Been given a first-class reservation on a std ticket

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by Eagle, 3 Nov 2011.

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  1. Eagle

    Eagle Established Member

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    Thought I'd spin this off into a new thread so it gets more attention :P I know the answer's probably on the forum somewhere but the search function is unhelpful when your query contains more than one word...

    Basically I've booked standard advance singles on this itinerary with a 16–25 railcard, and on the outbound journey on the 10.20 BHM–EDB I've got reservations in coach K (the same table on both halves of the split, coincidentally), which is first class on a Pendolino. According to the NRTT first class hasn't been declassified on this service.

    So what's happened? Is there some VT policy of giving free upgrades to weekend railcard advances or something? Or is this just declassified and the NRTT is wrong?
     
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  3. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Not entirely sure but I believe that on double-voyager sets Coach K is Standard.
     
  4. Eagle

    Eagle Established Member

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    *facepalm*

    Why didn't I think of that? (It's A-B-C-D-F—G-H-J-K-L, right?)
     
  5. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    E apparently instead of F, unlike XC.

    It can be found here.

    I'm not sure about the diagrams so this is just one possible explanation.
     
  6. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Established Member

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    It's booked as a double Voyager, so K will be Standard class. It is however the hybrid coach (rotates between First/Std) so wifi is free and there are tables aplenty!
     
  7. All Line Rover

    All Line Rover Established Member

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    Well, you were partly correct. ;)

    A weird quirk I find with WebTIS is that, when I buy a First Class ticket that involves travel on multiple services (including some with Standard Class only), it issues all of the seat reservations as "STD," meaning I occasionally get some funny looks from the guard! However, the actual seat mentioned on the "STD" seat reservation is a First Class seat, and since I clearly have a First Class ticket, I don't have any "issues" with the guard.

    Even if you were issued with a First Class seat reservation on a Standard Class ticket, I would be inclined to say that you are not entitled to sit in First Class. A seat reservation does not give you permission to travel - it is only valid when accompanied by a valid ticket. When Advance tickets are brought into the equation, though (as in your case), we are going into murky waters! ;) It's pointless to speculate as I doubt this would ever happen.
     
  8. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Established Member

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    Ah, but if Eagle's train turns into a Pendolino there would be muddy waters there...! :lol:
     
  9. 185

    185 Established Member

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    It's Virgin.

    Sesame Street is brought to you by the numbers 2,2,1 and the letters A-E but no K, due to a technical fault K's working a Chester today. :(
     
  10. John @ home

    John @ home Established Member Fares Advisor

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    I think this depends on the circumstances. Let's suppose that at short notice Eagle's 1020 Birmingham - Edinburgh service is replaced by a Pendolino.

    If Virgin then cover over the Coach markings for K with a different letter, and cover the markings for a Standard coach with the letter K, then I would agree with All Line Rover that Eagle must sit in Standard accommodation.

    But if they fail to do this, then Eagle must still attempt to obey the Condition of the Advance ticket:
    In a position where it is not possible for all three of Class, Coach and Seat to be applicable, it seems to me that Eagle would be making the best effort to comply by sitting in the correct Coach and Seat shown on the mandatory reservation.
     
  11. Eagle

    Eagle Established Member

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    Heh, if that happens I'd probably end up giving up my seat to someone with a reservation for coach L... :roll:
     
  12. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    Bearing in mind a Pendo coach K has 18 seats and a Voyager coach K has 52, what happens if the seat shown doesn't exist on the Pendolino?
     
  13. Eagle

    Eagle Established Member

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    It's K44 and K48 (due to split tickets). To be honest I should have spotted that...
     
  14. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Established Member

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    He has to sit outside, or in the pantograph housing.

    :p
     
  15. All Line Rover

    All Line Rover Established Member

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    Or in the kitchen. :p
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    I'm not so sure. If I had a Standard Class seat reservation for Coache G, H, J or K for a doubled-up Super Voyager, and this train ended up being replaced by a Pendolino, I would not claim that I am "entitled" to sit in First Class, and for staff to try and reprogram the system so that different coach letters are displayed seems a little pointless.

    After all, as RJ points out, the seat numbers won't match up (some will be missing!) and on the rare occasion that a Super Voyager is replaced by a Pendolino at the last minute (or vice versa) the Train Manager always tells customers to ignore reservations. To follow rules to the letter 100% of the time - no matter what the circumstances are - would be a bit silly.
     
  16. island

    island Established Member

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    I agree with ALR. Only by the most tortured of interpretations can one conclude that a standard class ticket is valid in first class because the train is a pendo instead of a super duper voyager.

    I also like AlterEgo's suggestion :)
     
  17. scotsman

    scotsman Established Member

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    I'll point out that Brum - Edinburgh trains are somewhat random in the fact that they could be either Pendos or Voyagers at the moment
     
  18. premier01

    premier01 Member

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    Yes I've noticed that recently-is there a reason for this-Pendolinos are so much better than Voyagers so hopefully they will put more Pendolinos on this route.
     
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