Bakerloo Line extension to Watford Junction.

[Mag_seven]

They did this for a while (turning left at Primrose Hill, though I forget where to in the end) when some work was being done a while ago, and passengers slated it. They actually want Euston on proper sized trains.

In my experience most LO services from Watford empty out at Queens park with the passengers continuing their journeys to central London via the Bakerloo line.

 

[matt_world2004]

And nobody takes the Overground from Watford into London today unless they are mad or specifically want to ride on it. But that doesn't mean it serving Watford is pointless - it provides connectivity. People don't just go to London, you know.

Similarly I doubt many will take Crossrail from Reading into London, but that doesn't mean having it serve Reading is pointless.

Had a tfl contractor card not valid on london midland and I took the overground into London from Watford many times.

 

[LU_timetabler]

Had a tfl contractor card not valid on london midland and I took the overground into London from Watford many times.

Well don't know about contractors, but standard TfL staff travel passes are valid Watford Jcn to Euston, or any part thereof, since the (Oyster) computer system can't tell which train you have been on.

 

[LU_timetabler]

In my experience most LO services from Watford empty out at Queens park with the passengers continuing their journeys to central London via the Bakerloo line.

I'd say it is about 50/50 in the morning rush at Queen's Park, as to who stays on and who changes to Bakerloo.

 

[matt_world2004]

Well don't know about contractors, but standard TfL staff travel passes are valid Watford Jcn to Euston, or any part thereof, since the (Oyster) computer system can't tell which train you have been on.

Contractor passes . freedom passes and bus operator passes are not valid on London Midland services to wfj.staff passes were valid on the services to watford junction before overground existed

Contractor cards/freedom passes and bus operator passes use the same technology as oyster.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In my experience most LO services from Watford empty out at Queens park with the passengers continuing their journeys to central London via the Bakerloo line.

I often arrive at Euston on the 0713 from Bletchley, a LO arrives at the same time, and pours out a huge passenger load.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Contractor passes . freedom passes and bus operator passes are not valid on London Midland services to wfj.staff passes were valid on the services to watford junction before overground existed

Contractor cards/freedom passes and bus operator passes use the same technology as oyster.

Staff passes only used to be valid Queens Park to Watford Junction but a reciprocal arrangement allowing mainline staff to travel free on the Bakerloo between Queens Park and Paddington changed that

 

[simple simon]

Could be possible I suppose, this is what my proposal would be -

Highbury & Islington:

Realign NLL so that it takes the northern pair of tracks from Westbourne Road Junction
ELL to take southern pair of tracks and continue 4 tracking as far as Camden Road.



Caledonian Road & Barnsbury:
Reopen platform 1 and add a fourth platform on the other side. Platform 2 would become eastbound ELL and 3 would become westbound NLL.

Camden Road:
Extend four tracking from Westbourne Road Junction as far as here, reconstruct platforms on the northern side of the station. Platforms 1 and 2 would be westbound / eastbound ELL while new platforms 3 and 4 would become westbound and eastbound NLL respectively. Possibility of additional pointwork to allow interworking (ie diverting NLL to Willesden Junction low level via Queen's Park during disruption and for freight / ECS to access the WCML) and reversals.

I like what you suggested.

But with both an enhanced Euston - Watford service and Bakerloos too extending the ELL trains all the way to Watford would be too much (over provision). Far better perhaps for the ELL's to only go as far as Willesden Junction.

This would have worked better had there still been two terminating bay tracks at Willesden Junction. But now that there is only one so only one of the ELL services could terminate here. Although it would require the use of a siding the other ELL service would have to terminate at Primrose Hill. Making it possible to reverse trains here would also offer better resilience in case of delays on the Euston-Watford route.

 

[BS56]

Another problem sending the Bakerloo back to Watford junction might be the signalling. As I recall when the line was re-signalled in 1988 the train stops were removed north of Harrow & Wealdstone BR trains used the new AWS which had been installed. So they would have to retro fit all new train stops along the route ( Not sure what is being installed on the Lewisham extension ) Plus extra signals will be needed as the stations are further apart.
The cost for this would be very high so is unlikely to happen . TFL will very likely wait until they can afford new stock ( Not anytime soon ) and they will be fitted with a new system of signalling . The whole route then will need to be re-signalled which would be a good time to go back to Watford junction.

 

[edwin_m]

Another problem sending the Bakerloo back to Watford junction might be the signalling. As I recall when the line was re-signalled in 1988 the train stops were removed north of Harrow & Wealdstone BR trains used the new AWS which had been installed. So they would have to retro fit all new train stops along the route ( Not sure what is being installed on the Lewisham extension ) Plus extra signals will be needed as the stations are further apart.
The cost for this would be very high so is unlikely to happen . TFL will very likely wait until they can afford new stock ( Not anytime soon ) and they will be fitted with a new system of signalling . The whole route then will need to be re-signalled which would be a good time to go back to Watford junction.

They would need new stock anyway. There aren't anough trains in the existing fleet to extend to Lewisham let alone a longer extension to Watford.

 

[bionic]

( Not sure what is being installed on the Lewisham extension )

Nothing is "being installed on the Lewisham extension" because it's only a proposal.

It's puzzling that people seem to think it's a done deal.

 

[BS56]

I must admit I have not being keeping up with events on the proposed Lewisham extension but the type of signalling they will use is something that will need to be added to the overall cost as most of the current signalling between elephant & castle and Queens park is very likely nearing the end of its working life anyway it will be interesting to see what they come up !

 

[Railguy1]

I don't believe there is real demand to make this worthwhile to do. In particular, when HS2 phase 1 is complete, it is likely the WCML will have more services stop at Watford/Bushey. This makes a potential tube line even less attractive. I can't see it ever happening to be honest.

 

[philthetube]

If it needed more trains it would be much easier to increase the overground service, and as they are both organised by the same lot, TFL, I am sure that would be what happened.

 

[LUYMun]

A personal visit to the former Croxley Green branch line (may or may not be the Met line extension) some time ago revealed to me that housing development on the site of the former Croxley Green LMD had been under construction, so to reopen that would not happen.

 

[mr_jrt]

Indeed. That was used as a waste disposal site for years so housing was inevitable, really.