BBC: Coronavirus: UK lockdown solidarity 'starting to fray'

Yew

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An interesting discussion here about the cracks starting to show within our community:

The restrictions of lockdown have fostered a new community spirit in Britain, but there are signs feelings of solidarity and togetherness are already beginning to fragment and fray.

That is the warning from a campaign called Together, which includes the NHS, charities, media groups and employers among its founders.

The organisation helped organise the birthday clap for the health service this month and is launching a national public consultation on how to avoid new community divisions opening up.

But there are expected to be challenging months ahead.

A poll published today suggests people feel the country has become less divided since virus restrictions were imposed.

The survey of 2,000 adults by ICM, conducted during lockdown in May-June, found 45% of those questioned thought Britain had "never been so divided" during their lifetime. A similar poll, conducted just before lockdown in March, found 60% agreeing with the statement.

Asked if the country was "still too focused on what divides us", the poll findings suggest a fall from 70% agreeing in March down to 61% by the end of May.

A similar proportion in the later survey (62%) thought people had "lost the ability to discuss politics without getting angry and abusive".

However, analysis of the polling and other attitudes data has led to warnings that the spirit of unity fostered by the fight against Covid-19 may be dissipating.

"There's a risk that past divides are re-emerging as society starts to re-open," says Jill Rutter, director of strategy at the think tank British Future and author of the Together report.

"The shared experience of lockdown made many people feel more connected to their neighbours and local community. Now that sense of togetherness is starting to fray.

"The good news is that people would rather we kept hold of it."

Prof Robert West from University College London, a member of the behavioural science group which feeds into Sage, said the level of concern people feel about the virus was easing, and was even lower among young people.

He said this level of concern was the "key thing" which encouraged people to take the necessary action to protect their community. "We need to ramp that back up to appropriate levels."

[The article continues]
Though a rather nefarious comment about restarting project fear.
 
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trebor79

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I think it's more just people going back to their usual divisions. COVID doesn't seem to have become as politicised here as in the USA for example.
I don't think we'll see really cracks until people start to get fed up of the masks, waiting in the rain to get into the supermarket and pushing back against nonsensical "rules".
From what I've seen it's impossible to get a dental appointment for anything other than I dire emergency. Proper face to face doctors appointments similarly likes hens teeth with Hancock suggesting this is a good thing and we shouldn't go back.
Cuts in front line services. People are going to start noticing that the things they've taken for granted all their lives are gone or going. I don't think it's a massive leap to forsee some social disorder in the next year or so, it will just need enough simmering resentment and then a trigger.
If schools don't go back in September, or if there's some stupid fudge with "blended learning" that could well be a trigger.

I'm formyl of the view that we should just crack on with life. There was a Spanish doctor on TV the other night talking about the siege in cases "Almost all of them are asymptomatic. Young people who are well, and we test them and they are positive". My thought is "Well so what?". So long as the vulnerable and elderly are shielded from it, let it rip and be done with it.
 

Mogster

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I think it's more just people going back to their usual divisions. COVID doesn't seem to have become as politicised here as in the USA for example.
I don't think we'll see really cracks until people start to get fed up of the masks, waiting in the rain to get into the supermarket and pushing back against nonsensical "rules".
From what I've seen it's impossible to get a dental appointment for anything other than I dire emergency. Proper face to face doctors appointments similarly likes hens teeth with Hancock suggesting this is a good thing and we shouldn't go back.
Cuts in front line services. People are going to start noticing that the things they've taken for granted all their lives are gone or going. I don't think it's a massive leap to forsee some social disorder in the next year or so, it will just need enough simmering resentment and then a trigger.
If schools don't go back in September, or if there's some stupid fudge with "blended learning" that could well be a trigger.

I'm formyl of the view that we should just crack on with life. There was a Spanish doctor on TV the other night talking about the siege in cases "Almost all of them are asymptomatic. Young people who are well, and we test them and they are positive". My thought is "Well so what?". So long as the vulnerable and elderly are shielded from it, let it rip and be done with it.
I would agree to a point but the recent rise in excess deaths in Spain and Portugal are concerning, well outside normal range. That’s why Chris Whitty is bending Boris’s ear. Excess deaths quickly result in overflowing hospitals.
 

bramling

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I think it's more just people going back to their usual divisions. COVID doesn't seem to have become as politicised here as in the USA for example.
I don't think we'll see really cracks until people start to get fed up of the masks, waiting in the rain to get into the supermarket and pushing back against nonsensical "rules".
From what I've seen it's impossible to get a dental appointment for anything other than I dire emergency. Proper face to face doctors appointments similarly likes hens teeth with Hancock suggesting this is a good thing and we shouldn't go back.
Cuts in front line services. People are going to start noticing that the things they've taken for granted all their lives are gone or going. I don't think it's a massive leap to forsee some social disorder in the next year or so, it will just need enough simmering resentment and then a trigger.
If schools don't go back in September, or if there's some stupid fudge with "blended learning" that could well be a trigger.

