Bakerloo line: an embarrassment to London?

[cactustwirly]

London is a world city, and has a world class transport system, the tube lines are mostly modern and efficient transport systems.

Then we come to the Bakerloo line, which tbh is in a shocking state, almost like a run down eastern European metro. With old clapped out trains with dirty run down stations.
Tonight on my train from Oxford Circus, half the interior lights weren't working. Plus the state of the paintwork of the paintwork of the train was very tatty.

These trains are in desperate need of replacement and the stations in need of a proper refurbishment

 

[jopsuk]

They are

It's not going to happen for many years yet though

 

[Nym]

Because of course, the Piccadilly Line shouts louder thanks to TLL / APJNP's inability to properly maintain a unit that was completely re-wired on refurbishment (unlike D78 stock which wasn't) with a transport authority that doesn't think that doing things like, shifting lines around between eachother with small follow on orders is a better solution than a total fleet replacement.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Regarding the trains, I've always found the Central Line much worse. Although not as old, the trains which I've been on have often been shabby, dark, gloomy and downright unpleasant. Not to mention the amount of newspapers I have seen strewn all over the seats - much more than other lines.

Can't comment on the stations, I'm afraid.

 

[bramling]

London is a world city, and has a world class transport system, the tube lines are mostly modern and efficient transport systems.

Then we come to the Bakerloo line, which tbh is in a shocking state, almost like a run down eastern European metro. With old clapped out trains with dirty run down stations.
Tonight on my train from Oxford Circus, half the interior lights weren't working. Plus the state of the paintwork of the paintwork of the train was very tatty.

These trains are in desperate need of replacement and the stations in need of a proper refurbishment

Better get used it. With things as they are now all bets are off as to how long these trains will last. I’d certainly lay a small wager that they will reach the 2030s.

I do think you’re a little negative. The trains could certainly do with a bit better standard of upkeep, but I don’t see the stations as being any different to the rest of LU. There’s the usual mix of LU refurbished, PPP refurbished, and not much touched, just like that found on all the other lines.

Reliability is more the result of it being a difficult line to operate despite its simplicity on the map, due to two thirds of the line being a metro service and the remainder an inner-suburban branch, and the two have never really gelled together well, despite having been married for very many years.

 

[yorksrob]

These trains are in desperate need of replacement and the stations in need of a proper refurbishment

So long as they don't get rid of the Sherlock Holmes tiles at Baker Street !

 

[yorkie]

The Bakerloo is my favourite line; I find it nostalgic!

(To top off the experience, be sure to do the walking interchange between the LU & NR stations at Elephant & Castle )

 

[BrianW]

London is a world city, and has a world class transport system, the tube lines are mostly modern and efficient transport systems.

Then we come to the Bakerloo line, which tbh is in a shocking state, almost like a run down eastern European metro. With old clapped out trains with dirty run down stations.
Tonight on my train from Oxford Circus, half the interior lights weren't working. Plus the state of the paintwork of the paintwork of the train was very tatty.

These trains are in desperate need of replacement and the stations in need of a proper refurbishment

Ready for some 'shovel-ready levelling up' attention? I can't see anything being done for a long while.
London has had more that its fair share of transport investment, however poorly used, for years; and didn't vote Conservative or for Brexit. Just sayin'

 

[Dstock7080]

So long as they don't get rid of the Sherlock Holmes tiles at Baker Street !

You’ll be hard pushed to find any on the station now!

 

[Bucephalus]

..... I’d certainly lay a small wager that they will reach the 2030s.
...

If they do I'd pay some serious money to ride it as a heritage line.

On the contrary to the thread title, I'd love to see the old rolling stock come back. It would also be nice if TFL took over the Northern City Line and dirtied up the stations a bit! A Stock to Welwin Garden City, yes please.

In all seriousness to the OP, the money clearly isn't there, and wasn't there before the pandemic. Given the even more shocking state of the roads that TFL run, it is understandable in my opinion that a Bakerloo Line upgrade is not top priority.

Yes, London is a world city but its transport system is nowhere near world class anymore

 

[trebor79]

Disagree. It's the most characterful line and I'm pleased as punch it looks likely to be preserved in aspic for a decade or more.

 

[Scotrail12]

I did all of the lines when in London last month and agree that the Bakerloo needs a refresh. The 1972 trains have a nice old feel about them but they are just too dated for modern day use. It cracks me up that in 2020, they still have the "no smoking" roundels in the windows. I also wish that they would replace the announcer on those trains, nowhere near loud or clear enough for me. I also remember issues with the lighting on one.

I can't really visualise new trains on the Bakerloo line though TBH. I guess it's just been 1972 operated for so long that it would be difficult to picture a bright, fast, fresh and up to date train on that route.

 

[yorksrob]

You’ll be hard pushed to find any on the station now!

Oh no, they've not gone

 

[cactustwirly]

Oh no, they've not gone

There's still a few on the Jubilee line platforms.

 

[yorksrob]

There's still a few on the Jubilee line platforms.

Why would they get rid of them, they were brilliant !

 

[BrianW]

Why would they get rid of them, they were brilliant !

Any ideas, Watson?

 

[Ladder23]

The Bakerloo is my favourite line; I find it nostalgic!

(To top off the experience, be sure to do the walking interchange between the LU & NR stations at Elephant & Castle )

Can vouch for this!! I love it

 

[Scotrail12]

Was Bakerloo ever much of a priority for TfL? Whilst the Piccadilly trains are barely younger, they did at least get a decent refurb.

Of all the deep lines, it does feel like Bakerloo is the overlooked one (and maybe W&C but that's a commuter line and barely used otherwise).

 

[deltic]

London is a world city, and has a world class transport system, the tube lines are mostly modern and efficient transport systems.

