• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

BBC: Wheelchair user 'forced to wet himself' after buses fail to stop

Status
Not open for further replies.

Wolfie

Established Member
Joined
17 Aug 2010
Messages
6,047
Horrible if fully true.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-49972687
"A wheelchair user says he was "forced to wet" himself when he was left at a bus shelter for an hour.

Ryan McDade said he was passed by three Pronto buses in Mansfield, Nottinghamshire.

The 20-year-old said he felt "dehumanised" by the drivers and that the experience was "humiliating".

Bus operator Stagecoach East Midlands wrote to Mr McDade to apologise after reviewing CCTV footage adding "we do not condone this type of misconduct".....

In a written response to Mr McDade's complaint, the company said offered its "sincere apologies to Ryan".

It added: "Two of our staff have failed to comply with the companies policies in respect of both stopping for passengers and disability awareness."

The drivers will be "interviewed under the company's formal disciplinary procedure"."
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Robertj21a

On Moderation
Joined
22 Sep 2013
Messages
7,518
Quite terrible. If true, I hope Stagecoach throw the book at the drivers involved.
 
Joined
15 Sep 2019
Messages
708
Location
Back in Geordieland!
I would hope it's a final written warning at least, leaving a disabled person. But that assumes it's true, why would drivers refuse to pick him up knowing it was on CCTV unless they had good reason, for example all wheelchair spaces taken?

Companies will always blame the driver, ours used to send out letters saying " the driver has been dealt with under the companies discipline procedure" when that might mean looking at the complaint and throwing it in the bin.
 

Eyersey468

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2018
Messages
2,135
If the allegation is true the drivers should have stopped. I can understand him being refused travel if the wheelchair space is full but can't understand why 3 wouldnt stop.
 

ashkeba

Established Member
Joined
13 May 2019
Messages
2,171
I would hope it's a final written warning at least, leaving a disabled person. But that assumes it's true, why would drivers refuse to pick him up knowing it was on CCTV unless they had good reason, for example all wheelchair spaces taken?

Companies will always blame the driver, ours used to send out letters saying " the driver has been dealt with under the companies discipline procedure" when that might mean looking at the complaint and throwing it in the bin.
Yes, drivers ignore the CCTV because they think their companies have their backs. One of the Cambridge bus companies defended a crash driver by blaming people crossing badly and saying s/he'd lost control by swerving to avoid them until police demanded the CCTV and it revealed no people and a speeding driver.

As for failing to stop for wheelchair users, I think it's doubly bad when buses do it because taxis routinely fail and trains in some places have to be booked (more than for walkers).
 

martian boy

Member
Joined
27 Sep 2017
Messages
71
Even if the bus is full/wheelchair space occupied, the driver should stop to inform the intended passenger. I wonder if something is amiss here? I’ve often been told by an irate passenger that they’ve been there for nearly an hour, on a service that has a bus every fifteen minutes. We also used to have one disabled passenger who would scream blue murder if the bus would not stop between stops. Don’t believe everything that is printed in the papers.
 

PeterC

Established Member
Joined
29 Sep 2014
Messages
4,066
Even if the bus is full/wheelchair space occupied, the driver should stop to inform the intended passenger. I wonder if something is amiss here? I’ve often been told by an irate passenger that they’ve been there for nearly an hour, on a service that has a bus every fifteen minutes. We also used to have one disabled passenger who would scream blue murder if the bus would not stop between stops. Don’t believe everything that is printed in the papers.
Bad as the report sounds the most that I would say about anything in the media is that it justifies investigation.
 

Andyh82

Established Member
Joined
19 May 2014
Messages
3,489
It seems very fishy that 3 buses failed to stop one after another. Yes you might get a bad driver who doesn’t want the fuss of getting the ramp out, but what are the chances that you have 3 bad drivers and they are all behind each other?

Is there more to this story, like that the passenger wasn’t clearly visible?

Also, interesting how Stagecoach have taken full blame and assumed full responsibility. Isn’t the Pronto jointly run by Trent Barton?
 

Mwanesh

Member
Joined
14 May 2016
Messages
787
Something is amiss in this story. The Pronto is every 10minutes between Mansfield ans Nottingham.
 

PeterC

Established Member
Joined
29 Sep 2014
Messages
4,066
It seems very fishy that 3 buses failed to stop one after another. Yes you might get a bad driver who doesn’t want the fuss of getting the ramp out, but what are the chances that you have 3 bad drivers and they are all behind each other?