I'm formyl of the view that we should just crack on with life. There was a Spanish doctor on TV the other night talking about the siege in cases "Almost all of them are asymptomatic. Young people who are well, and we test them and they are positive". My thought is "Well so what?". So long as the vulnerable and elderly are shielded from it, let it rip and be done with it.
There's a big division opening up over furloughing, which has become increasingly toxic over time - not surprising as more people return to work.

I very much agree that the schools *need* to fully go back in September, come what may. I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be much going on in this respect, though hopefully there's stuff very much going on behind the scenes. Gavin Williamson is conspicuous by his absence, which doesn't exactly inspire confidence. We absolutely cannot have a generation whose learning and development is so badly impacted.
 

CaptainHaddock

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Perhaps not in the strictest sense, but we still face lots of restrictions on our lives, and normal events and activities are still forbidden.
I"m not so sure. What normal events and activities can't you do at present? As in what's forbidden by law rather than what you're not advised to do.
 

MikeWM

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I"m not so sure. What normal events and activities can't you do at present? As in what's forbidden by law rather than what you're not advised to do.
Peaceful protests are still effectively banned (if of more than 30 people). That's a rather major infringement, though perhaps not everyone counts it as a normal activity :)
 

matt_world2004

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I'm getting quite resentful that my colleagues who have been furloughed are allowed to go abroad and I am not because I volunteered to continue working. That's a potential flashpoint or similar things in workplaces that can create divisions.
 

Bletchleyite

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I'm getting quite resentful that my colleagues who have been furloughed are allowed to go abroad and I am not because I volunteered to continue working. That's a potential flashpoint or similar things in workplaces that can create divisions.
Are you contractually required not to go abroad? This would probably be seen as an unfair term, though if you had to self-isolate I guess you'd need to take it unpaid or as annual leave.

Though TBH I think it's highly imprudent to go abroad at the moment.
 

matt_world2004

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Are you contractually required not to go abroad? This would probably be seen as an unfair term, though if you had to self-isolate I guess you'd need to take it unpaid or as annual leave.

Though TBH I think it's highly imprudent to go abroad at the moment.
Basically if we go abroad even if the circumstances change while we are abroad and are required to self isolate when we get back either 1.) Unpaid leave, 2) annual leave for the isolation period 3 ) disciplinary action depending on how much disruption it causes to the business if we are required to isolate for 14 days.

I am particularly resentful as the boss who decimated my terms and conditions last year is allowed to go abroad because he works from home and that's fuelling the resentment a bit.

Also we are being required to take some annual leave to spread it out. As people are not taking annual leave because of not being able to go abroad.

Generally my employer has been very good during the coronavirus crisis but the fractures are showing on this one.
 

Yew

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I"m not so sure. What normal events and activities can't you do at present? As in what's forbidden by law rather than what you're not advised to do.
I'd like them to stop the incessant scaremongering, so that I can have normal relationships with friends (not having to bother about 2m), and those friends who are terrified to go out aren't unnecessarily scared.
 

Bletchleyite

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I am particularly resentful as the boss who decimated my terms and conditions last year is allowed to go abroad because he works from home and that's fuelling the resentment a bit.
That seems unfair. Is it possible (physically) for you to work from home? I do think management should be setting an example even if not legally required.

Also we are being required to take some annual leave to spread it out. As people are not taking annual leave because of not being able to go abroad.
Same for us. I don't think that in itself is unreasonable, and while most clerical type jobs let you take your leave when you like it's in most peoples' contracts that they can specify if they want.
 

matt_world2004

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That seems unfair. Is it possible (physically) for you to work from home? I do think management should be setting an example even if not legally required.
Operational role so no, the boss who works from home is two grades up the pyramid so to speak . But they were the one who set the renumeration .

I don't mind being required to take holiday within a certain time period. It's being required to take it and then not being allowed to use it to go abroad (while others are)
 

Bayum

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Basically if we go abroad even if the circumstances change while we are abroad and are required to self isolate when we get back either 1.) Unpaid leave, 2) annual leave for the isolation period 3 ) disciplinary action depending on how much disruption it causes to the business if we are required to isolate for 14 days.

I am particularly resentful as the boss who decimated my terms and conditions last year is allowed to go abroad because he works from home and that's fuelling the resentment a bit.

Also we are being required to take some annual leave to spread it out. As people are not taking annual leave because of not being able to go abroad.

Generally my employer has been very good during the coronavirus crisis but the fractures are showing on this one.
That’s interesting. I know a lot of furloughed folk have been told they need to be able to return to work with a minimum of 48hrs notice.
 

Ianno87

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Cannot agree more from a service point of view. These trains have transformed the mainline and regional services. I do remember being crammed on a 153 to Greast Yarmouth - not nice at all.
The 37 hauled/propelled short set was fun from a visual and aural point of view - but those old Mk2's were not very comfy and quite old and dirty - inside and out. But made a nice change from the 156's.

I'm assuming the 'enthusiast' community misses the variety of traction that you used to be able to see at places like Norwich. Now it truly is Stadler land with the punctuated by the odd pair of 321's and EMR DMU's normally 158's and the odd 156.
I'm getting quite resentful that my colleagues who have been furloughed are allowed to go abroad and I am not because I volunteered to continue working. That's a potential flashpoint or similar things in workplaces that can create divisions.
Are you contractually required not to go abroad? This would probably be seen as an unfair term, though if you had to self-isolate I guess you'd need to take it unpaid or as annual leave.