Then we come to the Bakerloo line, which tbh is in a shocking state, almost like a run down eastern European metro. With old clapped out trains with dirty run down stations.
Tonight on my train from Oxford Circus, half the interior lights weren't working. Plus the state of the paintwork of the paintwork of the train was very tatty.

These trains are in desperate need of replacement and the stations in need of a proper refurbishment

Far better than most lines in New York that other world city - dont personally see much of a problem with the line except the large gap at Waterloo between platform and carriage which presumably will never be solved.

 

[BrianW]

Far better than most lines in New York that other world city - dont personally see much of a problem with the line except the large gap at Waterloo between platform and carriage which presumably will never be solved.

Am I correct in thinking I heard of a death on that platform a few weeks back? Someone fell into the gap? Are there thoughts on how that should be dealt with?

 

[Dstock7080]

except the large gap at Waterloo between platform and carriage which presumably will never be solved.

The new trains, when they arrive, will have much shorter cars and therefore allow slightly wider cars.

 

[birchesgreen]

Better get used it. With things as they are now all bets are off as to how long these trains will last. I’d certainly lay a small wager that they will reach the 2030s.

Not exactly a risky bet, TfL's own plans (with everything going right) doesn't see final replacement until the early 2030s

 

[TFN]

I'm guessing we won't see any improvements until the extension to Lewisham happens (if it happens). Then it becomes a regeneration project where the future Mayor of London will use it as brownie points.

To be honest, comparing it to New York's subways it really isn't bad. The stations are clean and I've never been on a disgustingly dirty train.

Looking at the financial state of TfL, I'll bet on late 2030s for a 72TS replacement.

 

[mmh]

To be honest, comparing it to New York's subways it really isn't bad. The stations are clean and I've never been on a disgustingly dirty train.

It was filthy in the 80s, its a world apart these days, even the Bakerloo isn't so much dirty as just old - and quite pleasantly so, really.

 

[xotGD]

We can be sure that whenever the trains do eventually get replaced the new ones will have less comfortable seats.

 

[Scotrail12]

Late 2030s is a while away - I'm at uni just now but will be nearing 40 by then! I hope they come in the next decade. 72TS stick out now, how on earth will they look in say, 2035?

I do agree on the point about the NYC subway though. Don't like it at all, give me any Tube station, train or line over a ride on the NYC subway. Dirty, no character and kinda creepy.

It was filthy in the 80s, its a world apart these days

I saw some clips on YouTube of the Northern Line in the 80s. YIKES.

Mornington Crescent and Angel before their respective refurbs were hideous. And the Angel lifts kept breaking so they had to always send people up the spiral staircase which was about as high as the Russell Square one. I wonder if much of the old Angel station is remaining.

 

[trebor79]

Late 2030s is a while away - I'm at uni just now but will be nearing 40 by then! I hope they come in the next decade. 72TS stick out now, how on earth will they look in say, 2035?

I do agree on the point about the NYC subway though. Don't like it at all, give me any Tube station, train or line over a ride on the NYC subway. Dirty, no character and kinda creepy.



I saw some clips on YouTube of the Northern Line in the 80s. YIKES.

I can remember sitting on a northern line train and feeling the carriages walls moving relative to the seat. Wooden floor, wooden seat frames, wood panelling. Proper tube train noises too, like a 72 stock train but much louder and more pronounced "grinding" noise from the motors and gearboxes.

Wooden escalators, some with the treads in two halves, and the front half folded over the back half at the end, you could hear a kerclack-kerclack-kerclack as you got near the end, and had to step off before the tread folded.

Jointed track. Noisy and bouncy.

Northern line is completely soulless now.

 

[JonathanH]

Is the Bakerloo line really that bad? I don't think it is an embarassment, it still moves people around London and TfL does appear to have made the right choices over the last decade about the lines which need priority for investment - eg S-stock which has completely changed travel on the sub-surface lines and the Victoria line stock which has enabled an uplift in service.

The 72-stock certainly has a more modern appearance than 59- or 62-stock when it was replaced. I don't really have a problem with it. It is a shame that graffiti removal leads to the tatty look on some coaches.

The Bakerloo line doesn't carry as many people as the other lines so probably has never really been a priority for TfL. I'd argue that the Charing Cross branch of the Northern line is more down at heel than the Bakerloo line.

I imagine that even new stock would make awkward screeching noises approaching Paddington.

 

[Vespa]

I actually enjoy riding the Bakerloo line, I consider it a museum line with heritage stock, loved how the lights flickers even go out completely when going over points and sections, feels like a ghost train ride, it's a bit like going back to the 80s my favourite era

 

[bramling]

Is the Bakerloo line really that bad? I don't think it is an embarassment, it still moves people around London and TfL does appear to have made the right choices over the last decade about the lines which need priority for investment - eg S-stock which has completely changed travel on the sub-surface lines and the Victoria line stock which has enabled an uplift in service.

The 72-stock certainly has a more modern appearance than 59- or 62-stock when it was replaced. I don't really have a problem with it. It is a shame that graffiti removal leads to the tatty look on some coaches.

The Bakerloo line doesn't carry as many people as the other lines so probably has never really been a priority for TfL. I'd argue that the Charing Cross branch of the Northern line is more down at heel than the Bakerloo line.

I imagine that even new stock would make awkward screeching noises approaching Paddington.

It isn’t that bad. I believe passenger surveys don’t underscore these trains compared to others - the Central Line scores worst in that respect (never quite understood that to be honest, I don’t find them bad). The stations are no different to anywhere else on LU.

The signalling is still pretty modern, dating from late 80s. The associated control system will be old in computer terms - can’t remember if this has been upgraded?