BBC Wales reports of threat to Welsh ticket offices

[Greenback]

I watched BBC Wales News while having lunch, and I was puzzled to see a story about the possibility of ticket offices being closed to save money.

The gist of the report was that a UK government report suggested that the closure of 25% of ticket offices across England and Wales would save £1billion.

I can only assume that this has come out of the McNulty Report, but what concerned me even more was the list of station that were said to be udner threat. These included Fishguard Harbour (no ticket office), Llandrindod Wells, which i believe is privately run, Bargoed, which I thought had already closed some years ago, and Newtown, which National Rail states is run by an agent.

There seems to be a national story on the BBC UK News web page:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14784684

It appears to confirm that the source of the infomration is McNulty, and refers to a list contained int he report. If there is such a list, does it really include such errors as Fishguard?!

 

[pemma]

Does anyone know where the full list can be found?

The South East list is here: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...s-and-safety-fears-over-unstaffed-stations.do

The MEN mentions 114 North West stations but doesn't name them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Found the full list: http://www.togetherfortransport.org/content/category-e-stations-your-station-list

 

[Clip]

Does anyone know where the full list can be found?

The South East list is here: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...s-and-safety-fears-over-unstaffed-stations.do

I hope whoever copied and pasted that gets their hands slapped - Westgate on sea is in Kent not Essex

 

[OxtedL]

Lovely stuff.

Closing ticket offices on lines that even resemble the Oxted Line would be monumentally stupid. Revenue would drop off, and commuters would get even more p***ed off.

I can't realistically see anyone trying to close all the stations on that list.

 

[AlterEgo]

Bargoed definitely doesn't have a ticket office (any more) according to National rail Enquiries!

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/bgd/details.html

 

[the sniper]

BBC Midlands Today had a similar report on their midday news, listing stations including Lichfield Trent Valley, Erdington and Chester Road. I can't find anything about it online though...

(Edit: thanks for the full national list.)

 

[pemma]

I hope whoever copied and pasted that gets their hands slapped - Westgate on sea is in Kent not Essex

They've also got Hale and Tottenham Hale mixed up. Something I didn't think was actually possible.

 

[Butts]

Why does the UK list exclude Scottish Stations ?

 

[pemma]

Buxton is on the list. While the ticket office doesn't sell that many tickets off-peak I doubt the ticket machines will be able to deal with the full range of season tickets that people require.

 

[Greenback]

Bargoed definitely doesn't have a ticket office (any more) according to National rail Enquiries!

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/bgd/details.html

I thought it had closed when i was there in 2009! Not much money to be saved there or at FIshguard then!

 

[anthony263]

Yes it does include Fishguard Harbour, also includes, Radyr (Didnt know there was a ticket office there) Severn Tunnel Jct (Asking 4 trouble there during the peaks) Llanelli,
Merthry Tydfil etc

full list of welsh stations:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...1466-29365442/#sitelife-commentsWidget-bottom

 

[Greenback]

Yes it does include Fishguard Harbour, also includes, Radyr (Didnt know there was a ticket office there) Severn Tunnel Jct (Asking 4 trouble there during the peaks) Llanelli,
Merthry Tydfil etc

full list of welsh stations:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...1466-29365442/#sitelife-commentsWidget-bottom

Thanks Anthony. National Rail does show a ticket office at Radyr, until 1300 Mon - Fri.

Closing Severn Tunnel and Llanelli would be a huge error in my opinion.

 

[anthony263]

Thanks Anthony. National Rail does show a ticket office at Radyr, until 1300 Mon - Fri.

Closing Severn Tunnel and Llanelli would be a huge error in my opinion.

I have not seen Llanelli during the morning peak so i cannot really comment, i am right in guessing that it is very busy?

Severn tunnel jct is packed during the peaks and commuters will play hell

 

[Butts]

I thought it had closed when i was there in 2009! Not much money to be saved there or at FIshguard then!

Have you spotted your home station on the list ?

From your local knowledge are you shocked

 

[Greenback]

I have not seen Llanelli during the morning peak so i cannot really comment, i am right in guessing that it is very busy?

Severn tunnel jct is packed during the peaks and commuters will play hell

There is usually a constant queue of 2-3 people before the 0804 HST and the next train after that. It is worse on Mondays and Tuesdays due, I assume, to the people buying their weekly seasons!

