Beat the anti Hs2 mob at their own game!

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by Snapper, 21 Jan 2015.

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  1. Snapper

    Snapper Established Member

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    The Daily Mirror have started an online poll about Hs2. As usual, antis are publicising this to try & swing it their way.

    Of course, it doesn't really matter one way or the other as it has no influence, but just for once, it would be great to see them loose such a poll for the effect it would have on their morale.

    So, go on - vote. You know you want to...<D

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/controversial-hs2-rail-scheme-could-4987520
     
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  3. UrbanWorld

    UrbanWorld Member

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    83% say No.

    H2UK is the better idea. HS2 only connects "four" cities directly, meaning the rest loose out. HSUK is HS2 and HS3 in one package. It is a high speed backbone that has classic line branches to existing cities. The backbone takes HS trains nearly all the way. All cites gain. GreenGuage proposed HS2 and the government sucked in what they proposed without thinking. It is so bad it is understandable there is a massive backlash.
     
  4. swj99

    swj99 Member

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    so far
     
  5. bignosemac

    bignosemac Established Member

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    Why are those opposed to HS2 a mob?

    Already quite telling that the vote is so resolutely 'No'. It can't be all those directly affected by the line cutting through the Home Counties. Not many Daily Mirror readers among them I suspect.

    Just perhaps there are more people out there, like me, who think it is a cost that UK PLC can ill afford. Let's have targeted spending on regional infrastructure. Let's get our regional centres' productivity and growth up. Then we won't need more capacity to move people to and from London. The south-east is sucking the lifeblood out of the rest of the UK and giving little back in return.
     
  6. Snapper

    Snapper Established Member

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    As I explained. The anti Hs2 mob advertise these polls (wherever they appear)on their websites, encouraging their people to fiddle the polls. It has nothing to do with what newspapers they read & everything to do with fiddling polls!

    For example. I have evidence of a concerted campaign by the anti Hs2 groups to fiddle a poll in the Manchester Evening News. What's the MEN got to do with the Chilterns? Is it read there? Of course not. The point is the antis want to fiddle every newspaper poll they can to make it appear more people oppose Hs2 than really do.

    Is this dishonest? Yes, of course it is.
     
    Last edited: 21 Jan 2015
  7. NSEFAN

    NSEFAN Established Member

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    I think HS2 as it stands is a good way of solving the problem of capacity along the southern WCML, but I agree that it wouldn't be as necessary if London's economy wasn't being superheated compared to the other cities and regions of the UK. Perhaps we should have a policy of stagnating growth of London's transport and instead spending billions to create similar networks in Birmingham et al, to try and spread the load? Then again, would you really want every other city in the UK to be like London? ;)

    As for the poll, it's clear that the population are against HS2. The campaign against it has been very strong, and people genuinely believe it's all about journey times. The result of the poll make me glad that we aren't a direct democracy, where the loudest voice wins rather than the rational one.
     
  8. muddythefish

    muddythefish On Moderation

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    Treacherous talk. Wash your mouth out with soap and water !
     
  9. rmt4ever

    rmt4ever Member

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    Thanks for the link, I have registered my NO vote in the website.
     
  10. TUC

    TUC Established Member

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    It's just so striking that there wasn't the same level of interest shown by the media in Crossrail, despite its disruption and cost. Regardless of where in the country the votes in this poll came from, what I object to is the underlying assumption that anything for the south east is worth the disruption and cost whilst anything that disrupts the south east but is for the benefit of elsewhere must be scrutinised and justified.
     
  11. Ironside

    Ironside Member

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    Done.
     
  12. NLC1072

    NLC1072 Member

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    [Open sarcastic remark] Anything to stop those dirty northerners getting down here and getting their hands on OUR money!!! [Close sarcastic remark] :roll:
     
  13. Snapper

    Snapper Established Member

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    H2UK is someone drawing pretty lines on a big map. It has no support from anyone in the rail industry and it has no political or financial backing. It's an irrelevance - not an 'alternative' to Hs2.
     
  14. Aldaniti

    Aldaniti Member

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    It seems to be the OP's particular style: How to lose friends and alienate people. :lol:

    I agree with HS2, but there are so many things the existing railway needs to get right first.
     
  15. HowardGWR

    HowardGWR Established Member

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    That isn't a poll. This is a poll.

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/09/09/majority-now-oppose-hs2/

    However note that it is well over a year old. My point is that newspaper 'polls' aren't polls. They have no meaning or significance, except they can be scurrilously used as though they were polls by those who are prepared to tell porkies.:cry:
     
  16. Snapper

    Snapper Established Member

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    Why are they a mob?

    It's been my misfortune to deal with them for nearly four years now. In that time I've had threatening midnight phone calls, I've had my home address published on the internet to intimidate me, I've had homophobic insults thrown at me (rather wide of the mark, that one) I've been accused of pedophilia, I've been physically assaulted and, finally - I've had a crowd of a few hundred people boo me for doing my job and had to put up with this reaction:

    http://paulbigland.zenfolio.com/p898759480/h3ab789cc

    So, yes. In my eyes (and that of many others who've had to put up with their methods), they are a mob.
     
  17. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    They won't lose the poll. It's down to 81% no now, but I doubt there will be a massive swing.

    What's more, this is the Mirror and it seems that a lot of people now think of HS2 as being some nasty right-wing Tory idea, building a railway line for MPs and fatcats to use at the expense of the working classes* who will never be able to afford to step foot on the trains.

    So I don't really give a stuff what the antis think and the hollow victory they'll get from it.

    Maybe we can remind them of their success in winning this poll when eventually construction starts?

