Best and Worst Major Interchange Stations

[24Grange]

I wonder how many people, back in the day, got off the train at Exeter Central to change, thinking because of its name it was the main station in the town?

 

[camflyer]

A few years ago I had to change at Stratford to get from the GE platforms to the HS1 part. This involves using the DLR, and trying to find the correct one out of the six DLR platforms was a nightmare, paricularly as I had to lug a suitcase up and down escalators.

Connecting from Stratford to Stratford International can be very confusing as the signposting isn't the best and it is easy to get sucked into Westfield.

 

[Class800]

indeed I thought the way to connect was to go through Westfield?

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it’s actually an excellent interchange, why do so many regular rail travellers - myself included - find it a confusing mess? Placing the blame on the passengers really isn’t a good enough explanation.

It's a compromise as it was built partly in an existing building (a multi storey car park, I believe) so they didn't have a clean slate.

If you stop obsessing about passing gatelines (which are open half the time anyway, are set to open for a very wide range of tickets* and the staff will let you through if not) then it's not a problem at all. If you end up at the A end just pass both gatelines if you need to. If I need the loo I often choose the A end as the loos are quieter at that end.

* I did wonder if it was "literally anything" so I bought a silly one online and collected it, I think it was Forsinard-Altnabreac or something like that, and tried that, and it didn't, so someone has clearly thought about it.

 

[Grumpy Git]

indeed I thought the way to connect was to go through Westfield?

Sounds like the nightmare that is Manchester airport, i.e. you MUST go through the shops to reach the gates.

 

[py_megapixel]

Sounds like the nightmare that is Manchester airport

And in fact almost every other British airport

 

[duncanp]

Having lived in Birmingham for over two years now, I have got used to the layout of New Street station, and I think that it works, provided you know where to go.

The various lounges disperse passengers in different directions, rather than have them all concentrated in one place.

The toilets are all on the "paid" side of the barriers, which can cause a problem, but it does at least keep some the undesirable elements out.

I do agree that it is very confusing for newcomers, but some of the issues regarding the signage are going to be addressed ahead of the Commonwealth Games next year.

Improvements planned for 'baffling' New Street station

Politicians have warned that it's 'impossible to find a way out' of Birmingham's New Street station

www.birminghammail.co.uk

Improvements planned for 'baffling' New Street station to stop Commonwealth Games visitors getting lost​

Politicians have warned that it's 'impossible to find a way out' of Birmingham's New Street station

Birmingham's New Street station has been described as "baffling" with "appalling" signage which leaves visitors struggling to find the way out.

The criticisms were levelled as Parliament debated the 2022 Commonwealth Games, to be held in Birmingham, and members of the House of Lords warned that Birmingham's main rail station is in danger of letting the city down.



One, former Black Country MP Lord Snape, said: "It is not a railway station with some commercial properties; I am afraid it is a shopping centre with a station attached, perhaps as an afterthought."

Another peer, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, said: "It is impossible to find your way round. I worry that when visitors come, they too will find it impossible to find a way out."

And the Government revealed the organisers of the Commonwealth Games are looking at how they can improve the signage in the station, to make it easier for people to navigate, before the Games take place.

There was widespread praise for the new and improved New Street station when a £600-million, five-year refurbishment was completed in 2015. It was certainly an improvement on the old New Street, which had been described as a concrete box.

And the station is now part of a high-class shopping centre which includes a Birmingham branch of John Lewis. Attracting the prestigious department store was seen as a real coup for the city.

But members of the House of Lords set out a series of complaints about the station, as they discussed Government legislation that will allow the games to go ahead.

• The train station is called Birmingham New Street but the bus and Metro stops are called "Grand Central" - the name of the shopping centre above it - which is confusing for visitors
• There's nowhere to get a taxi without standing outside, even if it is raining
• The platforms are divided into "A" and "B" areas but it's not clear to passengers what this means
• Passengers are invited to sit in chairs describe as "red lounge", "blue lounge" or "green lounge" but it's unclear to passengers what these names mean

Lord Snape, the former Labour MP for West Bromwich East, said: "Birmingham New Street station is a pretty baffling place to someone with railway experience. The signage there is appalling. For those not familiar with it, the station’s platforms are divided into “A” and “B” areas. For someone not particularly experienced with it, particularly someone from abroad, getting from one platform to another is a fairly difficult task.

"It is the busiest railway station outside London, yet the bus and Metro stops outside are labelled not 'Birmingham New Street' but 'Grand Central', which is the shopping centre."

And he added: "Most people, particularly those going to the Games, will want to know how to get to the various districts in which the different sports are being held. 'Red lounge' and 'blue lounge' will not be particularly helpful.

