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[BBC TV]The Tube: An Underground History

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jon0844

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If most of the route is intact then I am quite amazed the Northern Heights section hasn't been reinstated as its very own project, irrespective of any future plans for Crossrail 2. It sounds, albeit only from what I've read on the net, that it wouldn't be that expensive or even that hard to 'sell'. I presume the local well-off residents would be anything but NIMBYs in this case, especially considering the likely increase in their house prices!

I'd love to see the Alban Way running trams from St Albans to Hatfield (potentially even on to WGC and possibly even Hertford, but that's a bit more pie-in-the-sky) but a lot of the land has been built on or is just not practical for reinstatement. Of course, nothing a bit of compulsory purchasing couldn't fix.
 

edwin_m

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If most of the route is intact then I am quite amazed the Northern Heights section hasn't been reinstated as its very own project

There's quite a bit about this on the Net, including an interesting video documentary, and the routes can be viewed on aerial mapping (except the tunnels obviously:lol:).

The bit northwards from Edgware station to the edge of the built-up area has also been built on - a line of newer houses is visible along what was the reserved alignment. North of there it might be possible to build it, though the M1 probably cuts the line of the tunnels and there's a rumour that these tunnels were actually built and were severed by the motorway. However this part is all green belt so there isn't and never will be enough development to justify a Tube. Incidentally the Bushey Heath terminus was nowhere near Bushey Heath as it then was and still is, but is the rural area to the east of the M1.

The sections further south were parts of the LNER that it didn't want any more, a bit like the eastern end of the Central line. Mill Hill East to Edgware is partly built on and I think the M1 may block this too. The bits round Highgate and Alexandra Palace are mostly urban parks and there would be a lot of resistance to reinstatement of any rail link. There would also be no easy way of connecting these to central London, as the intended route via the Great Northern and City tunnels (Drayton Park) is now used by the GN inner suburban services.
 

Darren R

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If most of the route is intact then I am quite amazed the Northern Heights section hasn't been reinstated as its very own project, irrespective of any future plans for Crossrail 2. It sounds, albeit only from what I've read on the net, that it wouldn't be that expensive or even that hard to 'sell'. I presume the local well-off residents would be anything but NIMBYs in this case, especially considering the likely increase in their house prices!

The Northern Heights project was part of the 'build it and they will come' policy in regard to Underground extensions - the same policy which led to Betjemen's beloved MetroLand. When the Piccadilly was extended up to Cockfosters in the early 30s there was very little at the end of the line, but the house-builders moved in as expected and the extension was a success. It was anticipated the same thing would happen with the Northern Line extensions. The location of the proposed terminus at Bushey Heath was more or less mid-way between existing main line railways at Watford and Borehamwood. (Cockfosters was similarly chosen, being mid-way between Barnet and Enfield.)

The problem with resurrecting the project is two-fold. It's only worth building the extensions where housing has subsequently been built - but these are precisely the areas where it can't be built. Beyond is Green Belt, and not only is there little housing there but there is never going to be any because designated Green Belt is legally protected.

It is a shame it wasn't finished, especially since so much of the construction was already completed by the time work stopped. If Chamberlain had just managed to stall that Hitler bloke by another two years the Northern Line would today be a very different beast!
 

anthony263

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Does anybody know if there is going to be a second series of The Tube? If so when is the estimate for when it will be on?

You will be pleased to know that a 2nd series has been filmed already this episode was a 1 hour special filmed over the new year.

The BBC are supposed to have a 6 episode documentary on buses. I wouldnt be surprised if it was like that documentary they filmed on the London buses during 2007.

Anyway series 2 of the tube was supposed to be broadcast after that buses documentary was aired, best to keep watch on the District Dave underground forum although I will post an alert here when I learn when the
1st episode is going to be aired.
 

Chris125

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The problem with resurrecting the project is two-fold. It's only worth building the extensions where housing has subsequently been built - but these are precisely the areas where it can't be built. Beyond is Green Belt, and not only is there little housing there but there is never going to be any because designated Green Belt is legally protected.

