A career as a train driver

[VWCampervanman]

This is genuinely so helpful thank you so much and congratulations on being offered the position! Do you have to wait long until you start? Out of curiosity. is the bourdon test meant to be the hardest? What test did you find the most difficult? Of course everyone is different but just trying to gauge just how hard it all is! I'm doing the practice material every night and debating whether to do the 'how2' day too. If I fail then I don't want it to be due to lack of preparation or anything! Thanks again, really appreciate it!

I think statistically the Group Bourdon is the one most people fail, Thats probably why they have it first . But it is a level playing field, no trick questions, you know what is required , ( obviously we dont know the exact marking criteria )

You have to pass all of the tasks, so its important that you give them all the same amount of effort , I think I found them equally difficult , apart from the concentration task... That I found easy, I could have done that for another 30 mins , for me ( and this really surprised me ) It was the MMI interview that I was most worried about, and to be honest I came away not convinced that I had done enough .

Im not sure about the how2 course ... as everyone on this great forum says, all the information is readily available on here for free.. but, I understand that it MIGHT give you something extra, MAYBE a little more confidence ?. Its easy for me now to be judgemental , I was fortunate and passed everything first time, If I had failed any of the stages I would have re applied , but would I then of thought maybe I should have done one of the how2 courses.? Impossible to be sure.

My other bit of advice would be, if you are not sure then ask for clarification , I did . At one point the examiner asked if anyone wanted him to repeat what was required, I was the only one that asked him to go through it again, and I am glad that I did , I had slightly misunderstood something .

The thing to remember is that although it is obviously very important, you do get 2 attempts , no one will die , If you fail then regroup, reapply and try again.

 

[dazzayid]

Like others have said, knowone knows what the pass mark is but if you can get around 10 lines complete with 0 mistakes u will be fine. I practiced a lot and the more you practice the easier it is to recognise the patterns and that makes it easier. Personally I found the dots one of the easiest parts, but we started with 12 people and by the end of the dots 6 had gone home.

 

[djsmith200]

I honestly believe that no one knows the answer to this.

I have recently been offered a job as a trainee driver, so have been successful at all the stages.

My advice re the Group Bourdon is to practice at home... which I suspect you are already doing, the way I did it was to time myself doing it two different ways, the first way was to look at the individual boxes and scan for the groups of 4 , crossing them as I went , the second way was to literally count each dot in each individual box and say in my head how many i could see , 3, 5 3, 4 etc etc after doing a few test runs I would check how many lines I had completed and how many errors I had.
What I found was that the first way was quicker... I could complete probably 2 more lines , but ... I had more errors. For me the second way was the more accurate. And this was the method that I used on the day.

Looking around the room , the people who's papers I could see whilst being collected , most had completed more lines than me .
I was the only candidate that progressed after lunch, obviously I have no way of knowing at what stage they had failed.

This is only my feeling, so please don't take it that I know anymore than anyone else... but I suspect that accuracy is of primary importance ,( They do state that accuracy and speed are of equal importance tho ) obviously there is no point in only completing 2 lines , but also if you complete 22 lines but 18 lines have errors that would also not be good. I made it my goal to be accurate over speed, with practice I managed to improve on both. I cant remember how many lines I completed .

I was amazed that some people on the assessment day had not been working through the practice material that we all were sent , I pushed my date back a week , to give myself more time to study .

I also believe that peoples brains are wired differently , and for some it is easier to complete the tasks than for others, nothing to do with intelligence , just the way we are . Fortunately for me, I have a very logical , methodical way of thinking.
The most important thing is tho, get a good nights sleep before , and leave yourself plenty of time to get to the test centre, one person was late so was not allowed to participate , and one person was only just in time, so was under pressure before they started .

I actually quite enjoyed the day !

Good luck .

where did you get your Bourdon test practice sheets from mate any recommendations?

 

[KourosLloyd]

I think statistically the Group Bourdon is the one most people fail, Thats probably why they have it first . But it is a level playing field, no trick questions, you know what is required , ( obviously we dont know the exact marking criteria )

You have to pass all of the tasks, so its important that you give them all the same amount of effort , I think I found them equally difficult , apart from the concentration task... That I found easy, I could have done that for another 30 mins , for me ( and this really surprised me ) It was the MMI interview that I was most worried about, and to be honest I came away not convinced that I had done enough .

