BBC report on Overcrowding on Tarka Line services

[TEW]

I've just had a look at the timetable and count four services on Summer Saturdays from London to Paignton of which three call at Teignmouth and Dawlish. The nomal weekday service is three trains. The 2000 timetable shows 5 trains from London to Paignton calling at Dawlish and Teignmouth and a Plymouth train calling at Dawlish and Teignmouth giving a total of six calling at those two stations. Cross Country these days run four services to Paignton on Summer Saturdays (normal timetables is three) compared to nine in 2000. There are also the SWT services from Southampton and Brighton to Paignton so it's much closer to a normal timetable these days although there are some additional trains, it's not on the scale it used to be.

When comparing with the normal timetable though you should also compare the timing of the trains. The services on Summer Saturdays to Paignton run more in the daytime whereas on other days a lot of Paignton's extra services run in the morning or evening.

 

[Tremaine]

Good morning. New to the Forums, I live in Barnstaple. This is my first post. With regard to this service from Barnstaple, I have to say the staff are generally friendly and helpful. When trains are either very late or cancelled, there's usually no hesitation in getting us in to Taxis. Believe me, there are much worse rail services. On the other hand, the Tarka line has been criticized for its poor quality rolling stock and overcrowding. At peak times as a regular traveller, I have to agree. The North Devon Public Transport Users group said "“It is absurd that a population in excess of 100,000 in North Devon only has a train service that takes well over an hour to travel the 39 miles to Exeter, on poor-quality rolling stock which is all too often severely overcrowded”. Once again as regular travellers, many of us would like to see hourly services on better rolling stock. And more frequent evening services.

 

[185]

Tarka Line's problem is partly rolling stock quality, partly due to operating an all-stops service.

Noticeably, large gaps also exist in the afternoon of just under two hours.

In the AM peak there is a 0700 all stops, takes 1hr 5 mins.
There's also an 0843, totally useless for commuters.
May be a need for a 0750~ semi-fast?

There is a genuine need for a couple of limited-stop services in the two rush hours, but with the current franchise holder, that's not going to happen. Flat out, it's timetabled without stops for 55 minutes. The infrastructure is a big issue affecting speed.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Tarka Line's problem is partly rolling stock quality, partly due to operating an all-stops service.

Noticeably, large gaps also exist in the afternoon of just under two hours.

In the AM peak there is a 0700 all stops, takes 1hr 5 mins.
There's also an 0843, totally useless for commuters.
May be a need for a 0750~ semi-fast?

There is a genuine need for a couple of limited-stop services in the two rush hours, but with the current franchise holder, that's not going to happen. Flat out, it's timetabled without stops for 55 minutes. The infrastructure is a big issue affecting speed.

I think that is a bit unfair on the franchise holder. There are host of other issues at play here, including infrastructure and availability of rolling stock. FGW has been quite good to the branch lines in recent years and I am pretty sure that the omission of desirable trains isn't just down to bloody mindedness - I'll be pretty sure that lack of rolling stock and infrastructure are particular issues that will play a significant part.

 

[Tremaine]

Is anyone able to tell us who would be responsible for upgrading the existing Tarka Line rolling stock, between Exeter and Barnstaple? I recall a conversation with staff at Exeter and the upshot was that "they won't be bringing in better rolling stock ". What would the operator say to accusations that their Tarka Line service, over all, falls well below the national average. I wonder. Because without meaning offence, as a regular passenger the Tarka Line really isn't great.

 

[swt_passenger]

Is anyone able to tell us who would be responsible for upgrading the existing Tarka Line rolling stock, between Exeter and Barnstaple? I recall a conversation with staff at Exeter and the upshot was that "they won't be bringing in better rolling stock ". What would the operator say to accusations that their Tarka Line service, over all, falls well below the national average. I wonder. Because without meaning offence, as a regular passenger the Tarka Line really isn't great.

But if you acknowledge the concept of a national average for condition of rolling stock, you must also realise that with a typical in-service life of 30-40 years every route cannot have new stock at the same time.

Nevertheless, electrifcation of the Thames Valley branches could very likely result in a cascade of newer rolling stock in your area over the next few years, but it is highly unlikely that brand new stock will be provided for any DMU operated line in the medium term.

 

[F Great Eastern]

There is a genuine need for a couple of limited-stop services in the two rush hours, but with the current franchise holder, that's not going to happen. Flat out, it's timetabled without stops for 55 minutes. The infrastructure is a big issue affecting speed.

Yeah, because there are so many spare DMU's that are just sitting around aren't there? And of course it has nothing to do with the infrastructure and the canned DMU order.

I keep seeing lots of people moan about the FGW local lines stock, but it's pretty much that or nothing due to the shortages of DMU's, if First went for nothing they would get moaned for cutting or short forming services, but if they use the limited stock that is around they're moaned at the fact it is too old.

