Basingstoke (+Stations) - Southampton Airport via Southampton Central

[Lrd]

Hello people,

I have been thinking

If an unsuspecting passenger were traveling to Southampton Airport Parkway and happened to get the once (or twice, not sure) a day XC service from Newcastle to Southampton Central via the Laverstock curve, would they be allowed to carry on up to Southampton Airport Parkway?

Here is the way I see it:

Passenger get's on train bound for Southampton Central, after leaving Basingstoke (point of no return) the Train Manager comes on the PA, saying that the train will not call at Southampton Airport Parkway.

If the passenger were to get a SWT service, they could be seen as over-traveling, or even doubling back (there's at least one XC service that goes fast through Southampton Airport Parkway).

Would their ticket be valid?

What are your views on this?

Many thanks,
Lewis.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Would their ticket be valid?

Which ticket? Permitted routes vary depending on the origin and destination on the ticket...

A quick glance (not thorough!) at the routeing guide shows that this route would be permitted on an Oxford to Southampton Airport Parkway ticket (on map MW), but not on one originating at Reading or Basingstoke.

 

[Eagle]

The thing is, how does the passenger know they're travelling via Salisbury and not doubling back? I think we decided a few weeks ago it's not possible for a passenger to know what route a train takes between two consecutive stations without consulting the non-public WTT (I think the example given was Sheffield to Wakefield via Barnsley or Goldthorpe) and so if a ticket is valid between two stations by any route, then it should be valid by any train which is nonstop between those stations.

Of course the specific example in the OP becomes moot as of the December timetable, as XC stop using this diversion.

 

[swt_passenger]

Wouldn't this hypothetical passenger not realise that the train was non - stop Basingstoke to Southampton Central, from the announcements or PIS before he ever got on the train, and then the TM would advise the change at Basingstoke before arrival at Basingstoke?

The route the train happens to take doesn't seem relevant really, exactly the same 'non-stop' problem arises on the afternoon UP trains if someone inadvertently gets on one at Southampton and expects to get off at the Airport, or Winchester, as it runs through at line speed...

 

[Paul Kelly]

if a ticket is valid between two stations by any route, then it should be valid by any train which is nonstop between those stations.

It is valid between Basingstoke or Reading and Southampton because it is a through train (even though it is neither the shortest route nor a mapped route). But it is not valid between Basingstoke or Reading and Southampton Airport parkway, because it is neither a through train, the shortest route nor a mapped route (but as I said it is a mapped route from Oxford).

However it wouldn't be valid for a journey starting from e.g. Pangbourne or Bramley, changing at Reading/Basingstoke respectively onto a CrossCountry train that was to go via Andover. I can see that being a source of confusion.

 

[John @ home]

However it wouldn't be valid for a journey starting from e.g. Pangbourne or Bramley, changing at Reading/Basingstoke respectively onto a CrossCountry train that was to go via Andover. I can see that being a source of confusion.

Sorry, I am having difficulty with this paragraph. What destination are you assuming is printed on this ticket from Pangbourne or Bramley (Hants)?

 

[Paul Kelly]

Sorry that did get a bit confusing. I was thinking of a ticket with origin Pangbourne and destination Southampton Central. To get to Southampton Central from Pangbourne you would need to change at Reading. If you changed onto one of the XC services that go via Andover, I don't see this as being a permitted route because Reading Group to Southampton Group is only permitted on map BB which doesn't include the route via Andover, and obviously you are not on a through train between PAN and SOU.

I was wrong though where I said that this would apply to all intermediate stations between Oxford/Reading and Reading/Basingstoke - I see now that Didcot is also a routeing point and Didcot to Southampton is permitted on map MW, which does allow travel via Andover. So it only applies to intermediate stations between Didcot/Reading and Reading/Basingstoke. And if the origin on the ticket is Reading or Basingstoke, then the full journey is made on a through train so the route is permitted.

 

[Lrd]

Sorry that did get a bit confusing. I was thinking of a ticket with origin Pangbourne and destination Southampton Central. To get to Southampton Central from Pangbourne you would need to change at Reading. If you changed onto one of the XC services that go via Andover, I don't see this as being a permitted route because Reading Group to Southampton Group is only permitted on map BB which doesn't include the route via Andover, and obviously you are not on a through train between PAN and SOU.

I was wrong though where I said that this would apply to all intermediate stations between Oxford/Reading and Reading/Basingstoke - I see now that Didcot is also a routeing point and Didcot to Southampton is permitted on map MW, which does allow travel via Andover. So it only applies to intermediate stations between Didcot/Reading and Reading/Basingstoke. And if the origin on the ticket is Reading or Basingstoke, then the full journey is made on a through train so the route is permitted.

What about Southampton Airport Parkway though?

 

[Paul Kelly]

The exception for ticket origins of Reading and Basingstoke (due to the through train rule) would not apply to a ticket with destination Southampton Airport Parkway, as that wouldn't be a through train. So I don't believe it's a pemitted route for these origins (as I said in post 2 ). Did you have a particular origin in mind or is it just a hypothetical scenario?

With a ticket origin of Didcot, Oxford and intermediate stations (and presumably points north of Oxford) it is allowed - on map MW, which would also allow travel via Salisbury (changing onto a SWT service at Basingstoke) if you so wished.

 

[Lrd]

It was completely hypothetical, I forgot to check the routing guide, just presumed that as Salisbury is a fair way off course that it wouldn't be "permitted".

Thanks for your replies.