Perhaps the biggest problem extending existing tube lines is the lack of spare capacity, increasing passenger numbers at the extremities only exacerbates congestion further down the line.

Chris
 

jon0844

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The problem with resurrecting the project is two-fold. It's only worth building the extensions where housing has subsequently been built - but these are precisely the areas where it can't be built. Beyond is Green Belt, and not only is there little housing there but there is never going to be any because designated Green Belt is legally protected.

It is a shame it wasn't finished, especially since so much of the construction was already completed by the time work stopped. If Chamberlain had just managed to stall that Hitler bloke by another two years the Northern Line would today be a very different beast!

What's clearly a real shame is that when the project was halted, nobody thought 'hang on a minute, so much work has been done already - let's hold out to try and get it restarted in the future'.

Clearly building on parts of it has now made it a lot harder to do, but not impossible. Especially if we're actually going to discover that in the next 5, 10 or 20 years a lot of that protected green belt will no longer be so.

There's plenty of green belt around Hertfordshire that are earmarked to have housing on them to solve the housing crisis - so anything inside the M25 must also be at risk.
 

edwin_m

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I seem to remember it wasn't formally abandoned until about 1956. I've never been able to work out what was actually built apart from that viaduct and Aldenham works - possibly not very much.
 

Darren R

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I seem to remember it wasn't formally abandoned until about 1956. I've never been able to work out what was actually built apart from that viaduct and Aldenham works - possibly not very much.

I don't think there was much actually built - but I don't think there was all that much that needed to be built, not in terms of major earthworks and engineering anyway. And the core of the project was to convert heavy rail lines that already existed. I believe most of that was completed by the outbreak of hostilities.

What's clearly a real shame is that when the project was halted, nobody thought 'hang on a minute, so much work has been done already - let's hold out to try and get it restarted in the future'.

Quite so. But after the war there were far more urgent calls on the cash needed for completion. I assume that the possibility of resurrecting the scheme at some point down the line was the reason it took so long before they finally officially gave up.
 

edwin_m

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I don't think there was much actually built - but I don't think there was all that much that needed to be built, not in terms of major earthworks and engineering anyway. And the core of the project was to convert heavy rail lines that already existed. I believe most of that was completed by the outbreak of hostilities.

I was thinking more of the section north of Edgware, which would have involved substantial construction not least a section of tunnel which would have started not far north of the viaduct.

I do agree the rest of it was on rail formation and there wouldn't have been much to do. If some of this part had been built it would have filled a few gaps in transport for the built-up area. BR might have had to keep the connections to the Widened Lines at Kings Cross in order to link the GN electrification to the City.
 

LE Greys

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I don't think there was much actually built - but I don't think there was all that much that needed to be built, not in terms of major earthworks and engineering anyway. And the core of the project was to convert heavy rail lines that already existed. I believe most of that was completed by the outbreak of hostilities.

The LNER station at Ally Pally (the old one) actually had conductor rails laid, but they were never energised, so the service was worked by N2s from King's Cross right up to the day of closure. The connection between Edgware and Mill Hill was used by empty stock trains from Edgware depot for quite some time, until it closed, while the Highgate-Finsbury Park section sometimes saw battery locos hauling Tube stock for the GN&C. It's just the Bushey Heath section that never actually got built. This also led to the LNER owning some Tube stock.

http://www.lner.info/locos/Electric/tube.shtml

Outside of London, a number of 1938 cars remain in revenue-earning service! The Isle of Wight's Island Line has low tunnel clearances, and is usually operated by ex-Tube stock. In 1988, the line replaced even older Tube stock with a number of the withdrawn 1938 cars. These cars were refurbished, made into two-car sets, and classed as Class 483. Units 6,7, & 8 contain the six remaining ex-LNER self-propelling rolling stock that continues to be in revenue earning service!
 

Mikey C

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I was thinking more of the section north of Edgware, which would have involved substantial construction not least a section of tunnel which would have started not far north of the viaduct.