 

[HullMichael]

I was on holiday in the south west in June and travelled on the Tarka line for the first time. On a Friday I took the 09.27 from Exeter. The train was only lightly loaded and the journey was very pleasant. Taking the return at 10.43 the train was absolutely packed to bursting point from Barnstaple. Standing all the way down the two coach set and all the doorways crammed with people forced up against the doors themselves. The guard was marooned at one end and had no chance of checking tickets, at each station new passengers were met with a wall of standing people when the doors opened. At one station the guard managed to get off, and asked those people up against the doors to get off (!) so he could get more people down the aisles, before asking existing and new passengers to get on.

I've been on plenty of crammed trains before, but this was probably the worst I've ever seen, comparable with the London Underground at peak time. Full marks to the guard who did his best in a cheerful manner in very difficult circumstances.

As I saw myself, not every service on this line will be like this, but obviously some are. Maybe someone who travels the line regularly could give some insight. Are there any particular times of the day when demand is very high? The 10.43 from Barnstaple can hardly be called peak time.

 

[LE Greys]

As I see it, the railway simply can't be adaptable enough to deal with such pinch-points, because having enough excess stock to cope with them would push costs up. The Tarka Line appears to be a victim of its own success. If it is a typical representitive of all the Devon branches, then clearly it would make sense to increase stock levels. If not, then probably the best way would be to increase service frequency, but I expect that needs more engineering work. If they can fund it, I reckon it would pay its way.

 

[Kali]

I think the Barns-Taunton line was in need of a bit more work, but still - neither of them really go through anywhere noteworthy ( well not at the time ), and the line to Meldon would have stayed open anyway so there could have been a peak hour shuttle to Crediton still. The stupidity was shutting Ilfracombe off & not mothballing round the coast to Bideford, but different times.

The last time I went up there the stock was 5 Mk1s and a 33 ( and it was almost empty ), different times indeed. That's a long route to try and keep seat occupancy up without overcrowding at times, perhaps there's a need for a stabling point at Barnstaple?

 

[DavidBrown]

The main problem for the Tarka Line, as others have mentioned, is infrastructure. There's several problems here;

- The passing places at Eggesford and Crediton only allow for an hourly service, and so even if the rolling stock was there for a half-hourly service, the line can't take them. It does mean that, apart from the occasional gap of up to 90 minutes, and Sunday services, the line is running at 100% capacity. You cannot physically put any more trains on it, so in that respect FGW have done the very, very best they can.

- Two open level crossings, at Umberleigh and Salmonpool (near Crediton) cause trains to slow to a crawl. Not such a problem at Umberleigh where almost all trains are stopping anyway, plus the line speed is only 35mph. But at Salmonpool, the line speed is 70mph, so the time penalty for having to slow down to 20mph for the level crossing is severe.

- Condition of the track. Particularly north of Copplestone, where the line speed drops from 70mph down to 55mph for almost the rest of the journey. The old jointed track was particularly noticable on the 142's, and although thankfully even the 143s make for a smoother ride, it doesn't up the speed they can do. Thankfull, 10 miles of the old track are being replaced this winter, and I believe (though I haven't seen any official sources yet) that this may mean an increase from 55mph between Eggesford and Portsmouth Arms. One area that does need doing is between Chapelton and Barnstaple where the line speed is currently 60mph, despite being dead straight, dead level and there's no intermediate stations. This section should be one where DMU's can max out (even if you need to slow them down a little earlier approaching the end of the line at Barnstaple).

- Token exchange. One-off users of the line may have noticed trains stopping, seemingly at random, on the level crossing at Crediton, and the driver get off the train at Eggesford. This is for the token exchange that allows trains to use the next section of track. Not exacly the most efficient method of signalling in the world.

Whilst sorting out all these problems would cost a good chunk of money, in comparison to the likes of the proposed electrification or HS2, it would be a tiny drop in the ocean. Would passenger number rise and the line benefit from such investment? Well, if the installation of the passing loop on the Falmouth branch is anything to go by, then they most definately would.

EDIT - I've just seen that the Tarka Rail Association's website has finally been updated, and up to the start of August passenger numbers look to be up 30,000 (from 260,000 to 290,000) - an 11.5% increase.

 

[RPI]

The Barny line has the best timetable that it's seen in many years, Obviously the person who suggested that the college train (0700 BNP-SJP) should run limited stop-has never been on that service as you pick up as many passengers along the line at the shacks as you do from Barny it's self. The 1043 of Barny is usually rammed when the kids are off or when Exeter Chiefs are playing at home and is usually a 150 weekdays which is fine, it's when it's "short" formed with a 143 that the problems occur! Happily this train is 2x143's on a saturday which is just as well as it is totally rammed when Chiefs are at home! FGW have done far more for this line than the previous franchisee (Wessex) who's answer was to cut out loads of stops and still not run as frequent service as today! I think if all goes well and the 165's go west when the TV is electrified then 2/3 car turbo's will be perfect for the Devon "Metro" services, 4 car "proper" units wouldn't be needed really.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Is anyone able to tell us who would be responsible for upgrading the existing Tarka Line rolling stock, between Exeter and Barnstaple? I recall a conversation with staff at Exeter and the upshot was that "they won't be bringing in better rolling stock ". What would the operator say to accusations that their Tarka Line service, over all, falls well below the national average. I wonder. Because without meaning offence, as a regular passenger the Tarka Line really isn't great.

