Belmond Grand Hibernian Cancelled

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Steddenm

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According to the Irish Times, the Belmond Grand Hibernian has become the latest victim of Covid.


Ireland’s first luxury sleeper train, the Belmond Grand Hibernian – a sister train to the Orient Express – is to pull out of Ireland.

Belmond, the company that runs luxury hotels, trains and canal boats across the globe, says it is “too early” to reveal the train’s new base, but it expects it to remain in Europe, “where demand for immersive, slow-travel experiences of this kind is increasing”
Introduced in 2016, the Grand Hibernian offered a two-night tour from Dublin to the north Co Antrim coast for from about €2,650 per person.
It also offered a four-night tour around the Republic, taking in Killarney, Cork, Galway, and Waterford, at a cost of €5,420. A shorter, two-day version cost €3,160; six days cost €7,722.
Passengers tended to be wealthy American visitors who typically stay in Ireland longer and spend more per visit than other nationalities.
The all-inclusive prices covered visits to tourist attractions such as Titanic Experience in Belfast, falconry at Ashford Castle, the Giant’s Causeway and the Jameson distillery. Optional golf excursions were also provided.
More on the website above.
 
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DB

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If they are going to reuse the stock elsewhere they will have to re-gauge or replace the bogies!
 

fgwrich

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If they are going to reuse the stock elsewhere they will have to re-gauge or replace the bogies!
Lucky there's a load of standard gauge Mk3s being scrapped at the moment then...

(Which of course is a shame, but hey ho, at least some parts may be re-used).

The Grand Hibernian always struck me as a little odd. I quite liked the idea, but given how much smaller the Irish network is compared to ours, it was hardly going to be able to achieve some of the longer distance land cruise type operations that can be operated elsewhere around the UK and Europe. The choice of simplified livery was a bit of a surprise for a Belmond operation too.
 

DB

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Lucky there's a load of standard gauge Mk3s being scrapped at the moment then...

Are any bogies being saved though? Not heard of this happening.

Plus Mk3s wouldn't be gauge cleared for elsewhere in Europe, making it potentially an expensive business to reuse them elsewhere.
 

fgwrich

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Are any bogies being saved though? Not heard of this happening.

Plus Mk3s wouldn't be gauge cleared for elsewhere in Europe, making it potentially an expensive business to reuse them elsewhere.

As no-body can get into Newport, who knows. Given a how wealthy Belmond are, it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility that they've asked Newport or Kingsbury to do so. Some bogies were saved from some of the Mk3s scrapped so far last year (though I cant remember which yard had saved some).
 

edwin_m

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Are any bogies being saved though? Not heard of this happening.

Plus Mk3s wouldn't be gauge cleared for elsewhere in Europe, making it potentially an expensive business to reuse them elsewhere.
Anyone wanting bogies in useable condition would be prepared to pay way above scrap value, so any scrapyard would jump at the opportunity.

Gauge clearance wouldn't be a major issue, as the vehicles are smaller than in mainland Europe. Mk3 sleepers ran in Denmark for a while. But they'd have to consider how to board and alight on lower platforms.
 

Ianno87

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The Belmond was notable for being Ireland's only Open Access operation.
 

DB

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Anyone wanting bogies in useable condition would be prepared to pay way above scrap value, so any scrapyard would jump at the opportunity.

Gauge clearance wouldn't be a major issue, as the vehicles are smaller than in mainland Europe. Mk3 sleepers ran in Denmark for a while. But they'd have to consider how to board and alight on lower platforms.

Most of them go to Sims at Newport - who aren't in the business of component recovery. Anything going in there is ripped apart (and presumably fed into their enormous shredder) fairly soon after arrival.

Gauge clearance may not in theory be an issue, but it'll still be necessary to jump through all the hoops. First one would be getting approval for Mk3s to run at all, given that they have never run anywhere off the British Isles until now.
 

edwin_m

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Gauge clearance may not in theory be an issue, but it'll still be necessary to jump through all the hoops. First one would be getting approval for Mk3s to run at all, given that they have never run anywhere off the British Isles until now.
Except in Denmark as I mentioned...

