Beginning to think its who you know, not what you know to get into the Rail Industry

I can see a few potential reasons why:-

-Since you haven't been getting many interviews, I wonder if the CV has been well written and has been tailor made for these roles. (I'm very happy to review your CV)
-By applying for many roles, this could make you look desperate, rather than locations where you are nearby
-They might likely have your previous interview performance in their notes, including that you have worked with them last year. How well did you performance?

 

Or it could be the fact that a lot of people want to be train drivers. So this means the train comanys can be picky as much as they want.

 

If you read the original post it makes it pretty clear we are not for once talking train driving

In terms of being Ex BR I get the impression private companies don't like candidates relying on this as it can come across over complacent and the railways have changed a lot for example a much greater emphasis on customer service

 

Isn't getting into the rail industry the hardest thing you will ever do.. Keep at it

I remember how hard my interview was to do a pretty menial job when I joined the rail industry three and a half years ago

 

I wonder what the draw of railway work is? Perhaps people who have joined the rail industry recently can say what the appeal is?

 

AndyN, I may be wrong but quite a few of the companies I have applied for in the past (not just on the railway) have a 6 month rule where if you don't get a role you have to wait six months to re-apply. Not sure whether this is true with Northern but it is a possibility if all 9 applications have been to them.

I don't know if you would consider other TOCs but if you were to apply to one of those then you may stand a better chance. Rather than applying separately for all locations I'd be tempted to focus getting to interview for one and depending on who interviews you, asking if they'd consider recruiting you for other locations too.

 

And there is your answer. If Northern employ you directly, within a certain time frame, they will have to pay the agency a fee for "introducing" you. Standard practice in any industry.
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Complete B******T!
It's the most transparent selection process I've come across.

I got a trainee driver job despite knowing no one, and I moved onto one of the more desired driving positions, in a very short time, again knowing no one.

 

If your CV is anything like this post with the mistakes, poor grammar and structure that is the reason and nothing to do with what or who you know, sorry to criticise but you really need to work on your presentation to even be considered for any job nowadays.
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I would say the majority of applicants for railway jobs are enthusiasts and that is without doubt the draw!

 

Being someone who has reviewed candidates for various job roles, I have to agree with TDK. If I saw a CV or covering letter like this, it would almost immediately go in the NO pile. Only if my brief glance at the experience section caught my attention would I consider it any further.

The last role I vetted CVs for, I was one of three people doing so, and we probably interviewed 4 out of 20 of the agencies proposals. Most were rejected on lack of suitable experience, but a few due to presentation of CV.

 

It's certainly not a " it's not what you know it's who you know environment" mate! In fact it's the complete opposite given that the paper sift is arguably the most difficult part of the process for any job on the railway!

Gone are the days where you could get a job on the railway because you are my dad's best mate's cousins best mates sister! HR have a massive say in it these days!

Don't be bitter and make claims like that buddy!......be proactive and get your application/CV up to scratch! As I bet that's what the problem is (no offence meant) remember when it comes to applying for these jobs where lots go for them small things on an application form make a big difference!

This isn't BR buddy you're dealing with a completely different animal!

Good luck mate!
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if you can't see what the appeal is despite being on a rail forum you obviously haven't done enough research!

 

Off the record, TOC's have their reasons for employing certain people. There are so many government schemes out there for employers to take someone off the street and train them up as they can claim back training costs, wages etc. It makes more sense to do this for financial reasons. Also (and no TOC will ever tell you this) rail companies don't seem very keen on employing ex-railway workers. Why employ a potential hard line trade unionist or someone with experience in the railway who actually know their rights when you can employ someone who has given their eye teeth to get into the role and will take any flak thrown at them from the managers?
Railway firms are swamped with applications for each and every job. People see it as a good career move with a relatively secure job so the rail companies do have a good selection of candidates for the post advertised.

Keep trying for every post you see. It doesn't smack of desperation, it actually says to a potential employer you are determined to get a job.
It may feel harsh for members to mention your grammatical errors but it is a very fair point. With the amount of applications and CV's landing on the desk of HR for every job all it takes is for one or two stand out errors to have that application binned. There are web sites you can visit which will help you understand where you may be going wrong with your covering letter and help you sort it. It is difficult to get a foot in but the rewards can be massive. I know several people who have climbed the internal ladder and have landed great roles within the company. Getting in is by far the most difficult thing to do. Good luck!

 

Just to say, I am amazed at how the selection process new starters go through has changed in the past five years. There are so many hoops to jump through, the only advantage that family of rail-staff would have is they might be able to get a better insight into what information and answers to give on the application form and various interviews involved.

Things rotate a lot more around "Psychometric" type analysis, I believe, and with the numbers involved, I believe on-line forms are scanned by computers for particular key words or phrases in an initial sift.

Again, to echo others, it might be worth the OP getting their CV professionally updated. If the previous approach has failed so often, a new approach is needed.

 

I see a lot of negativity in this post and I sincerely hope for your sake there are no NR managers reading this.

If you have been knocked back "9 times", then surely there must be a reason? Anyone can clean a train but its more than whether or not the person can actually do the job. The person spec is important. I don't know the specifics of this job but at minimum, I'm guessing the TOC want somebody who is reliable, turns up on time and does the time without complaining.