Im not sure about the how2 course ... as everyone on this great forum says, all the information is readily available on here for free.. but, I understand that it MIGHT give you something extra, MAYBE a little more confidence ?. Its easy for me now to be judgemental , I was fortunate and passed everything first time, If I had failed any of the stages I would have re applied , but would I then of thought maybe I should have done one of the how2 courses.? Impossible to be sure.

My other bit of advice would be, if you are not sure then ask for clarification , I did . At one point the examiner asked if anyone wanted him to repeat what was required, I was the only one that asked him to go through it again, and I am glad that I did , I had slightly misunderstood something .

The thing to remember is that although it is obviously very important, you do get 2 attempts , no one will die , If you fail then regroup, reapply and try again.

Thanks mate, again really helpful. How tough was the fault finding test? I feel as though the group bourdon should be fine if I keep my concentration. I'm currently doing quite well in my practices (or at least I hope I am) but my first practice of the fault finding didn't go so great. Also, where did you get the practice sheets for the group bourdon? I've used the test sheets that came in the preparation pack so far but I know it's a fair bit different. Thanks again mate!

 

[VWCampervanman]

I actually bought the group bourdon practice papers from how2 , from memory they where either £9.99 or there abouts.. I think it is possible to down load some from this site somewhere.

All the other tests where quite challenging , as you would expect . They do send you ones to practice with, as said previously, take your time and make sure you understand what is required of you, These tests are designed to determine if you have the skills to learn how to become a train driver , not if you can already drive a train.
So all the information is given to you, try not to stress too much, do the practice examples and try ( I know its hard ) to relax and enjoy it .
.

 

[Sotac464]

His guy's new here. I too received an email today inviting me too the assessment day which is a week Monday. I work full time at the moment and it doesn't give me much time too practice. Do you think I could call the opc and maybe refer to a later date? Any help would be most welcome.

 

[Johncleesefan]

His guy's new here. I too received an email today inviting me too the assessment day which is a week Monday. I work full time at the moment and it doesn't give me much time too practice. Do you think I could call the opc and maybe refer to a later date? Any help would be most welcome.

No, you will have to make time to practice, a trainee driver works full time hours and has to do homework so start early

 

[KourosLloyd]

His guy's new here. I too received an email today inviting me too the assessment day which is a week Monday. I work full time at the moment and it doesn't give me much time too practice. Do you think I could call the opc and maybe refer to a later date? Any help would be most welcome.

Did you not get given the option of picking a date mate? I was given 4 or 5 dates to choose from. I really wanted to pick the first one but thought it through and chose one 6 weeks away to give me time to prepare. Having said that, I work full time and often don't leave the office until late but I've managed to work through the practice tests three times so far. Just dedicate all spare time to it and I'm sure you'll be fine mate

 

[Sotac464]

Did you not get given the option of picking a date mate? I was given 4 or 5 dates to choose from. I really wanted to pick the first one but thought it through and chose one 6 weeks away to give me time to prepare. Having said that, I work full time and often don't leave the office until late but I've managed to work through the practice tests three times so far. Just dedicate all spare time to it and I'm sure you'll be fine mate

It's with MTR crossrail and that's the only date I've been given. Looking at the forum's for the Plumstead base depot, somebody else got an email from them today too, and there's is in April. So obviously I feel at a disadvantage plus I've got to try and get the day off work. Started practicing tonight so I'll be certainly giving it my best shot. Best of luck mate.

 

[KourosLloyd]

It's with MTR crossrail and that's the only date I've been given. Looking at the forum's for the Plumstead base depot, somebody else got an email from them today too, and there's is in April. So obviously I feel at a disadvantage plus I've got to try and get the day off work. Started practicing tonight so I'll be certainly giving it my best shot. Best of luck mate.

Thanks mate and you. Definitely sounds like it's worth giving them a call to see what they say. Maybe if you just explain about wanting to be fully prepped they'll understand? Hope you smash it buddy

 

[choochoochoo]

Hoping someone might be able to remember....

What was the name of the test with the 5 colour circles/hi and lo tones,yellow squares ? I'm trying to find the practice tool that would randomly generate those images/tones.

Also on a side note am I the only pedantic one who is bugged by the ATAVT test and the fact that there is an option for motor vehicles AND motorcycle/scooters. Throughout my car driving career I've considered motorbikes and scooters as motor vehicles !! Surely a better description is 2-wheelers

 

[Traininday]

dont think they use that test anymore, but i think if you type schuhfried reaction test into youtube you can find it.

