Barrier Staff at London Bridge rip up valid tickets

[Gareth Marston]

One of my regulars went to Brighton recently with her partner.

Super Off Peak Return from Newtown to Brighton via Shrewsbury and High Wycombe Restriction Code PV.

No problems on way down tickets opened barriers on tube etc. On return tickets wouldn't open barriers at London Bridge Underground. Staff member ripped ticket and told my customers they weren't valid, they protested and dug out journey printout they had from me. Barrier Staff just said they "should go up to Office". Jo said she just bought new underground tickets as they needed to get back. I didn't get full story as she had to catch train to work. She didn't mention having to get new tickets back to Newtown or having any problems between Brighton and London Bridge Mainline.

Shes asking who she should complain to, it sounds like TfL to me but I need to see her again to tie up some loose ends

 

[pemma]

For reference

Restriction Code: PV

The following details applies
to current travel only.

APPLICABLE DAYS

Mondays-Fridays

OUTWARD TRAVEL

Not valid on trains timed to
arrive at London Marylebone or
London Paddington after 04:29
and before 11:30.

Not valid on trains timed to
arrive at Reading after 04:29
and before 11:00.

RETURN TRAVEL

Not valid on trains timed to
depart London Marylebone or
London Paddington after 06:30
and before 08:30, or after
16:00 and before 19:00.

Not valid on trains timed to
depart Reading after 04:29 and
before 09:30, or after 16:30
and before 19:00.

Also

SUPER OFFPEAK R [PV]
From NEWTOWN (POWYS)
To BRIGHTON
Route ✠VIA HIGH WYC&SHR

What time and day did she try to use the tickets? I just wondered whether the barriers at London Bridge might have operated on the above times instead of allowing her to get to London Marylebone or London Paddington for a 08:31 or 19:01 departure.

Also when you say ripped ticket do you mean a small rip preventing it being inserted in to a barrier, or ripped through them? I would expect a guard or ticket inspector to have less of an issue with a ticket with a rip in it, than a ticket in two halves.

I'd say she needs to ask TfL for a full refund on the additional ticket purchased, provided the journey printout was in line with the relevant restriction code and also give TfL as much information as possible about the RPI who tore the ticket and said it wasn't valid. If it wasn't then the vendor is responsible.

 

[Gareth Marston]

For reference



Also


What time and day did she try to use the tickets? I just wondered whether the barriers at London Bridge might have operated on the above times instead of allowing her to get to London Marylebone or London Paddington for a 08:31 or 19:01 departure.

Also when you say ripped ticket do you mean a small rip preventing it being inserted in to a barrier, or ripped through them? I would expect a guard or ticket inspector to have less of an issue with a ticket with a rip in it, than a ticket in two halves.

I'd say she needs to ask TfL for a full refund on the additional ticket purchased, provided the journey printout was in line with the relevant restriction code and also give TfL as much information as possible about the RPI who tore the ticket and said it wasn't valid. If it wasn't then the vendor is responsible.

Ill have to check with her (time and extent of rip) but she had a schedule we provided off Journey Planner via London Bridge.

 

[island]

Can you clarify where/by whom exactly the tickets were ripped? London Bridge Underground staff will in my experience blindly accept anything with the cross symbol and they don’t have a ticket office to which to refer people.

 

[matt_world2004]

Ive known London Underground staff to not accept tickets that are valid at certain stations.one example is a London terminals ticket at stratford .

 

[Haywain]

Ticket acceptance of National Rail tickets at London Underground barriers, I will confidently say, depends purely on the presence of a cross-London marker and is not in any way connected to the time restrictions applied to the ticket.

 

[gray1404]

Also the Network Rule would mean that on this ticket the customer could travel anytime between Brighton and London Terminals and anytime on London Underground to get between London Terminals. A complaint needs to go to Transport for London. I do not believe this ticket should have been ripped. The only time I had a ticket ripped was in the corner when I asked to retain it for delay repay purposes and I had reached the destination printed on my ticket - so I guess this was to try to prevent further travel.

 

[furlong]

Insufficient information of course but here's one possibility: Why would staff, acting reasonably, tear a period return ticket? Because the gate code indicated it had been used already (suggesting the journey was being attempted twice on different days)? How could that happen? Was it inserted into the barrier on the outward journey by mistake?

