A career as a train driver

[FR510]

Is there actually an age limit for the job.

I mean, would someone in their mid 40's be considered as a Trainee Driver if they applied? Or would the TOC not consider that a good investment, for around 20 years of driving.

I've had a trainee of 59. So it may depend on company policy. But, as others have said mid 40s is OK.

 

[JohnnyOne]

Is there actually an age limit for the job.

I mean, would someone in their mid 40's be considered as a Trainee Driver if they applied? Or would the TOC not consider that a good investment, for around 20 years of driving.

I'm 45 waiting on a course (Hopefully this year..) I'm expecting to be the oldest in the classroom.

 

[New York Giant]

I'm 45 waiting on a course (Hopefully this year..) I'm expecting to be the oldest in the classroom.

I'm 44 and waiting on next steps after completing OPC and DMI with a different TOC. Still potentially got 20 years of service to offer. I expect to be the greyest in the classroom (subject to the medical).

 

[12LDA28C]

I'm 44 and waiting on next steps after completing OPC and DMI with a different TOC. Still potentially got 20 years of service to offer. I expect to be the greyest in the classroom (subject to the medical).

Perfectly possible to keep on driving into your 70s if you want to.

 

[Aviator88]

Perfectly possible to keep on driving into your 70s if you want to.

The TOC I'm joining has a mandatory retirement age of 65 due to union agreements. Is this something that's becoming more common, or is it still an outlier?

 

[43066]

The TOC I'm joining has a mandatory retirement age of 65 due to union agreements. Is this something that's becoming more common, or is it still an outlier?

Still an outlier, and something I have no idea why unions campaign for. Direct discrimination on the grounds of age should have no place in age where we are meant to be striving for more equality.

 

[Aviator88]

Still an outlier, and something I have no idea why unions campaign for. Direct discrimination on the grounds of age should have no place in age where we are meant to be striving for more equality.

I was going to say that it would be far better to offer the option of retiring at 65, but of course that's the law anyway!

I agree. Especially for those who enjoy their job and actively wish to continue, I could see it being rather depressing to be forced out of the career you love, provided you can still meet the medical standards.

 

[43066]

I was going to say that it would be far better to offer the option of retiring at 65, but of course that's the law anyway!

There is an exception to the general legal position for bringing new people into the industry, or some such, and the unions lobby employers to use this as a justification.

I agree. Especially for those who enjoy their job and actively wish to continue, I could see it being rather depressing to be forced out of the career you love, provided you can still meet the medical standards.

Absolutely. Especially in an era where it can no longer be guaranteed that people will be in a financial position to retire at 60, or whenever. I can think of a couple of drivers who have needed to keep working for family/personal reasons.

I suspect few of those still working crazy traincrew shifts at 70+ will be doing so through choice!

 

[Aviator88]

Absolutely. Especially in an era where it can no longer be guaranteed that people will be in a financial position to retire at 60, or whenever. I can think of a couple of drivers who have needed to keep working for family/personal reasons.

I suspect few of those still working crazy traincrew shifts at 70+ will be doing so through choice!

I think the important consideration is that many train drivers (and I think this is true for most occupations), especially those of a certain age, can only earn the type of money they're used to by driving trains. Even if they have other professional qualifications, you're not going to find a well paid job elsewhere at 60 +, probably.

I guess the devil's advocate position is that if you know you're not going to be able to earn past 65, you plan for that accordingly. This only works on paper, though, and the real world works a lot differently. I can't remember the last time a '5 year plan' worked out exactly how I'd hoped, for instance.

 

[43066]

I think the important consideration is that many train drivers (and I think this is true for most occupations), especially those of a certain age, can only earn the type of money they're used to by driving trains. Even if they have other professional qualifications, you're not going to find a well paid job elsewhere at 60 +, probably.

I guess the devil's advocate position is that if you know you're not going to be able to earn past 65, you plan for that accordingly. This only works on paper, though, and the real world works a lot differently. I can't remember the last time a '5 year plan' worked out exactly how I'd hoped, for instance.

Yes indeed, but for those whose lives take unforeseen turns, and who may therefore need to keep working beyond an arbitrary retirement age, it seems bizzare that their own union would have argued for their employer to be able to get rid of them.

I believe that people should be free to continue to work for as long as they need or want to, so long as they remain medically fit, regardless of age.