Though TBH I think it's highly imprudent to go abroad at the moment.
That’s interesting. I know a lot of furloughed folk have been told they need to be able to return to work with a minimum of 48hrs notice.
Yes, risky going on holiday when furloughed...you must return when required by your employer, possibly at very short notice.
 

scotrail158713

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Parkrun is allowed if a risk assessment is conducted.
At present a gathering of more than 30 people is not allowed. I believe there is a plan afoot to change this for specific types of event like Parkrun and they are looking at it with a view to restarting soon.
Pre-covid I’d go most weeks to my local parkrun (note the lower case ‘p’ as it’s a brand name - it really gets on some parkrun enthusiasts nerves if you put it in upper case :)). Along with no football, it’s probably been the thing I’ve missed most.
However I have to say the global parkrun organisation have handled it pretty well. There’s been a weekly update on parkrun.com every week since mid-March which keeps everyone up to date with what’s happening.
This week’s update was interesting though as initially all UK events were going to restart together. However they’ve now said the 4 individual nations may restart when allowed because guidance varies so much between the nations. This annoyingly means I may be waiting longer to return to parkrun than runners down south - even though virus levels are much lower up here.
 

Crossover

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Though to be fair this can't be in the first 3 weeks, as that's the minimum. Though I suppose your employer could call you back under that and just not claim the furlough payments.
No longer the case. A business can furlough employees at will with no minimums - this changed on July 1st. However, an employee can also only now be furloughed at all if they had completed 3 weeks of furlough by the above date
 

takno

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Pre-covid I’d go most weeks to my local parkrun (note the lower case ‘p’ as it’s a brand name - it really gets on some parkrun enthusiasts nerves if you put it in upper case :)). Along with no football, it’s probably been the thing I’ve missed most.
However I have to say the global parkrun organisation have handled it pretty well. There’s been a weekly update on parkrun.com every week since mid-March which keeps everyone up to date with what’s happening.
This week’s update was interesting though as initially all UK events were going to restart together. However they’ve now said the 4 individual nations may restart when allowed because guidance varies so much between the nations. This annoyingly means I may be waiting longer to return to parkrun than runners down south - even though virus levels are much lower up here.
There's no chance of anything extra opening up here until the schools are back in, purely because it's politically impossible not to open them, and if you have to do so in the face of rising numbers then all the claims of consistency and making the hard choices are completely shot
 

Camden

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I'd like them to stop the incessant scaremongering, so that I can have normal relationships with friends (not having to bother about 2m), and those friends who are terrified to go out aren't unnecessarily scared.
It's very bold of you to say "unnecessary". I dare say that kind of sentiment is a driver behind the rise in cases and deaths we're seeing.

If it was just you that it affects then as long as you were willing to forgo free NHS care and willing to accept that even your paid care might still be prioritised below that of someone who cooperated (the only reasonable proposition) then I'd say go for it. But it's not that simple.

People are being asked, often for the first time in their lives, to make temporary sacrifices to keep others safe. Including protecting the ability of the NHS to treat other life threatening conditions and injuries.

If people really are so emotionally incontinent these days that they simply cannot bear to forgo gatherings and parties for a while (when others are paying in jobs) then I don't see the point of carrying on having things like welfare, NHS and so on. These are collective endeavours for the good of all. Why should we all pay handsomely to keep the irresponsible in healthcare, instead of just looking out for ourselves. That's the logical endpoint of a perspective that places all emphasis on own wants.
 

Bantamzen

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I've already alluded to it in the specific thread about the further restrictions in the North of England, but anger is rapidly growing here this morning. Sadly this government has deliberately chosen the festival of Eid al-adha (almost to the minute in fact) to impose more restrictions on people because they seem to have some "intelligence" that people in certain areas are not adhering to distancing in their own homes. This is already sparking a firestorm on social media as the closet racists are already crawling out from under their rocks, and causing a lot of upset & fury not only amongst ethnic groups, but from those of us who do not judge people on their skin colour or chosen religious beliefs.

And this is frightening, because back in 2001 here in Bradford this was exactly the sort of tension that grew & exploded into the terrifying riots that ripped a huge hole in the city. Worse still part of me now actually believes that this is deliberate.
 

philosopher

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I've already alluded to it in the specific thread about the further restrictions in the North of England, but anger is rapidly growing here this morning. Sadly this government has deliberately chosen the festival of Eid al-adha (almost to the minute in fact) to impose more restrictions on people because they seem to have some "intelligence" that people in certain areas are not adhering to distancing in their own homes. This is already sparking a firestorm on social media as the closet racists are already crawling out from under their rocks, and causing a lot of upset & fury not only amongst ethnic groups, but from those of us who do not judge people on their skin colour or chosen religious beliefs.
Given the actions just taken in North of England, I know it is some way off, but I do wonder if on the 23rd or 24th December they will suddenly announce either locally or nationally you can’t visit people indoors. If they do I can’t imagine that going down too well.
 

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