Is there more to this story, like that the passenger wasn’t clearly visible?

Also, interesting how Stagecoach have taken full blame and assumed full responsibility. Isn’t the Pronto jointly run by Trent Barton?
Not directly related but I was on a bus that failed to stop for a passenger (not in a wheelchair) the other night. It was dark, raining, and the passenger did not step up to the kerb to hail the bus but stayed in the shelter and stuck his hand out from there at the last minute. If he complained I wonder how he described the event?

Like other posters I can understand one stroppy driver but not three.
 

mde

Member
Joined
17 Nov 2016
Messages
513
We don't know what time of day this happened - evening and Sunday services are every 30 minutes.
The article appears to imply that it happened on a Friday afternoon.

Presumably Stagey have reviewed the CCTV before making their statement; otherwise, it would seem strange that they have, in effect, accepted liability for the issue.
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,029
Three buses and their drivers were allegedly involved, and Stagecoach are accepting responsibility for two of these cases, not mentioning the third one, which could well be because it was a TrentBarton bus. It takes courage for people to speak out like this and the kneejerk reaction of some to immediately doubt the complainant's version of events, or seek to make him in some way culpable for his misfortune is, sadly, all part of the problem that social media now adds to misfortune.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,521
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Three buses and their drivers were allegedly involved, and Stagecoach are accepting responsibility for two of these cases, not mentioning the third one, which could well be because it was a TrentBarton bus. It takes courage for people to speak out like this and the kneejerk reaction of some to immediately doubt the complainant's version of events, or seek to make him in some way culpable for his misfortune is, sadly, all part of the problem that social media now adds to misfortune.

He'd be on an ENCTS pass I assume, so wouldn't have been restricted to one operator?

Having said that, 3 buses driving past that were neither full and standing nor already having their full complement of wheelchairs on board isn't acceptable even if they were 2 minutes apart. If he isn't able to move quickly to the kerb and put his hand out (which is a distinct possibility given that he is severely disabled, mentioning that he can't even use disabled toilets - perhaps he needs a Changing Places toilet with a hoist?), perhaps that confirms that that approach to stopping buses, which is only really a UK thing, isn't fit for purpose any more anyway, and could itself be considered discrimination?

Perhaps we should move, for this reason (as well as many other reasons), to a system of "unless the driver can 100% see that there definitely isn't someone there who may require the bus then they must stop and open the doors", which is what most other countries use? If that stop had an opaque shelter, for instance, that means it would effectively become a compulsory stop, at least in bad weather.
 
Joined
15 Sep 2019
Messages
708
Location
Back in Geordieland!
I have had a passenger tell me she had been waiting over an hour for a bus, I pointed out that I had been there an hour earlier. She complained about the way I spoke to her. Another that I knew the bus was going to break down when I let him on. The press needs to be taken with a pinch of salt, bus drivers are the nation's whipping boys.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,521
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
The press needs to be taken with a princh of salt, bus drivers are the nation's whipping boys.

While I'm sure this doesn't describe you or anyone else on the forum, the number of extremely unprofessional bus drivers out there who just want to rag round as fast as possible to extend their break and just grunt at passengers does tend to make this rather unsurprising.
 

cnjb8

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2019
Messages
2,113
Location
Nottingham
It seems very fishy that 3 buses failed to stop one after another. Yes you might get a bad driver who doesn’t want the fuss of getting the ramp out, but what are the chances that you have 3 bad drivers and they are all behind each other?

Is there more to this story, like that the passenger wasn’t clearly visible?

Also, interesting how Stagecoach have taken full blame and assumed full responsibility. Isn’t the Pronto jointly run by Trent Barton?

Where is Trentbarton in all this ?
TrentBarton have just 4 buses on the route. Stagecoach operate nearly 10.
 
Joined
15 Sep 2019
Messages
708
Location
Back in Geordieland!
While I'm sure this doesn't describe you or anyone else on the forum, the number of extremely unprofessional bus drivers out there who just want to rag round as fast as possible to extend their break and just grunt at passengers does tend to make this rather unsurprising.

I used to respond to the passengers the way they spoke to me, if they ignored me ignored them, if they were polite I was polite. Given the wages and conditions now it is a miracle they can get drivers at all. Not sure how a driver can routinely run early now with CCTV? People think they can speak and behave how they like to drivers and they do.

Yes, drivers ignore the CCTV because they think their companies have their backs. .