 

[whoosh]

Still an outlier, and something I have no idea why unions campaign for.

Idealism.
Retire at retirement age, having worked all your life on the railway. With a good railway pension. Make room for young person, starting on the railway. Job for life.
All nice and neat.
Ideal even.

Yes indeed, but for those whose lives take unforeseen turns, and who may therefore need to keep working beyond an arbitrary retirement age, it seems bizzare that their own union would have argued for their employer to be able to get rid of them.

I believe that people should be free to continue to work for as long as they need or want to, so long as they remain medically fit, regardless of age.

Real world.

Person joins railway in their 50s. Did have a pension in their workplace, but a miltary coup, and a collapse of the currency in their country of origin means its worth less than one British penny, so they only have what they can make on the railway between their 50s and when they feel ready for retirement to put in their railway pension. Fortunately, the TOC where they work does not have Employer Justified Retirement Age (EJRA), and they retire at 70.*



--------------

[Unreliable] Driver A: "I've messed up [yet] again/been 'off sick' [yet] again and am on MFA stage 9(!)"
Union: "We've got your back"

[Reliable] Driver B: "I've reached state retirement age."
Union: "See ya!"
Driver B: "But my daughter has been left in a financial mess by her ex-husband, and I just need need to do an extra year or two to help her and the grandchildren out."
Union: "Sorry, we pushed for an Employer Justified Retirement Age at this TOC. You can always get a job at B & Q, or maybe a fly by night FOC that we have no recognition at, and much worse pay, terms and conditions."
Driver B: "But I work here. I have a job here. I just want to stay a bit longer!"
Union: "Hard luck. I can't believe you are trying to take a good job with good terms and conditions away from a 21 year old in the queue to join the railway! How selfish."
Driver B: "But it's MY job! Why can't they have Driver A's job if that's your concern?!"
Union: "Because Driver A's job is Driver A's job, and we'll defend that. Your job isn't your job when you reach retirement age. It's a 21 year olds [even if it's actually really given to someone in their 50s]."


--------

I believe Avanti West Coast and Cross Country have EJRA in place.



*Based on a true story.

 

[irish_rail]

Yes indeed, but for those whose lives take unforeseen turns, and who may therefore need to keep working beyond an arbitrary retirement age, it seems bizzare that their own union would have argued for their employer to be able to get rid of them.

I believe that people should be free to continue to work for as long as they need or want to, so long as they remain medically fit, regardless of age.

The trouble is, too many choose to stay on despite not needing to, but because they want to. Which I guess is fair enough, however it is also true they are blocking a younger person from entering the career.

 

[Horizon22]

The trouble is, too many choose to stay on despite not needing to, but because they want to. Which I guess is fair enough, however it is also true they are blocking a younger person from entering the career.

I partly agree.

For one I think it is quite sad when people continue on and they when they do eventually retire after 30+ years on the railway and it's been their life for so long and within a year they've passed away as they were so engrained in "railway life" with limited connections outside it. People should enjoy a well earned retirement.

At the same time, telling people to arbitarily retire without understanding personal circumstances and perhaps a tailored, professional retirement discussion isn't ideal either.

 

[12LDA28C]

The trouble is, too many choose to stay on despite not needing to, but because they want to. Which I guess is fair enough, however it is also true they are blocking a younger person from entering the career.

This argument would hold more water if there wasn't an ongoing shortage of drivers across the industry, as there has been for many years as evidenced by the reliance of many TOCs on Rest Day Working to run the advertised timetable.

 

[irish_rail]

This argument would hold more water if there wasn't an ongoing shortage of drivers across the industry, as there has been for many years as evidenced by the reliance of many TOCs on Rest Day Working to run the advertised timetable.

Fair point. One problem I can see is that many of those that stay on choose to go part time, which is fine, but not especially useful in the grand scheme of things when they maybe do 2 days a week on one limited route and traction. There are of course exceptions, but there is an argument that those going part time are not perhaps as useful as full time drivers.

 

[43066]

The trouble is, too many choose to stay on despite not needing to, but because they want to. Which I guess is fair enough, however it is also true they are blocking a younger person from entering the career.

But nobody is owed a career, and ASLEF should be looking out for people who’ve paid into its coffers for decades, rather than those who’ve yet to join the industry. Plus as noted above the “younger people” often aren’t that much younger (as @whoosh ’s example shows)!