There are quite a few Advance tickets sold after the peak. I wa simpressed one day when I was waiting there for half an hour for my train. It was midweek, and the clerk sold 4 day returns to Cardiff on a group ticket, two adults and two child Advance London tickets with family railcard (he sodl the railcard as well), several individual singles and returns to Swansea and Carmarthen, plus a Senior Advance to York.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Have you spotted your home station on the list ?

From your local knowledge are you shocked

I am not shocked, because there is clearly a feeling that ticket offices are an unnecessary expense, but it would be a bad thing for most places, not just Llanelli, in terms of lost revenue!

 

[Butts]

There is usually a constant queue of 2-3 people before the 0804 HST and the next train after that. It is worse on Mondays and Tuesdays due, I assume, to the people buying their weekly seasons!

There are quite a few Advance tickets sold after the peak. I wa simpressed one day when I was waiting there for half an hour for my train. It was midweek, and the clerk sold 4 day returns to Cardiff on a group ticket, two adults and two child Advance London tickets with family railcard (he sodl the railcard as well), several individual singles and returns to Swansea and Carmarthen, plus a Senior Advance to York.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I am not shocked, because there is clearly a feeling that ticket offices are an unnecessary expense, but it would be a bad thing for most places, not just Llanelli, in terms of lost revenue!

Not just lost revenue what about Customer Service - they all bleat on about how wonderful they are and then take actions like this

 

[Greenback]

Not just lost revenue what about Customer Service - they all bleat on about how wonderful they are and then take actions like this

Yes, the ticket office is also a place where passengers can get information. A human being is a lot more use than a screen telling you to enquire about weekend engineering works by calling NRE, and an automated announcement telling you the 0829 is six minutes late, when it is already 0838!

The family group I referred to above who bought tickets to London may well have not gone by train if there had not been a ticket office there,

 

[142094]

Oldham Mumps is on the list as well. Shame it closed in 2009.

Can't see any NE stations on the list, then again most of them arean't staffed to start with anyway.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The MEN mentions 114 North West stations....Found the full list: http://www.togetherfortransport.org/content/category-e-stations-your-station-list

This has brought to mind a station that was on the Infrastructure forum in a thread recently that is shown on this list, viz. Heald Green, which is the penultimate station before Manchester Airport and has regular services from both Northern Rail and First TPE. Northern Rail have spent no less than four months totally refurbishing the ticket office with fully refurbished staff rooms, a completely new large-size ticket area, with large glass screen, automatic doors, etc. The refurbishment costs must have been very large indeed. Whilst this South Manchester station is not on our local line, my wife has three members of her side of the family who are daily Manchester commuters and have kept me abreast of the works that ran from April to August this year.

In the BBC report, reference is made to stations in "Category E" serving less than 250,000 passengers annually. Heald Green in the 2009/10 period served 380,000 passengers, considerably more than the baseline figure of 250,000 and the ticket office there certainly exceeds the minimum hourly stipulation.

This is just one of the North-West stations that I noted, because this had appeared on a forum thread. I am sure that there will be other stations on that list that other forum members can identify as being incorrectly included, as I cannot believe that I found the only one.

 

[blacknight]

Not just lost revenue what about Customer Service - they all bleat on about how wonderful they are and then take actions like this

.

In an era of Customer Self Service where less wages=greater profits=less subsidy TC's
Not quite back to the 1960's idea of open stations & pay trains as small print in time table will state you must purchase ticket before boarding if working TVM at the station.

 

[Greenback]

I would not be surprised if the list contained in the McNulty report is full of errors. Nor will I be surprised if there have been errors in the media reporting of the lists.

It's all a bit arbitrary anyway to say that any station over x annual passengers should have a ticket office, and any below that number should not.

 

[185]

They need to close them to pay the salaries of the new highly paid Arriva 'bid team' vacancies being advertised at present.

.....a bid they shouldn't win due to being utterly rubbish & closing booking offices.

 

[Butts]

I would not be surprised if the list contained in the McNulty report is full of errors. Nor will I be surprised if there have been errors in the media reporting of the lists.

