BBC SPAD increase story - “Survivor fears safety 'could be slipping'”

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by Meerkat, 5 Oct 2019.

  1. carriageline

    carriageline Established Member

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    Completely agree. Also fatigue doesn’t have an off/on switch, it can be gradual. You can start a turn feeling fine, but then a rough few hours can exhaust you. Companies need to mature and find a way to support people saying “I’m fatigued”, and help them without punishment.
     
  2. LowLevel

    LowLevel Established Member

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    From 75 mph a 153 will not come to a stand anywhere near as quickly as a class 158 particularly on a downhill gradient. As a consequence I suppose it's on the driver when swapping between the traction to take this into account. There were a few issues on the Derby to Crewe line in 2008 when the 158s were replaced with 153s.
     
  3. whoosh

    whoosh Member

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    Only one post here has acknowledged that fatigue might not be an issue at booking on time.
    Remember this is a job which is like sitting in an isolation tank. What do you do in a car when you feel tired? Lower the windows, turn the radio up, and pull over.
    Some trains - 180s and I think 390s - don't have opening windows in the cabs, we aren't allowed a radio because it could cause distraction (despite the fact trains in Australia have them, and CD players as well - and I'm talking suburban units, not outback freights), nowhere to pull over, and no-one to talk to. Not a nice situation if tiredness has arrived.
     
  4. TheEdge

    TheEdge Established Member

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    Another issue with fatigue is its a very personal issue, which is why the one size fits all approach of the fatigue index doesn't work.

    I can turn up at 4am having had an appalling and short nights sleep but feel well rested, alert, ready for the day and not really suffer. However I can get up at 11am after 8 good hours (benefit of no kids!), have a leisurely day, go to a work at 3pm and be a zombie by 9pm! And it'll be different for the next person!
     
  5. Southern Dvr

    Southern Dvr Member

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    Just to add to the fatigue discussion, some depots on my old patch found they suddenly went from having hardly any (if any, I don’t recall) before 0500 starts and again hardly any (if any) post 0100 finishes. Then with a timetable change the hours changed dramatically. That caused a lot of turmoil to the drivers based at those depots because they’d not had to do such extreme starts and finishes before.
     
  6. axlecounter

    axlecounter Member

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    Another thing that usually isn’t considered (not even by drivers) is aging. Feeling an increase in fatigue and tiredness will be seen by the driver as caused by worse shifts, worse roster, worse shift times, etc, while many times it’s just the body itself that can’t cope with those (same!) shifts and patterns as it did 10 years before.

    It would seem normal and logical that shifts and patterns to be adapted with age, or maybe better years of career, but I’ve never seen it done.
     
  7. Southern Dvr

    Southern Dvr Member

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    That’s what I always thought the link system was for, but if it was then it certainly isn’t now!
     
  8. Class 170101

    Class 170101 Established Member

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    I thought this was done in the links?

    The lower the link the worse the jobs. The senior links had the better jobs and better hours? And would normally be occupied by the older drivers?
     
  9. Southern Dvr

    Southern Dvr Member

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    That used to be the way but these days not so much as the top links often contain ‘specialist’ routes knowledge so as soon as they want to run earlier trains there’s only one link that can do the work!
     
  10. Tomnick

    Tomnick Established Member

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    Look at it the other way - they didn't seek to sell the conditions, the companies looked to buy them. You give the example of no booking on before 05.00. How do you cover that work using night turns when the fragmentation of the industry means that the company probably won't have a depot at the other end of the route? I booked on at a silly time this morning to travel as a passenger to an extremity of our network. There are plenty of traincrew based there, but none of them are ours, and we've already established on these very forums that there's no business case for a depot there just to serve this one route. Booking on much earlier to dress it up as a night turn would then make it unreasonably long, much worse to work. Much of what has been 'sold' (or 'bought') relates to flexibility rather than fatigue-enhancing stuff. I don't think anyone's expecting that flexibility to be given up, but in a world of increasingly intensive diagrams, there's a lot that can be done to reduce the fatigue risk - things like limiting the turn length when booking on before a certain time, adjusting the placement of PNBs even where they're technically compliant, that sort of thing. It's not about pay or conditions, it's about a constructive process to benefit both sides of the table.
    The same goes for most SPADs, I'm sure - the multitude of issues, that is. A pair of 158s probably would've stopped more quickly, maybe short of the signal. A dogbox trilogy just gives less opportunity to escape from an error. There is a bit of a trap waiting for you at the signal in question (it's very much overbraked from the YY - indeed, there's service braking distance from the YY to the Y) - hopefully something that'll be looked at, at some level as I know that there's a similar setup at quite a few other locations.
     

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