How many are staying on because they want to rather than need to, in any case? The examples I can think of have really needed to keep working.

At the same time, telling people to arbitarily retire without understanding personal circumstances and perhaps a tailored, professional retirement discussion isn't ideal either.

The whole point of equalities legislation is to move away from discrimination based on lazy assumptions about people, eg the idea of that once you’re a certain age you must therefore be financially comfortable and not need to work anymore. For this reason it’s now unlawful for most businesses to dismiss people by virtue of attaining a certain age, so I find it incredible that a trade union of all things is badgering employers to jump through hoops to keep a directly discriminatory mandatory retirement age in place!

 

[irish_rail]

How many are staying on because they want to rather than need to, in any case? The examples I can think of have really needed to keep working

Have they? Or have they invented an excuse to tell workmates. Its not hard to just say the mortgage isn't paid off or whatever.
Once again,I'm not saying I'm against working on particularly, just playing devil's advocate based on what I can see. I'd say at TOCs like GWR and Avanti there is probably more of a case of wanting to stay on due to the better nature of work compared with some of the commuter TOCs.

 

[whoosh]

Back when you had to retire at 65, I saw a driver on his last day and he looked totally lost. Like his world was crashing down. He should've been able (and only a few years later, after the law changed, would've been able) to choose when to leave himself.

I've seen plenty choose to retire early.

You should choose when to leave. What people most dread, is failing a medical and not being fit to do the job anymore - you've no choice, it has been taken from you.
The lack of control of your own life with an Employer Justified Retirement Age is similar, I think.

 

[Croydon1991]

Hi all does anyone know if GTR / Southern / Thameslink are planning on a recruitment drive for trainee drivers this year? Thanks

 

[Reetzaboi]

Hey everyone does anybody know the shift pattern for Xc train driver at Birmingham new street.
Cheers

 

[Croydon1991]

QQ - if you’ve failed at DMI stage but passed all assessments including MMI this doesn’t go down as a life lost and can you apply to other TOC’s straight away? TIA

 

[TacoTraveller]

QQ - if you’ve failed at DMI stage but passed all assessments including MMI this doesn’t go down as a life lost and can you apply to other TOC’s straight away? TIA

As it's not a part of testing and therefore cooling off period, I don't see why not.

You may have problems reapplying with the same TOC within 6 months of that I'm not sure but it's a possibility.

EDIT: I missed the life lost - no, it's not a life lost.

 

[Croydon1991]

As it's not a part of testing and therefore cooling off period, I don't see why not.

You may have problems reapplying with the same TOC within 6 months of that I'm not sure but it's a possibility.

EDIT: I missed the life lost - no, it's not a life lost.

Good news thank you! I really hope either GX, Southern or Thameslink open up again for trainees, but am aware they had a recruitment drive late last year.

Thanks again!

 

[12LDA28C]

You may have problems reapplying with the same TOC within 6 months of that I'm not sure but it's a possibility.

It's pretty unlikely you'd get another interview with a TOC at which you'd just failed the DMI...

 

[Croydon1991]

It's pretty unlikely you'd get another interview with a TOC at which you'd just failed the DMI...

I’m not applying for the same TOC that’s quite a wait. But I will be when suitable applying to another TOC……

 

[TacoTraveller]

It's pretty unlikely you'd get another interview with a TOC at which you'd just failed the DMI...

That's why I said, you'd probably have problems reapplying with the same TOC within what is usually 6 months.

But if it's a completely different TOC I don't see why not, the DMI failure wouldn't need to be disclosed unlike if you'd failed part of the assessments.

 

[Croydon1991]

That's why I said, you'd probably have problems reapplying with the same TOC within what is usually 6 months.

But if it's a completely different TOC I don't see why not, the DMI failure wouldn't need to be disclosed unlike if you'd failed part of the assessments.

My thoughts exactly! Cheers dude.

 

[ComUtoR]

Be VERY careful with the wording on some applications. They have been known to say "cannot apply if you ave failed any part of the process within the past 6 months"

That would limit DMI failures at other TOCs too

 

[Croydon1991]

Be VERY careful with the wording on some applications. They have been known to say "cannot apply if you ave failed any part of the process within the past 6 months"

That would limit DMI failures at other TOCs too

Thanks for the tip! I will bear this in mind.