 

[londonboi198o5]

Ive known London Underground staff to not accept tickets that are valid at certain stations.one example is a London terminals ticket at stratford .

Stratford is not a London terminal.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46587.aspx#terminals

 

[matt_world2004]

Stratford is not a London terminal.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46587.aspx#terminals

No but liverpool street is and you can break your journey at stratford.

 

[londonboi198o5]

No but liverpool street is and you can break your journey at stratford.

To exit you may but to enter no as the ticket London terminals to (station insert) would Nit be valid at Stratford to start your journey

 

[matt_world2004]

To exit you may but to enter no as the ticket London terminals to (station insert) would Nit be valid at Stratford to start your journey

It would be valid to enter providing it's not an advance ticket.

 

[Ianno87]

It would be valid to enter providing it's not an advance ticket.

I've entred and existed Stratford many times on a Cambridge-London Terminals season without question from barrier staff (in 3 years it *never* worked the barriers)

 

[Haywain]

To exit you may but to enter no as the ticket London terminals to (station insert) would Nit be valid at Stratford to start your journey

If you are travelling from Chelmsford to London you can break your journey at Stratford and then continue on to Liverpool Street later, provided that the ticket allows it.

 

[yorkie]

To exit you may but to enter no as the ticket London terminals to (station insert) would Nit be valid at Stratford to start your journey

This is incorrect.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Because the gate code indicated it had been used already (suggesting the journey was being attempted twice on different days)? How could that happen?

I've had barriers give that code before when the ticket 100% hasn't been used at all before (I know because I had just bought it).

 

[Gareth Marston]

Further info from my friend.

She and partner were traveling as per the valid schedule on the printout.
Tickets opened barriers at Brighton no problem.
No problem when checked on board.
Mainline Barriers at London Bridge appeared not be accepting any tickets at all over passengers going past one person who was taking everyone's ticket off them.
NR Barrier staff initially tried to take tickets off my friend and partner who then objected as they needed them for onward journey.
NR Barrier staff then put two small tears in each ticket and said they wern't valid but let them go with tickets!
Problem with Network Rail staff @ London Bridge whom she is complaining to.

TfL staff refused entry to them as tickets were torn, they bought tube tickets.
Chiltern Customer Service endorsed there tickets at Marylebone as valid no further problems.

 

[James H]

Wouldn't the downstairs gateline at London Bridge be Southeastern's responsibility?

I dont think NR look after the gatelines at their major stations.

(Do GTR deal with the gatelines nearest the terminating platforms at London Bridge?)

 

[Nick66]

Wouldn't the downstairs gateline at London Bridge be Southeastern's responsibility?

I dont think NR look after the gatelines at their major stations.

(Do GTR deal with the gatelines nearest the terminating platforms at London Bridge?)

Downstairs gateline is manned by Southeastern, upstairs by GTR

 

[sheff1]

Further info from my friend.

Snip

A rather different story to the one in post #1.

 

[matt_world2004]

Further info from my friend.

She and partner were traveling as per the valid schedule on the printout.
Tickets opened barriers at Brighton no problem.
No problem when checked on board.
Mainline Barriers at London Bridge appeared not be accepting any tickets at all over passengers going past one person who was taking everyone's ticket off them.
NR Barrier staff initially tried to take tickets off my friend and partner who then objected as they needed them for onward journey.
NR Barrier staff then put two small tears in each ticket and said they wern't valid but let them go with tickets!
Problem with Network Rail staff @ London Bridge whom she is complaining to.

TfL staff refused entry to them as tickets were torn, they bought tube tickets.
Chiltern Customer Service endorsed there tickets at Marylebone as valid no further problems.

I dont think tfl are under obligation to accept torn tickets as they are in effect defaced.

 

[AlterEgo]

I dont think tfl are under obligation to accept torn tickets as they are in effect defaced.

A ticket with a small tear isn’t defaced. A defaced ticket would be one that’s been substantially scribbled on.

In any case, the implication in the NRCoT is that any defacing is done by someone other than an agent of the railway. Otherwise a guard punching a hole in the ticket or writing on it would be defacement too, and those actions don’t render a ticket invalid.