 

[choochoochoo]

thanks, I know its not part of my upcoming assessment, but still good practice for the WAFV part.

 

[Traininday]

to be honest it would be better if you open microsoft word, create a grey square and try to stare at it for 30mins. the problem with this test (although i didn't miss or hit any incorrectly) is that the square flashing might look like it's going dark when it isn't. if you can stare at a grey square on your computer for 30mins it will prepare you for the test easily. another tip is you might work out a certain pattern depending on when everyone is hitting the button when the square goes dark on their screen.

 

[DunfordBridge]

Hoping someone might be able to remember....

What was the name of the test with the 5 colour circles/hi and lo tones,yellow squares ? I'm trying to find the practice tool that would randomly generate those images/tones.

Also on a side note am I the only pedantic one who is bugged by the ATAVT test and the fact that there is an option for motor vehicles AND motorcycle/scooters. Throughout my car driving career I've considered motorbikes and scooters as motor vehicles !! Surely a better description is 2-wheelers

Not sure what the test was called now - some weird acronym - but the emphasis on driver testing seems to have moved away from how well you can play space invaders to your ability to remain chilled but vigilant whilst being bored out of your head.

If you really insist on the coloured circles test, I am sure I could point you in the right direction. Just one note, the colours on the practice tool did not match there actual test, the sounds were quite different too.

 

[choochoochoo]

Thanks for the advice.

I've managed to find a copy of the software. - It was called the DTG test

You mean driving a train isn't like playing space invaders ?

 

[DunfordBridge]

Quite enjoyed the DTG test, obviously someone realised that train drivers do not spend their time focusing on flashing lights changing every other split second.

On reflection, if I was going to compare train driving to any video game, think I would choose Frogger, with people trying to cross the line at random.

 

[AnitaNuasy]

We are travelling from Manila to Batangas this Monday and need to rent a driver and a car to take us there with 10 month old baby. Could anyone give us a recommendation for this service please?

Thanks

 

[Mag_seven]

We are travelling from Manila to Batangas this Monday and need to rent a driver and a car to take us there with 10 month old baby. Could anyone give us a recommendation for this service please?

Thanks

I'm struggling to see what this has got to do with "becoming a train driver". Perhaps you would be better posting your question in "Trip Planning and reports"?

 

[djsmith200]

wow what a great thread this is! well worth reading. however im still after an answer to a question of mine if possible.
Im currently a firefighter due to take my stage 2 assessments and MMi next month. i am prepping like mad at the mo, but would like some advice on the MMi.
i am currently thinking of ideas for the possible questions;
dealing with a problem/solving a problem
taken on a difficult task
dealing with a situation
for those that have done this already and can remember-
obviously the questions are very close/similar to each other. did you get asked one of the above encompassing them all or did you get asked more than 1 of the above? am i best thinking of a practical task ive dealt with or a customer focused issue ive solved etc? im not sure how to approach it.

any advice would be greatly appreciated!
many thanks

 

[Saltire]

wow what a great thread this is! well worth reading. however im still after an answer to a question of mine if possible.
Im currently a firefighter due to take my stage 2 assessments and MMi next month. i am prepping like mad at the mo, but would like some advice on the MMi.
i am currently thinking of ideas for the possible questions;
dealing with a problem/solving a problem
taken on a difficult task
dealing with a situation
for those that have done this already and can remember-
obviously the questions are very close/similar to each other. did you get asked one of the above encompassing them all or did you get asked more than 1 of the above? am i best thinking of a practical task ive dealt with or a customer focused issue ive solved etc? im not sure how to approach it.

any advice would be greatly appreciated!
many thanks

From memory, as its almost 3 years ago, there were 6 questions on the MMI and I'm sure you'll find them all if you look back on this thread. The one piece of advice i would give is be very specific and don't try to BS the interviewer, they do ask in great detail.
One of the questions was "Tell us about a time you had to follow rules and procedures" I know you could give lots of examples but try to think of only one specific time - I used a time I was BAECO and had to deal with a BA emergency, even though the interviewer will have no idea of the rules we have to follow they will probe you for every detail and how you felt about the scenario.
Another question was "Tell me about a time you worked as part of a team" again you'll have hundreds of examples but just choose one and be prepared to give lots of detail. The example I used was carrying out a rescue from fast flowing water.
Interestingly enough the "Tell me about a time you dealt with an emergency" question I didn't use a work related incident and spoke about a time I witnessed an RTC whilst off duty.
I hope that helps and good luck :grin:

 

[djsmith200]

thanks for the advice! some good examples there! i thought of BA testing, tech bulletin 1/97 etc etc but BAECO in that scenario is a good one also as is the water rescue (didnt think of that!)

