders.

99% of who will not give up the seats to passengers that have actually paid and not riding for free.

To keep it on topic, 31st March is the last day SY ECTS passes will be valid on trains service in South Yorkshire or on Northern services between South & West Yorkshire
 

RogerB

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......

I don't believe we will miss much of the subsidy from the ECTS pass......

99% of who will not give up the seats to passengers that have actually paid and not riding for free.

....

When I was a lad it was up to younger passengers to give up their seats to pensioners!

Maybe pass-holders haven't paid, but the TOC gets paid on their behalf.
 

tbtc

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I'm not sure why SYPTE were subsidising South Yorkshire pensioners taking the train to Leeds to spend money there (when West Yorkshire pensioners never had the same free travel to take the train to Meadowhall etc and spend money around here) - I'm not aware of other PTEs/ councils who encourage their pensioners to do likewise (am sure I'll be corrected though)
 

Valenta43123

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Maybe so, but I was informed by a reliable source, that even before this change was announced, that it would not be included as part of the next franchise bid. As it was ruled to be to costly to allow it to continue in it's current form.

At the end of the day the ECTS is a bus pass and so should only be allowed to be used on BUSES!!!
 

bicbasher

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The way some of you are debating ENCTS seems to be that it's full of middle class elderly holidaymakers abusing the system in tourist areas, draining the local council resources.

It's the same with welfare and immigration, people are too quick to see the negative and not how they can benefit society as a whole.

ENCTS and the London Freedom Pass have allowed those who are entitled to go out, see relatives, go shopping etc where as the old concessionary schemes haven't worked as well.

The UK with the exception of Greater London appears to downgrade bus travel, wasn't it a certain Tory who said that people should aspire above using the bus?

I'm not denying the funding system is perfect, however those who agree that ENCTS should be scrapped are playing right into the right-wing policies of the worst government in recent history.
 

WillPS

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I'm not sure why SYPTE were subsidising South Yorkshire pensioners taking the train to Leeds to spend money there (when West Yorkshire pensioners never had the same free travel to take the train to Meadowhall etc and spend money around here) - I'm not aware of other PTEs/ councils who encourage their pensioners to do likewise (am sure I'll be corrected though)
It allowed SY residents to enjoy the extra 333 carriages the PTE pay for!
 

transmanche

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At the end of the day the ECTS is a bus pass and so should only be allowed to be used on BUSES!!!
Whilst non-bus travel outside of Greater London might be discretionary; ENCTS passes issued in London by law have to allow free travel on all TfL services (bus, tube, train and tram).
 

tbtc

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It allowed SY residents to enjoy the extra 333 carriages the PTE pay for!

:lol:

We South Yorkshire tax payers are always happy to subsidise the good people of Leeds...

wasn't it a certain Tory who said that people should aspire above using the bus?

I'm not denying the funding system is perfect, however those who agree that ENCTS should be scrapped are playing right into the right-wing policies of the worst government in recent history

If you mean Maggie then no, it appears to be an urban myth (especially as some people thinks she said "those over 26" and others claim it was "those over 30").

I'm not a fan of this Government, but I don't accept that that means I have to be a fan of the way that SYPTE previously treated concessionary passes - I'm allowed to be sceptical of both.
 

ModernRailways

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At the end of the day the ECTS is a bus pass and so should only be allowed to be used on BUSES!!!

I don't think it should be valid on National Rail, unless that service is paid for by the PTE - for example up here Nexus fund the services between Newcastle and Sunderland.

To me the pass should be valid on all local transport operated by a PTE, however only the bus is free. Other transport - such as Metro - should be charged at a flat yearly rate. All pass holders can get the extra additions of that area, however they must also pay the yearly rate, and for outside residents the price is allowed to be higher but not too significantly, no more than double. For example, I live in Newcastle and buy a Gold Card that allows me travel on the Metro, Ferry and Rail between Newcastle and Sunderland. This costs me £25 a year. If someone from South Yorkshire wanted travel on Metro they would either pay Adult fare, or could pay £35 for a Gold Card. This would be to their benefit if they plan to come back to the area, but if they are just visiting once then it would be more worthwhile to buy a full adult fare.

I think the main thing however, is that Central Government should pay for it and a charge be brought in. Maybe say a £10 admin fee for the card, then all additional fees for other public transport services would go to the local PTE, Central Govt. take a cut out of that though.
 

transmanche

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To me the pass should be valid on all local transport operated by a PTE, however only the bus is free. Other transport - such as Metro - should be charged at a flat yearly rate.
Wouldn't it be cheaper for the PTE if Metro travel was free?

Nexus have to pay the bus companies for ENCTS journeys. But as they own the Metro, any additional 'costs' would be absorbed into the general overheads. (Much as TfL 'absorb' the cost of free child bus travel.)

So on the face of it, it could save money by allowing ENCTS pass holders to use Metro rather than buses.
 

tbtc

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Wouldn't it be cheaper for the PTE if Metro travel was free?

Nexus have to pay the bus companies for ENCTS journeys. But as they own the Metro, any additional 'costs' would be absorbed into the general overheads. (Much as TfL 'absorb' the cost of free child bus travel.)

So on the face of it, it could save money by allowing ENCTS pass holders to use Metro rather than buses.

That sounds like one of the justifications for the FreeBee services in South Yorkshire (it was cheaper for the PTE to pay the full costs of a handful of buses running round central Sheffield/ Rotherham carrying hundreds of pensioners than it was to reimburse bus companies for carrying those hundreds of pensioners on commercial services).

(I'm not saying that this is true, just that its a story I've heard when people have been talking locally about cutting the PTE subsidies)
 

ModernRailways

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Wouldn't it be cheaper for the PTE if Metro travel was free?

