Beeston - Bedford Routing?

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by DarloRich, 27 Apr 2015.

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  1. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    Is a Beeston to Bedford off peak return marked not London valid via Derby? I think it is via map NM.

    are there any other permitted routes?
     
  2. Merseysider

    Merseysider Established Member Fares Advisor

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    Fine via Derby, doubleback through Long Eaton's okay (member of Derby group). Not much choice, map NM's your lot but does mean you can go via or avoiding Leicester
     
  3. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    cheers! Has that changed? I thought in the past you could go via MK & the Marston Vale?
     
  4. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    You may well be right. I do also remotely remember Nottingham - Bedford being permitted via MKC. You have a PM.
     
  5. kieron

    kieron Established Member

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    You can go that way today. Nottingham to Bedford St. Johns is valid via Bedford or Bletchley. If you go via Bletchley, you are allowed to go via Burton on Trent, but not Birmingham.

    If you intend to travel through Bedford station, you may do that on that route, and may break your journey there, but you can't double back through Bedford St. John as well.
     
  6. dzug2

    dzug2 Member

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    'No fares have been found for your selected service'
     
  7. kieron

    kieron Established Member

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    You haven't said what your selected service is...

    With a bit of experimentation, NRE is happy to recommend tickets from Beeston to Ridgmont via Bletchley, but not Beeston-Lidlington ones. I don't know how to get any of the journey planners to show this route.

    I don't know if we can draw any inferences from this behaviour, especially when neither Ridgmont nor Lidlington appears in the current easement list.
     
    Last edited: 28 Apr 2015
  8. dzug2

    dzug2 Member

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    Any train on the selected date
     
  9. kieron

    kieron Established Member

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    There are a lot of trains on which a Beeston-Bedford off-peak return is not valid. Scotrail operate thousands of them almost every day.
    This should not come as a complete surprise to you.
     
    Last edited: 28 Apr 2015
  10. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

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    Really? Some evidence would be useful. Hang on, here it comes...
    That doesn't really back up your first statement. It's very easy to get journey planners to show the route (simply use Atherstone as a via point), they just won't show it as valid on one ticket which is what was being looked for and what you say is valid.

    He means that he is not specifying a time. But you knew that, didn't you.
     
  11. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    Trying which route?
     
  12. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    They're usually in different fare clusters for longer distance journeys. Often, the fare from stations between Ridgmont and Wolverton inclusive are better value than those from Lidlington to Bedford inclusive. For example, compare the SORs from Ridgmont and Lidlington to Market Harborough.
     
    Last edited: 28 Apr 2015
  13. kieron

    kieron Established Member

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    Sorry, National Rail Enquiries stopped being the ultimate arbiter of what is or isn't a valid route some time ago.
    I suppose this confusion was inevitable after your mistake above. I wasn't using NRE to validate the whole route, but only one aspect of it.

    Working out what is or isn't a valid route is mostly a fairly simple task. There are two things in it which can take a while.

    One is finding out what the shortest route for all or part of a journey is. This isn't relevant here.

    The other is finding out what easements affect a journey.

    As Ridgmont and Lidlington are adjacent stations on a line, I have assumed that any easement which affects journeys between Beeston and one of them would name the station it affects.

    As there are no easements like that, and there are no other reasons for either route to be invalid via Bletchley, I can only conclude that the rules NRE is following which lead to that judgement are not ones in the published Routeing Guide.
    That's the case here.

    Beeston-Lidlington has a £57.10 SOS and a £35.10 SVS. Beeston-Bedford stations is the same.
    Beeston-Ridgmont has a £43.40 SOS and no SVS. Beeston-Bletchley is the same.

    As £57.10 is more than £43.40, Beeston-Lidlington should be valid via Bletchley or Bedford. Beeston-Bedford St. Johns should be valid to either for the same reason.

    Beeston-Ridgmont should also be valid either way. Bletchley passes the fare check. Bedford doesn't, but the shortest route is via Bedford, and every Nottingham-Bedford route is part of a Nottingham-Bletchley route anyway. All Beeston-Ridgmont tickets allow you to stop short, so you don't actually need to go to Bletchley to benefit from this.
     
  14. causton

    causton Established Member

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    How so?

    http://data.atoc.org/routeing-guide
     
  15. kieron

    kieron Established Member

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    It is so because the page you quoted from says it is so. Unfortunately, you failed to quote the section which answered your question.

    The page begins:

    Routeing Guide Data

    This guide shows the full range of permitted routes available for use with tickets on the National Rail network.​

    I hope this addresses your concern.
     
  16. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    Looking at the routing guide it appears my tickets is NOT valid via Birmingham/Tamworth & Bletchley. Can someone link me to the section of the guide that supports the information given by Kieron?

    I have looked again and the ticket i hold (off peak Bedford - Beeston Return) in my view only seems to be valid on map NM which is the Midland Main Line.

    thanks for the PM. Points noted
     
  17. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    Presumably for a Beeston to Bedford St Johns journey, Bletchley is an appropriate routeing point. Beeston to Bedford St Johns is more expensive thatn Beeston to Bletchley.
     
  18. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    The very section you quote only "stongly advises" use of the journey planner; it does not mandate its use.
     
  19. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    is it not Nottingham Group to Bedford group on the maps?
     
  20. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    The powers that be keep changing the NRG - if it ever was, Bedford is no longer a routeing group. Since 2013 it has been subject to constant changes, such that there is no point in learning what's in it any more - you have to recheck it before you travel.
     
    Last edited: 1 May 2015
  21. kieron

    kieron Established Member

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    No, there's no Bedford group on the maps. As the table says, Bedford St. Johns is associated with Bedford and Bletchley. Bedford is a routeing point.

    West Hampstead's similar, except that the Overground station of that name isn't associated with West Hampstead Thameslink at all.
     
  22. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    But Bedford (Midland) isn't valid via Bletchley. I expect that will be changed now it is out in the open!
     
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