 

[djsmith200]

Just a quick question as I'm looking at the career change and I'd be very interested to know;
What are people's experiences with career progression etc after being a train driver? Is it possible to become a driver manager, driver instructor, ops/safety manager? Is it an exclusive 'boys club' or does the opportunity arise?
Also have many of you transferred to other TOCs etc etc? Was this easy to do, or is this difficult?

 

[NealFitz]

I am in the middle of my train driver training for NIR and completed my MMI over 2 years ago. Be prepared to give as much detail as possible in the questions. The interviewer will try to dig as much info as possible and try and trip you up so if unsure of an answer, do not make it up. You flesh out the answers in the interview but they will also give you scenarios. I came into the grade from the railway already so had real life examples for emergency situation and rules and procedures. However they also asked hypothetical scenarios and tried to gauge from those answers as well. I was in the MMI for 2.5 hours so expect it to last more than an hour.

 

[choochoochoo]

I am in the middle of my train driver training for NIR and completed my MMI over 2 years ago. Be prepared to give as much detail as possible in the questions. The interviewer will try to dig as much info as possible and try and trip you up so if unsure of an answer, do not make it up. You flesh out the answers in the interview but they will also give you scenarios. I came into the grade from the railway already so had real life examples for emergency situation and rules and procedures. However they also asked hypothetical scenarios and tried to gauge from those answers as well. I was in the MMI for 2.5 hours so expect it to last more than an hour.

It really depends on your examples. My MMI was 45 mins.

 

[Latecomer]

Just a quick question as I'm looking at the career change and I'd be very interested to know;
What are people's experiences with career progression etc after being a train driver? Is it possible to become a driver manager, driver instructor, ops/safety manager? Is it an exclusive 'boys club' or does the opportunity arise?
Also have many of you transferred to other TOCs etc etc? Was this easy to do, or is this difficult?

It is possible to progress to all of those roles after varying years of experience. However, take in to account that a lot of those roles are far more precarious than being a driver. The roles can disappear in the blink of an eye with a change of operator and they are also roles that can be subject to internal and external political pressure. At our TOC there has been something of a revolving door of DM's with quite few dropping back to the driver grade - the money isn't so very different. DI may be a worthwhile ambition but it isn't for everyone and it can get boring sitting on the second​ man side once the trainee is reasonably competent.

My advice would be to recognise that there are career development opportunities but that they often have greater pitfalls than being a driver. Concentrate first and foremost on becoming a truly competent and professional driver and do your very best to keep a clean Safety of Line record. If you do move on in future consider trying to take a role where you maintain competency as a driver in case you want to switch back. The DM role with some TOC's requires this, others don't.

 

[djsmith200]

It is possible to progress to all of those roles after varying years of experience. However, take in to account that a lot of those roles are far more precarious than being a driver. The roles can disappear in the blink of an eye with a change of operator and they are also roles that can be subject to internal and external political pressure. At our TOC there has been something of a revolving door of DM's with quite few dropping back to the driver grade - the money isn't so very different. DI may be a worthwhile ambition but it isn't for everyone and it can get boring sitting on the second​ man side once the trainee is reasonably competent.

My advice would be to recognise that there are career development opportunities but that they often have greater pitfalls than being a driver. Concentrate first and foremost on becoming a truly competent and professional driver and do your very best to keep a clean Safety of Line record. If you do move on in future consider trying to take a role where you maintain competency as a driver in case you want to switch back. The DM role with some TOC's requires this, others don't.

fantastic reply thanks for the detailed info!

 

[Learner]

sorry to sound so silly but what is meant by traction being kept up to date? what is traction?

 

[WDS2015]

sorry to sound so silly but what is meant by traction being kept up to date? what is traction?

Your traction is basically the type of train you are qualified to drive (after being trained)

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Your traction is basically the type of train you are qualified to drive (after being trained)

Sometimes when a driver signs one class of unit/loco they automatically sign another class at the same time. An example being SWTs 444s and 450s. Don't know if it also holds true for 465s and 466s