Nexus have to pay the bus companies for ENCTS journeys. But as they own the Metro, any additional 'costs' would be absorbed into the general overheads. (Much as TfL 'absorb' the cost of free child bus travel.)

So on the face of it, it could save money by allowing ENCTS pass holders to use Metro rather than buses.

I think the main problem is that DB Regio T&W operate it, maintain the trains and take the money made. Nexus purely maintain the network now. DB do get fined by Nexus for late running and they recently got hit with a £500,000 fine for the back end of last year.

Also, the Metro pass is only valid 0930-2300 same as the buses, although passengers are allowed travel after 2300 because, in Nexus' words, 'it would be better to get them home than leave them stranded'. You can also travel prior to 0930 if you have a Doctors appointment, are in full time education, or have a full time job (over 30 hours/week I believe).
 

lyndhurst25

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Maybe so, but I was informed by a reliable source, that even before this change was announced, that it would not be included as part of the next franchise bid. As it was ruled to be to costly to allow it to continue in it's current form.

At the end of the day the ECTS is a bus pass and so should only be allowed to be used on BUSES!!!

A counter argument to this is as follows.

In the PTE areas there is some effort to plan "integrated" transport, with subsidised heavy and light rail as part of the overall scheme. Consequently where there is a good rail or tram service, then this is not often duplicated as a bus service as well. This is why the bus services between South and West Yorkshire are not that good and presumably one of the reasons why ECTS passes were accepted on the trains.

With these new SYPTE cuts there will be certain journeys within South Yorkshire and into West Yorkshire that will no longer be possible for ECTS pass-holders to do without either using multiple buses or paying full fare on the train.

When WYPTE withdrew their free train travel for pass-holders, it was replaced with a half fare scheme. SYPTE have gone further and withdrawn rail discounts all together. What is the situation regarding train and tram discounts for ECTS pass-holders in the other PTE areas I wonder?
 

RogerB

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Not much though!

Every little helps! :D

Northern Rail gained a little more from me because I have regularly paid for their services from Leeds and Huddersfield.

I would not have considered using trains until I got my pass, the last time I used a train (apart from heritage lines) was over 30 years ago. I'll now have to do the cost/benefit analysis of putting my car back on the road.

It'll be a shame because I love the railways.
 

34D

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A counter argument to this is as follows.

In the PTE areas there is some effort to plan "integrated" transport, with subsidised heavy and light rail as part of the overall scheme. Consequently where there is a good rail or tram service, then this is not often duplicated as a bus service as well. This is why the bus services between South and West Yorkshire are not that good and presumably one of the reasons why ECTS passes were accepted on the trains.

With these new SYPTE cuts there will be certain journeys within South Yorkshire and into West Yorkshire that will no longer be possible for ECTS pass-holders to do without either using multiple buses or paying full fare on the train.

When WYPTE withdrew their free train travel for pass-holders, it was replaced with a half fare scheme. SYPTE have gone further and withdrawn rail discounts all together. What is the situation regarding train and tram discounts for ECTS pass-holders in the other PTE areas I wonder?

The last time there was free travel on trains in WY was the 1980s. Prior to the current half fare, there was a 50p per journey cost iirc.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Every little helps! :D

Northern Rail gained a little more from me because I have regularly paid for their services from Leeds and Huddersfield.

I would not have considered using trains until I got my pass, the last time I used a train (apart from heritage lines) was over 30 years ago. I'll now have to do the cost/benefit analysis of putting my car back on the road.

It'll be a shame because I love the railways.

A bizarre viewpoint. I suggest that paying £10 for a return to Leeds (which may or may not be cheaper if a party offers a Promotion) is a lot cheaper than road tax, MOT work, fuel and parking.

However, a question. Last year there was a trial of allowing people to show an ENCTS pass at a booking office to get a 33% discount. Does anyone know how this developed?
 

RogerB

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A bizarre viewpoint. I suggest that paying £10 for a return to Leeds (which may or may not be cheaper if a party offers a Promotion) is a lot cheaper than road tax, MOT work, fuel and parking.
......

I agree, on the face of it, but for me there are too many ifs & buts to go into here.
 

Deerfold

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The last time there was free travel on trains in WY was the 1980s. Prior to the current half fare, there was a 50p per journey cost iirc.

Unless you're blind, in which case you and a companion can travel free. Which isn't at all well promoted - I've paid for several journeys for me and my wife's Grandmother before I found out (and despite having known about the same offer on buses - though that tends to be less useful as it's usually worth me getting a MetroDay to get to/from her house).
 

brompton rail

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To keep it on topic, 31st March is the last day SY ECTS passes will be valid on trains service in South Yorkshire or on Northern services between South & West Yorkshire

Just to be pedantic, the LAST day for SYPTE passes on trains is Sunday 30th March.

Monday 31st March is the day Northern conductors start saying to pensioners .... " no love, you'r not too early, your too late -passes on trains finished yesterday"!

Personally, as a pass holder, I welcome it. A SY One Day Travel master at £7.20 allows me to catch a bus at any time and then catch the train at any time. No it won't take me to Leeds, but who cares, for another £5.80 I can get a Derbyshire Wayfarer and explore the Peak District etc (buses all day, trains after 0900).
 

34D

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Unless you're blind, in which case you and a companion can travel free. Which isn't at all well promoted - I've paid for several journeys for me and my wife's Grandmother before I found out (and despite having known about the same offer on buses - though that tends to be less useful as it's usually worth me getting a MetroDay to get to/from her house).

Only if the blind person holds a Metro-issued ENCTS blind pass, not all of which have companion entitlement.
 
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