I have never known a company back a driver in anyway, CCTV goes missing or is subject to " data protection" in the event it backs the driver.
 

vicbury

Member
Joined
17 Mar 2012
Messages
901
Location
Bristol
I used to respond to the passengers the way they spoke to me, if they ignored me ignored them, if they were polite I was polite.

Given that the passenger is your customer and you are the company's representative, isn't it your job to greet the passenger rather than wait to see if they speak to you or not?
 
Joined
11 Sep 2012
Messages
748
Location
uk
The story cropped up on Trent Bartons media thread last week. They were able to rule out their two buses that should have been in the area at the time as they simply hadn't run on schedule due to congestion in Nottingham City Centre. The Stagecoach journeys were also running delayed. That in no way vindicates what occurred at all. I have just been on a Trent Barton bus that has left 30 passengers, mostly schoolchildren, at a bus stop - simply because the driver already had 30 children and a number of adults standing and didn't have the capacity for more - the driver simply shook his head at the queue as he passed. Customer service obviously differs between operators.
 
Joined
15 Sep 2019
Messages
708
Location
Back in Geordieland!
Given that the passenger is your customer and you are the company's representative, isn't it your job to greet the passenger rather than wait to see if they speak to you or not?
Only in some fantasy company video.The idea the driver is going to smile and ask " how are you today" 300 times a day is laughable. Most people just show a pass then sit down, if I had time I might have a bit of crack with them, especially if it was a young lady.

I left bus driving some time ago due to being assaulted ( spat on) and told it was part of my job and I still had to let them use the buses I drove. Should I have been polite to them? Give them a had a problem card ( serious suggestion from my manager)? Most people don't really want much interaction with the driver, they want a bus that is well driven and on time, for the most part, I achieved that.
 

cnjb8

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2019
Messages
2,113
Location
Nottingham
The story cropped up on Trent Bartons media thread last week. They were able to rule out their two buses that should have been in the area at the time as they simply hadn't run on schedule due to congestion in Nottingham City Centre. The Stagecoach journeys were also running delayed. That in no way vindicates what occurred at all. I have just been on a Trent Barton bus that has left 30 passengers, mostly schoolchildren, at a bus stop - simply because the driver already had 30 children and a number of adults standing and didn't have the capacity for more - the driver simply shook his head at the queue as he passed. Customer service obviously differs between operators.
What else is the driver supposed to do in that situation?
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
19,965
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
Sadly, we're hearing a media story (again) and Stagecoach have said that they are investigating to ascertain the facts. We should appreciate that those have to be established.

Drivers and customers represent the wide strata of humanity. I've had great drivers, and seen the worst. Best practice is what I saw in Devon a few months ago when the wheelchair space had been taken by a user and then, about 3/4 stops later, another user wanted the bus. The driver stopped, explained the situation, and the waiting passenger understood the issue. Granted, it was a frequent service on a fine day.

Flipside is that drivers have to contend with burgeoning traffic congestion and timings that are achievable one day and hopeless the next. It would be better if they stopped to explain (as per the Stagecoach Devon driver) but we can see why they don't.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,521
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Flipside is that drivers have to contend with burgeoning traffic congestion and timings that are achievable one day and hopeless the next. It would be better if they stopped to explain (as per the Stagecoach Devon driver) but we can see why they don't.

If they're full and standing, I suppose the risk is more try to push on board and he's powerless to stop it.

This is a case where it'd be good if bus stop PIS had the capability to have messages added by drivers. A couple of buttons on the ticket machine could add a warning to the screens (where fitted) that the bus was full and standing - if the subject of this case had seen that, he might well have considered other options rather than just assuming (reasonably) that he'd get on the next one. Ideally a control centre would do it, but that seems to be a losing battle due to cost - but why shouldn't the driver's ticket machine be able to show a few specific messages with a couple of taps?
 

Robertj21a

On Moderation
Joined
22 Sep 2013
Messages
7,518
Are we now suggesting that the Stagecoach Prontos (all are double deck E400s) were full up at the time ?. - or are we just looking for excuses ?
As usual, best wait for the facts.
 

Andyh82

Established Member
Joined
19 May 2014
Messages
3,489
Are we now suggesting that the Stagecoach Prontos (all are double deck E400s) were full up at the time ?. - or are we just looking for excuses ?
As usual, best wait for the facts.
There won’t ever be any ‘facts’, the story as been and gone.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top