Yes there is a process to overcome, and it's become more difficult on the Continent in recent years, but won't involve chopping chunks off the corners.
 

fgwrich

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Except in Denmark as I mentioned...

Yes there is a process to overcome, and it's become more difficult on the Continent in recent years, but won't involve chopping chunks off the corners.

Not only that, but these Mk3s already have power doors and toilet tanks too. Yes, Sims might be in the business of scrapping them, but I’m sure they won’t just drop an entire coach into the crusher. Even if the coach ends up on its side, the bogies will still be free-able. The Mk4s that were cut by Sims certainly had their bogies freed up during the cutting processes.
 

DB

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Not only that, but these Mk3s already have power doors and toilet tanks too. Yes, Sims might be in the business of scrapping them, but I’m sure they won’t just drop an entire coach into the crusher. Even if the coach ends up on its side, the bogies will still be free-able. The Mk4s that were cut by Sims certainly had their bogies freed up during the cutting processes.

But they are not set up for recovering components - the fact that the bogies get detached is just part of the scrapping process and there's no guarantee that they won't get damaged during this. So far as I am aware, there have been no examples of component recovery from anything which has gone to Sims, so no reason to assume that they will start now - they simply aren't in this business, and the adiditional value of bogies over the scrap value of the metal will be nothing to a company which works on their sort of scale.
 

Bletchleyite

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I thought that was a bit weird to be honest. The Irish Gauge is completely different to Europe and the UK.

Swapping bogies isn't that hard. It's even done in service in some countries!

The loading gauge (vehicle shape) is the same as the UK.

Plus Mk3s wouldn't be gauge cleared for elsewhere in Europe, making it potentially an expensive business to reuse them elsewhere.

Because they're so much smaller than 26.4m RIC coaches, there's basically nowhere in mainland Europe where Mk3s wouldn't be sure to fit (this is why dragging new UK kit through the Tunnel for UK delivery is no great issue). The main problem would be the lack of steps in the doorways, and also the electricals not being RIC-compatible.
 

DB

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Swapping bogies isn't that hard. It's even done in service in some countries!

The loading gauge (vehicle shape) is the same as the UK.

Not sure whether it's correct, but there were stories at the time when they were being scrapped that the idea of running the IE Mk3s in this country had been looked at by some TOCs, and rejected because they have differences to UK Mk3s (the power doors most obviously) and would therefore need separate clearance.
 

FQTV

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Belmond announced that the stock was being withdrawn and refurbished quite some time ago (ie last year), and that it would not run in 2021 in any case.

At the time, they said something along the lines that the refurbishment would 'reflect the destinations' that the train would travel to in future.

I suppose that means that refurbishment could already have started, and/or that the stock has already been exported.
 

craigybagel

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One of only two. RPSI (Railway Preservation Society of Ireland) is a licenced operator. Actually, I'm not sure that Belmond is - who provides traction/crews?
To the best of my knowledge Irish Rail do for both RPSI and Belmond.

Not sure whether it's correct, but there were stories at the time when they were being scrapped that the idea of running the IE Mk3s in this country had been looked at by some TOCs, and rejected because they have differences to UK Mk3s (the power doors most obviously) and would therefore need separate clearance.
The power doors shouldn't be too much of a problem (IIRC, British Rail later used the design for the 442s) but what was more of an issue was the different voltage for the electrics.

They would probably have needed a complete re-wiring, as well as a refurbishment (the Irish Rail Intercity moqette, whilst charming in its own way, was definitely "of its time"! Plus they wouldn't meet PRM rules), CET tanks fitting, and at the time they were available, how many TOCs were really that desperate for more MKIIIs?
 

ANDREW_D_WEBB

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I am sure if Belmond approached the owners of scrap Mark 3 vehicles then they would be happy to recover the bogies before selling the remainder for scrap. There are plenty of haulage companies which will move a bogieless coach on its final journey to the scrapyard.

Would the bogies need replacing, or would it hust be the wheelsets within?

Having watch the Megastructures film on the Newport shredder it is apparent that not everything gets ripped apart and fed into the shredder. Items like TVs and fridges are initially dismantled by hand. If the price was right, SIMS would probably free the bogies and place to one side before scrapping the body.
 
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