It's all a bit arbitrary anyway to say that any station over x annual passengers should have a ticket office, and any below that number should not.

I don't agree with closures but I suppose they would argue you have to draw the line somewhere.

 

[pemma]

Here's the full list of all stations and what category they are in: http://www2.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/passenger/stations/betterrailstations/pdf/partd.pdf

I noticed they've listed Winsford as category F unstaffed when it's staffed.

 

[Butts]

.

In an era of Customer Self Service where less wages=greater profits=less subsidy TC's
Not quite back to the 1960's idea of open stations & pay trains as small print in time table will state you must purchase ticket before boarding if working TVM at the station.

It's all "babble" when there were enough staff you never heard all this bull and now you do they expect better service with fewer staff

 

[pemma]

It's all a bit arbitrary anyway to say that any station over x annual passengers should have a ticket office, and any below that number should not.

In the BBC report, reference is made to stations in "Category E" serving less than 250,000 passengers annually. Heald Green in the 2009/10 period served 380,000 passengers, considerably more than the baseline figure of 250,000 and the ticket office there certainly exceeds the minimum hourly stipulation.

That doesn't seem to be how it's worked out. If you look at the link I posted in my previous post it seems to imply they used a formula which includes revenue taken as well as passenger numbers. Category E, for instance, states stations usually with less than 250,000 journeys per annum but lists Buxton with 300,000 journeys per annum. Now I imagine most off-peak journeys are made by people visiting Buxton opposed to those from Buxton so the ticket sales off-peak is very low in both numbers and revenue taken.

 

[Greenback]

I don't agree with closures but I suppose they would argue you have to draw the line somewhere.

You may have to draw the line somewhere, but it doesn't have to ba an arbitrary decision based on a list that appears to be riddled with errors!

That doesn't seem to be how it's worked out. If you look at the link I posted in my previous post it seems to imply they used a formula which includes revenue taken as well as passenger numbers. Category E, for instance, states stations usually with less than 250,000 journeys per annum but lists Buxton with 300,000 journeys per annum. Now I imagine most off-peak journeys are made by people visiting Buxton opposed to those from Buxton so the ticket sales off-peak is very low in both numbers and revenue taken.

The list in the report contains mistakes. I'd also like to know how the revenue aspect is assessed - for instance, a part time ticket office might take £950,000 a year during four hours of operation each weekday, and be closed, whereas an office open eleven hours Mon - Sat and eight hours Sunday might take £1.5m and be saved, although the former is far more lucrative and efficient.

I think the main problem is the McNulty report itself, to be honest.

 

[pemma]

The list in the report contains mistakes. I'd also like to know how the revenue aspect is assessed - for instance, a part time ticket office might take £950,000 a year during four hours of operation each weekday, and be closed, whereas an office open eleven hours Mon - Sat and eight hours Sunday might take £1.5m and be saved, although the former is far more lucrative and efficient.

I think the main problem is the McNulty report itself, to be honest.

I'm pretty sure they've used passenger numbers and ticket office opening hours from a few years back and not the latest ones. The big mistake DfT made with the EMT franchise.

However, Knutsford and Buxton have been very similar in passenger numbers every year and I would be very surprised if Knutsford doesn't make significantly more revenue than Buxton. Firstly, like I mentioned more people would be visiting Buxton. Secondly, Knutsford ticket office is well used by business people wanting to buy their tickets for their Warrington/Wilmslow/Macclesfield/Crewe-London trip the following morning, which must make thousands of pounds a week in revenue.

 

[Greenback]

Yes, there is bound to be a difference in the amount of revenue offices take because of sociological and geographical differences. This even more reason toe nsure that any grounds to close an office or offices ar emade objectively, with due regard to all of the factors. The least they cna do is to make sure that the categorisation of stations is as up to date and as accurate as possible!

On a more positive note, ATW have stated that they know of no proposals to clsoe any Welsh ticket offices:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-14785356

 

[Chapeltom]

Buxton is on the list. While the ticket office doesn't sell that many tickets off-peak I doubt the ticket machines will be able to deal with the full range of season tickets that people require.

Buxton ticket office to be closed? Is that a joke? Its a terminus station, serving 300,000 people a year, Northern Rail guards are going to have their work cut out.