Perhaps you need to have a look at your own personal spec and see if you can work out for yourself why you haven't been successful.

There is also the possibility that you are overqualified for the job which NR fear might command a higher salary if they took you on

I vet many CV's and interviewed many people in my time so I have some idea of what I'm talking about

 

I'd start with having the CV looked over. It's like what you wear when you arrive for an interview, 1st impressions and all that.

I get my CV reviewed regularly, as I'm an IT contractor, I'm often updating it and applying for work. I know my CV inside out, so I see what I believe is there, others can see what's actually there.

Simon11 has offered to do so, and I am happy to give it a once over too. Perhaps Robert7111a would check it over as well. We can give you our opinions, which you can then implement as you wish or not.

 

As someone that is applying and getting nowhere so far :

The Pay & Work conditions are good when compared to many other occupations, and compared to say manufacturing it appears a much more stable working environment.
I worked in Engineering for years and working conditions & pay were rubbish, as for job stability it just didn't seem to exist, with a lot of large engineering firms now gone the labour market was such that they could offer less and still get skilled people, even just firing folk off after 6 months trial to get another in and thus never having someone permanent.
Another thing was that guys who had been at places and able to draw their pension would offer to do the work for less as a top up.
You'd think that with the lack of apprenticeships in the last 20 years things may have looked up for those 'time served' but a lot of wages are the same as 15-20 years ago, sometimes having to do shifts for what was day rate back then, and having to run more machines so working harder. It's a strange environment compared to everything else and often people who havent experienced it struggle to comprehend how you can be treated so worthlessly in a job (treated like at school a lot of the time).

 

Agree with you on this one, I'm an ex engineer, one of the lucky ones to get an apprenticeship with a ship repair company, unfortunately it went bust as did the second engineering company Iv worked for in the past. I completed four years at college to get my qualifications, and a further 10 years fully qualified to finally find out there's no more engineering in my area!! Money was crap, worked my butt off, no sick pay!! Had enough and had to make a change. I kept applying for over a year with my FOC and finally got a job as an mso ( shunter ). Can honestly say it's the best move I ever made, just wishing I can one day make driver!

 

I'm an IT contractor and my day rate is not dissimilar to what it was 15 years ago too. Fortunately, 15 years ago we were on silly rates, until the dotcom crash.

 

I don't mean any disrespect, but as someone who has worked in recruitment, I've lost count of the number of CV's and applications I've seen where people say that they are hard working, honest and reliable. It's become so common that I'm afraid that to many managers and HR people it's become meaningless.

You really need to make your application stand out from the crowd these days. I don't know how you can do that, but in my experience what recruiters are looking for is examples of what you've done in the past, how you've done it and how your experience is relevant to the role you're applying for. It's not enough these days to say I've done the job or this type of work before, you need to go into detail about things like the equipment you've used, the shifts you've worked and how you handled unusual situations. That will reveal more about you and hopefully give you a bit of an edge over other applicants.

I'm sorry if you're already aware of this. It's not my intention to teach granny how to suck eggs, I'm just trying to offer up some suggestions!

 

Keep plugging away at it OP, it's like the lotto in the sense that you've got to be in it to win it, these boards are magnets for heroes and bullsh***ers as well so don't let them put you off.

I've family in the railways who joined in the BR days, I know times change etc, but it's ironic that years ago no one wanted or thought about being a Train Driver ( or any railway job ), it had an image deficit in the same way people joked about the sandwiches in the buffet cars.

 

Exactly my situation mate (started apprenticeship in 85) I was at Royal Ordnance when it got privatised and shut down by British Aerospace, I've hiked around the world to find work going as far as New Zealand. Been working self employed as a locksmith over last 12 years but if the phone doesnt ring then you dont earn, the wages are still rubbish in engineering and its all continental shifts nowadays... which holds little to no appeal.

9/11 was something that affected my work as I was making wings for airbus & all the airlines put orders on hold in the panic that followed meaning lots laid off.


It was a trade i never wanted either, wanted to be a draughtsman and it was all lined up for at the end of my apprenticeship until they announced the factory was closing and my contract was only for 4 years, so I got stuck with a trade I'd never wanted at all. It got me around the world and paid well abroad but here its underpaid with little to no job security or satisfaction.

 

I have all that kinda BS on my CV. I also have "cam work effectively as a team player and on own initiative blah blah blah " ....took me a hell of a long time to write it when I first did it,

Do you suggest omitting that stuff, and just tailoring it to that particular role. I use STAR anyway for most application forms.

 

I never much liked CV's written in the third person, and the majority of my colleagues felt the same way. As far as we were concerned the applicant is supposed be giving us information about their life, so it should be in the first person. That being said, a good recruiter should base any decision on the information contained in an application and/or CV, not the style it's written in.

I think that writing something that reflects what you have actually done in a previous role is far more effective than generic statements like the ones you refer to. It will depend on the role being applied for, as well as previous roles, but I'd generally advise against using any phrases that don't tell the person reading the application anything specific. Speaking as someone who has read thousands of CV's and applications, I can say with some authority that decision makers want to see something that they can use in making that decision. Phrases like 'honest, reliable and hard working' or 'good team player' lose their impact very quickly and soon become meaningless.