I do agree the rest of it was on rail formation and there wouldn't have been much to do. If some of this part had been built it would have filled a few gaps in transport for the built-up area. BR might have had to keep the connections to the Widened Lines at Kings Cross in order to link the GN electrification to the City.

It's easy to imagine an alternative scenario where the line to Ally Pally was fully converted and integrated into the Tube, and instead they gave up on the Central Line Ongar extensions or the quiet 'Grange Hill' loop. Seeing how complicated the current Northern Line is, the full completed scheme would have been a nightmare to run!
 

LE Greys

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It's easy to imagine an alternative scenario where the line to Ally Pally was fully converted and integrated into the Tube, and instead they gave up on the Central Line Ongar extensions or the quiet 'Grange Hill' loop. Seeing how complicated the current Northern Line is, the full completed scheme would have been a nightmare to run!

I reckon it would have been split in half by now. After all, the Hamm & City was once counted as part of the Metropolitan, so it's quite likely that the former City & South London part, plus the High Barnet and Bushey Heath would end up as one line, the Kennington, Charing Cross, Hampstead and Ally Pally sections would become another.
 

STEVIEBOY1

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I reckon it would have been split in half by now. After all, the Hamm & City was once counted as part of the Metropolitan, so it's quite likely that the former City & South London part, plus the High Barnet and Bushey Heath would end up as one line, the Kennington, Charing Cross, Hampstead and Ally Pally sections would become another.

Yes, they sort of operate the Northern Line now in 2 parts roughly as you have mentioned. I guess this will continue even more if the extetion to the Battersea area goes ahead.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The LNER station at Ally Pally (the old one) actually had conductor rails laid, but they were never energised, so the service was worked by N2s from King's Cross right up to the day of closure.

The connection between Edgware and Mill Hill was used by empty stock trains from Edgware depot for quite some time, until it closed,


That's interesting that there was infact a connection/track in place between Mill Hill East & Edgware. Shame it's not used now.
[/B]
while the Highgate-Finsbury Park section sometimes saw battery locos hauling Tube stock for the GN&C. It's just the Bushey Heath section that never actually got built. This also led to the LNER owning some Tube stock.
 
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High Dyke

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That's interesting that there was infact a connection/track in place between Mill Hill East & Edgware. Shame it's not used now.
[/B]
while the Highgate-Finsbury Park section sometimes saw battery locos hauling Tube stock for the GN&C. It's just the Bushey Heath section that never actually got built. This also led to the LNER owning some Tube stock.

Ah the Northern Heights Project, including the Edgware, Highgate and London Railway. Part of which remains in use and some converted to a footpath.

An active Railway
The railway started as a steam service off the East Coast Main Line with suburban services for the Great Northern Railway. The line was authorised in 1862, for construction to Edgware as the Edgware, Highgate and London Railway and it was opened in 1867, by which time the EH&L had been absorbed by the Great Northern.
The land was transferred to Haringey (with a small section to Islington) and re-opened as a linear park after some bridge replacements were carried out.

http://www.parkland-walk.org.uk/history.html
 

edwin_m

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According to Wikipedia goods services between Mill Hill East and Edgware continued until 1964.
 

anthony263

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Slightly off topic but the 1st episode of TFL's London Buses documentary is being broadcast next tuesday at 9pm on bbc2
 

Mojo

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Slightly off topic but the 1st episode of TFL's London Buses documentary is being broadcast next tuesday at 9pm on bbc2

It isn't just about Buses but a more general look at TfL Surface Transport including Streets.
 

Karl

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Another chance to see this episode tonight on BBC2 at 11.20pm.

The Tube: An Underground History
This year sees the London Underground celebrate its 150th anniversary and this film tells its story through the eyes of the people who work there. Farringdon station supervisor Iain MacPherson talks about why the Tube was built, and design and heritage head Mike Ashworth reveals how one of his predecessors pioneered the art of branding in the 1920s. Driver Dylan Glenister explains why every Edwardian station on the Piccadilly line has its own unique tiling pattern, and how the construction of new stops in the 1930s expanded the borders of London.
 
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