    * Ironic given the likely profile of an anti-HS2 campaigner.

    I have to agree, as they seem very organised. They also have people with a lot of influence and contacts, as well as the time and money to do a very good job.

    I do sympathise with some of them about the disruption during the construction phase, and the possible impact on house prices while that's being done, but the construction won't take forever and then everything goes back to normal. With the benefit of having improved transport on the 'classic' lines, I'd even go as far as to say that their precious house prices will go up.

    Still, we've seen in interviews that some people are actually demanding the area where people will be compensated is increased. So a lot of them are actually not fussed about HS2, just that they get a slice of the pie.
     
    Last edited: 21 Jan 2015
  18. blackfive460

    blackfive460 Member

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    Thanks for posting that, I wasn't aware of it.

    My NO vote has been added! :lol:
     
  19. Aldaniti

    Aldaniti Member

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    Whilst not excusing that sort of behaviour, perhaps you should ask yourself why? I don't see any other journalists who present their case in a mature, considered and reasoned manner, on the receiving end of this sort of thing. Then again, I don't see other journalists doing their best to wind people up on Twitter.
     
  20. Snapper

    Snapper Established Member

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    I know why. I get to them.
     
  21. Geezertronic

    Geezertronic Established Member

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    God forbid anyone who has a different opinion to them. The amount of inconsistencies, emotive tosh and downright lies spouted by some of the anti brigade beggars belief. When I used to bother reading it, the StopHS2 website was always a source of amusement for their inaccuracies. The photo linked by Paul is an example of their guard slipping

    Like others have said, where were they when CrossRail, Thameslink, M25 (and other large infrastructure projects that I cannot be bothered to remember right now) were proposed & created? If anything, the advance of the internet over the years has given these people a forum to spout their "version of events". I wonder how many of them were on the front line during the building of the M40 and now use the M40...
     
  22. NSEFAN

    NSEFAN Established Member

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    Supposedly, HS2 would not be needed if we had fast internet instead, since we could all sit at home, sending emails and using teleconferencing. If that is the world we'd like to live in, then I suggest we should also cancel upgrades to roads and other transport too, as we won't even have to get out of our seats to do work. We can also close down the high streets, as we can order things online and have them delivered to us. All our needs shall be catered for without having to even get up.

    I suppose that this is the future that some people seem to be advocating:

    [​IMG]

    :D
     
  23. AE

    AE Member

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    In order for any poll to have any validity, it must be based on a representative sample of the population being investigated otherwise it is not possible to accurately reflect the views of that population.

    That's exactly where the skill of the professional polling companies comes into play. That is why their polls have some validity, whereas polls such as The Mirror's are pointless and meaningless and may as well not be conducted for all the information that they provide.

    Nevertheless, people who should know better quote them to shore up their arguments. It's all quite depressing really.

    To be honest, I don't know why news organisations run them at all. They ought to know better.
     
  24. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    It will give them a story in the future, stating that nn% were in favour/against in a recent poll.
     
  25. PermitToTravel

    PermitToTravel Established Member

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    As someone who's undecided on HS2, I think this is incredibly hypocritical of you
     
  26. Harbon 1

    Harbon 1 Member

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    Registered my NO vote, thanks for the heads up ;)
     
  27. GatwickDepress

    GatwickDepress Established Member

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    There's something irritatingly smug about the people who say "Thanks for the link, I'm voting NO! ;)". I think it's the winking smiley.

    It's to attract traffic and stimulate debate - read: people rushing to the site to see a poo-slinging match.

    It's the local newspapers where you get the real vindictive stuff though .Put a poll up about a local parish councillor and, by the end of the day, there will be someone accusing them of masterminding the Cuban missile crisis!
     
  28. transmanche

    transmanche Established Member

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    Without wishing to drag this thread off topic, there's a really good example of this in the 21 Jan edition of the Daily Express. The headline claims that a poll shows that "80% want to quit EU" - but The Independent points out that the poll was only carried out in the constituencies of three Conservative MPs, had an 11% response rate and that the ballot paper was not exactly unbiased.

    Then you can compare that 80% result to the latest YouGov poll which shows 44% of people want to leave. I know which one I believe to be more accurate!
     
  29. Snapper

    Snapper Established Member

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    Hypocritical? It's a fact & I have the evidence to prove it.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Quite. Yet some people ignore all that and are quick to leap to their defense. You do have to wonder why...
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Exactly. These polls are meaningless but the anti Hs2 mob desperately fiddle them as their campaign's failed & this is pretty much all they have left. It's the only thing they can manipulate as MPs have seen through their deceits & intelligent folks aren't fooled by them.
     
  30. PermitToTravel

    PermitToTravel Established Member

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    This thread is. "I think some people are sabotaging a poll. Let's sabotage this poll!"
     
  31. Snapper

    Snapper Established Member

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    Exactly. These polls are meaningless but the anti Hs2 mob desperately fiddle them as their campaign's failed & this is pretty much all they have left. It's the only thing they can manipulate as MPs have seen through their deceits & intelligent folks aren't fooled by them.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Nonsense. I'm bringing to other people's attention & highlighting the anti Hs2 mobs deceitful tactics that some people seem very keen to ignore or excuse. If folk want to redress the balance that's up to them.

    I've already pointed out these polls are meaningless in the greater scheme of things, so they can hardly be 'sabotaged' when both sides engage. But they can be manipulated when only one side plays that game...
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Quite. It's another fallacious argument from the antis that ignores inconvenient facts.

    Despite the rise in all these internet based gadgets, teleconferencing etc, railpax numbers have grown every year bar one since 1992 - and they continue to grow now.
     
    Last edited: 22 Jan 2015
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