Bakerloo Line Extension to Lewisham

Discussion in 'London Underground' started by rebmcr, 31 Jul 2017.

  1. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    TfL have today published their report on the consultations for the BLE.

    tfl.gov.uk/bakerloo-extension

     
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  3. sprunt

    sprunt Member

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  4. bionic

    bionic Member

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    Considering TFL are completely skint, how is this going to be paid for?
     
  5. jacksouth

    jacksouth New Member

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    Yeah, good question...
     
  6. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    Supposedly it has a BCR in the 3.5 range, which might well justify borrowing against its revenue uplift — there's potential to steal quite a bit of Southeastern's inner traffic.

    There's also the inevitable property developer partnerships, and tying it into the Deep Tube Upgrade project.
     
  7. Mikey C

    Mikey C Established Member

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    Completion date brought forward by 2 years to 2029, which is ambitious!
     
  8. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    TfL are about to get a credit reference agency downgrade, apparently, which will mean their interest rate payments will increase. We're already waiting to hear how much the current Crossrail overrun will cost them. I suspect 2029 is pie in the sky.
     
  9. Peter C

    Peter C Member

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    Having looked into this, I can't help but ask why the Bakerloo Line?
    Why can't something like the Overground (or even Jubilee Line at a push) be extended? Seems more reasonable than extending the Bakerloo, seen as the Jubilee and Overground are much closer (on the Tube Map anyway)!
     
  10. Dstock7080

    Dstock7080 Established Member

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    The Bakerloo Line is due a major signalling upgrade and new trains, an ideal opportunity to expand.
     
  11. bionic

    bionic Member

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    Elephant, with its two platforms and cramped layout has never been an ideal terminus. Jubilee and ELL do not have the capacity in their core sections to take on extra trains feeding in from another branch. The Bakerloo upgrade will provide far more capacity in the central area and give the chance to build a suitable southern terminus that can handle an intensive service.
     
  12. LUYMun

    LUYMun Member

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    Considering the East London section of the London Overground could be extended from New Cross to Hayes and Beckham Junction?
    If they need to 'upgrade' the Bakerloo line, why can't they simply add in one or two extra platforms at E&C?
     
  13. JamesRowden

    JamesRowden Established Member

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    The Kent Route study highlighted a future lack of capacity for predicted increases in demand for Southeastern Mainline services to Charing Cross and Cannon Street. Merging the Bakerloo Line and the Hayes branch frees up capacity at Charing Cross / Cannon Street. The East London Line services to New Cross are much shorter and less frequent than the Bakerloo Line service to Elephant & Castle, plus the East London Line doesn't run through Central London.

    The passengers on the Hayes branch said that they didn't like the Bakerloo Line Hayes Line merger idea since they wouldn't have through services to London Bridge and Cannon Street.

    I suspect that the new Southeastern franchise specification has Hayes line services running only to Victoria and Charing Cross off-peak so to change the opinions of passengers on the Hayes Line as to whether they would like it to become part of Bakerloo Line or not, plus to allow the additional 2tph of London-Tonbridge-Ashford services specified in the new franchise.
     
  14. VT 390

    VT 390 Member

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    Even though the Overground is very close at New Cross there is not really he capacity on the Southeastern lines to accommodate the Overground as well (if there was it would be subject to disruption on the whole ELL is there were delays on Southeaster) and there is no space to place new lines in.
    The Jubilee line is quite close however the section between Waterloo and Stratford is overcrowded for most of the day so diverting some services to Lewisham would not be an option especially if a good service level were to operate to Lewisham.
    Also the Bakerloo is one of quieter tube lines (compared to others) so there is more capacity on services.
     
  15. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    Hayes, Clock House and New Beckenham, in particular, are used by many who would also be able to access Bromley South, Kent House and Beckenham Junction respectively if they wanted Victoria. Given the increase from 2 tph to 4 tph on the Orpington to Victoria service a few years ago, I suspect a lot of passengers have transferred already. I've never lived on the Hayes line, but I was within striking distance for a few years, and I'd think if the service level was attractive enough then the Bakerloo idea might well appeal in the areas nearer to central London i.e.up to about New Beckenham, but possibly not so much in the outer area, with the longer journey.
     
  16. Bucephalus

    Bucephalus Member

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    All I will say is, in the midst of looking for somewhere (that we can afford) to live in London, it would have been pretty handy for the 'loo to run further out than e & c. The same applies to the Victoria line at brixton
     
  17. bionic

    bionic Member

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    Somewhere people can afford to live... like Chatham or Dover? :D
     
  18. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    The difference is that the Bakerloo has capacity, in the appropriate peak directions, that an extension can use. The Victoria is very much full at Brixton; a southern extension is therefore not viable
     
  19. Aictos

    Aictos On Moderation

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    However this is why they were looking at extending the Victoria line to Herne Hill in the first place by removing a key critical capacity restriction by eliminating the need for trains to reverse at Brixton.
     
  20. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    They seem to have solved that one by installing faster crossovers and possibly other measures. LU now appears confident that a 2-platform turnback is not the critical factor in setting maximum capacity.
     
  21. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    Quite, they're turning back 36tph in the peaks.
     
  22. Bucephalus

    Bucephalus Member

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    Haha, you're right on the money there. We might as well stay in Manchester tbh!
     
  23. bionic

    bionic Member

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    I would mate. London house prices are the pits. If you don't need to be there then you'd be mad to be there... And I'm speaking as a born and bred Londoner. It's a great city but the housing market is a mugs game.
     
  24. deltic

    deltic Established Member

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    Victoria line has plenty of capacity leaving Brixton- it is from Stockwell and Vauxhall that it is rammed solid
     
  25. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    Either way it isn't worth extending, because most of the passengers from south of Brixton would want to go north of Stockwell, or change at Stockwell onto the Northern which is probably just as busy.
     
  26. Aictos

    Aictos On Moderation

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    However one of the reasons for extending to Herne Hill was also increased connectivity for South Eastern passengers which I believe is a good thing.
     
  27. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    Not forgetting Thameslink! I do wonder, though, how Herne Hill would cope with the Vic terminating there, both from the point of view of the station layout and of the impact on the area. I've known the area for going on sixty years, and my sister lived in Croxted Road for 25 years. Dulwich College Estates exercise a great deal of control on an area that starts a stone's throw from Herne Hill: I remember my sister seeking to replace a garden fence and the unbelievable rigmarole with their bureaucracy!
     

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