Ultimately how many carriages, and what type of carriages each train company has is determined by the Department for Transport. In the main, the DfT orders new trains, and decides who gets the new trains. It also decides who gets the second hand trains once the new trains have arrived. The class 143 / 150 units used in that area were built in the mid 1980s and are only 25 years old, thus have a good 10 years life left in them yet. Despite popular opinion, a train company such as FGW and Northern has very little control over the trains it actually has, it just has to make the best of what it has - and there is always a demand for services to be strengthened all over the place - so there is never enough stock to go round, especially for things such as special events, school holidays etc.

 

[D1009]

- Token exchange. One-off users of the line may have noticed trains stopping, seemingly at random, on the level crossing at Crediton, and the driver get off the train at Eggesford. This is for the token exchange that allows trains to use the next section of track. Not exacly the most efficient method of signalling in the world.

It can't be that far in the future (possibly the 2020s) that the main lines around Exeter will be resignalled. Current plans are that when that happens, the signalling will be controlled from Didcot, just as the Waterloo main line is now signalled from Basingstoke. It would make a lot of sense if the branches were included as well. I reckon a lot of time could be saved if Eggesford and Crediton could work in the same way that Topsham does currently.

 

[TheBigD]

It can't be that far in the future (possibly the 2020s) that the main lines around Exeter will be resignalled. Current plans are that when that happens, the signalling will be controlled from Didcot, just as the Waterloo main line is now signalled from Basingstoke. It would make a lot of sense if the branches were included as well. I reckon a lot of time could be saved if Eggesford and Crediton could work in the same way that Topsham does currently.

Wouldn't save you any time on most service as you'd have to wait for the other train to pass.

The loops are not in the optimal places for the journey times to be decreased. You'd need to extend the Crediton loop northwards to Yeoford using the Meldon line and also move/extend the Eggsford loop northwards to Kings Nympton.

 

[DavidBrown]

Wouldn't save you any time on most service as you'd have to wait for the other train to pass.

The loops are not in the optimal places for the journey times to be decreased. You'd need to extend the Crediton loop northwards to Yeoford using the Meldon line and also move/extend the Eggsford loop northwards to Kings Nympton.

Surely just having new loops at Umberleigh and Copplestone (whether that's by utilising the Meldon line or on its own) would be easier and give a bit more flexibility? Ultimately, having the Eggesford Loop spare would give the possibility of railtours and such like making regular visits, plus give delayed services a bit more of a chance to catch up?

 

[12CSVT]

Wouldn't save you any time on most service as you'd have to wait for the other train to pass.

The loops are not in the optimal places for the journey times to be decreased. You'd need to extend the Crediton loop northwards to Yeoford using the Meldon line and also move/extend the Eggsford loop northwards to Kings Nympton.

Would there be a case for doubling Crediton to Coleford Junction ?
Apart from the re-signalling the only alteration needed to the trackwork would be crossovers at Coleford.

Perhaps crediton justifies a half-hourly service during busy times of the day ?

 

[John55]

Would there be a case for doubling Crediton to Coleford Junction ?
Apart from the re-signalling the only alteration needed to the trackwork would be crossovers at Coleford.

Perhaps crediton justifies a half-hourly service during busy times of the day ?

I find it difficult to see the justification for short journeys to Crediton as something like 70% of journeys on the line seem to be to and from Barnstable. The published data shows 5 people on average use each train at Crediton. Crediton is far and away the busiest intermediate station.

Having seen how most stations on the line have many fewer passengers than trains it is easy to see how the idea of not stopping at most of them was proposed earlier in the year.

 

[RPI]

I find it difficult to see the justification for short journeys to Crediton as something like 70% of journeys on the line seem to be to and from Barnstable. The published data shows 5 people on average use each train at Crediton. Crediton is far and away the busiest intermediate station.

Having seen how most stations on the line have many fewer passengers than trains it is easy to see how the idea of not stopping at most of them was proposed earlier in the year.

Always seem to pick up more passengers at Yeoford and Eggesford than Crediton! For a town of Crediton's size you get very few people get on there, probably because the station is so far from the town.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Crediton had a better service until the Okehampton route was closed to passengers in the 70's. Double track all the way to Coleford Junction remained until 1984.
There are now issues with the short down platform at Eggesford, for running 4 coach trains.

 

[RPI]

Crediton had a better service until the Okehampton route was closed to passengers in the 70's. Double track all the way to Coleford Junction remained until 1984.
There are now issues with the short down platform at Eggesford, for running 4 coach trains.

Not a problem at all, they just lock the rear door OOU before arrival.

 

[starrymarkb]

Always seem to pick up more passengers at Yeoford and Eggesford than Crediton! For a town of Crediton's size you get very few people get on there, probably because the station is so far from the town.

4 to 5 buses an hour from the town centre, journey is about 30 mins.

 

[RPI]

4 to 5 buses an hour from the town centre, journey is about 30 mins.

That will explain it then, The train journey is only about 15 mins but then a 20 min walk to the town centre!