They will not particularly want to get on a Metro tram or bus labelled “Grand Central” if they are coming back to New Street station. These areas are all up for discussion. I hope something can be done to ease the passage of people arriving and departing by train before the Games themselves."

Liberal Democrat Peet Baroness Brinton said that she struggled to get around New Street station as a disabled person. She said: "As a disabled person I found the signage totally and utterly appalling. The access to taxis for disabled people is dreadful.

"It is bad enough for wheelchairs, but if you are ambulant disabled and using sticks, it is even worse: you have to go a very long way to get access."

But she added: "The attitude of the staff on the station to helping assist disabled passengers is excellent."

And Lord Hunt of Kings Heath also criticised the station, saying: "A magnificent retail outlet was built on top of New Street station, and it is very successful; it has John Lewis, lots of restaurants, and it is used by many people. However, to make it work financially, the station itself has simply been squeezed into four little bits of the huge atrium."

He added: "It is just bizarre that both taxi ranks are out in the open, so that if you are waiting for a taxi and it is raining, there is no protection at all."

Sports Minister Baroness Barran said: "I must say, it is vastly better than it used to be, but as part of the detailed operational planning, the Games partners are looking at the signage and wayfinding for all users, including spectators."

My votes for best and worst interchanges in the UK are both in Scotland.

Edinburgh Waverley is the worst, especially since the addition of new platforms, and subsequent renumbering of the old platforms. To get from a platforms at the Princes Street side of the station (eg on a train arriving from the Borders) to one at the Market Street side of the station you have to go up an escalator to the bottom of Waverley Steps, cross the line and go back down another escalator into the main concourse. Then you have to go up another escalator to cross the line to reach the passageway leading from the Market Street entrance and then back down to your platform. Not easy to do if you have luggage, a tight connection, or you just don't know where you are going. No doubt those familiar with the station will know where to go, but Edinburgh gets a lot of visitors, and I am sure I am not the only one who finds it a bit of a struggle. There is also a special place in hell for whoever decided to locate the taxi rank outside the station, instead of at the bottom of the slope leading from Waverley Bridge.

Glasgow Central is one of the best stations. For a train arriving at the high level platforms, you go through the barriers on to the spacious main concourse, which has all the facilities you would expect. The platforms are numbered in a logical sequence starting at platform 1, and there is a large departures board with all the trains clearly and legibly displayed. Those trains departing from the low level platforms are displayed separately, and there is signage directing you to the low level platforms if that is where you need to go. There are usually plenty of staff around to help if you need assistance, and the taxi rank is right outside the front entrance in Gordon Street.

 

[InOban]

Having lived in Birmingham for over two years now, I have got used to the layout of New Street station, and I think that it works, provided you know where to go.

The various lounges disperse passengers in different directions, rather than have them all concentrated in one place.

The toilets are all on the "paid" side of the barriers, which can cause a problem, but it does at least keep some the undesirable elements out.

I do agree that it is very confusing for newcomers, but some of the issues regarding the signage are going to be addressed ahead of the Commonwealth Games next year.

Improvements planned for 'baffling' New Street station

Politicians have warned that it's 'impossible to find a way out' of Birmingham's New Street station

www.birminghammail.co.uk

My votes for best and worst interchanges in the UK are both in Scotland.

Edinburgh Waverley is the worst, especially since the addition of new platforms, and subsequent renumbering of the old platforms. To get from a platforms at the Princes Street side of the station (eg on a train arriving from the Borders) to one at the Market Street side of the station you have to go up an escalator to the bottom of Waverley Steps, cross the line and go back down another escalator into the main concourse. Then you have to go up another escalator to cross the line to reach the passageway leading from the Market Street entrance and then back down to your platform. Not easy to do if you have luggage, a tight connection, or you just don't know where you are going. No doubt those familiar with the station will know where to go, but Edinburgh gets a lot of visitors, and I am sure I am not the only one who finds it a bit of a struggle. There is also a special place in hell for whoever decided to locate the taxi rank outside the station, instead of at the bottom of the slope leading from Waverley Bridge.

Glasgow Central is one of the best stations. For a train arriving at the high level platforms, you go through the barriers on to the spacious main concourse, which has all the facilities you would expect. The platforms are numbered in a logical sequence starting at platform 1, and there is a large departures board with all the trains clearly and legibly displayed. Those trains departing from the low level platforms are displayed separately, and there is signage directing you to the low level platforms if that is where you need to go. There are usually plenty of staff around to help if you need assistance, and the taxi rank is right outside the front entrance in Gordon Street.

Having used the escalator from 1/20 there is no need to descend to the concourse since there's a mezzanine -level walkway across the front of the main building. Great place to watch people below.

 

[greyman42]

There is also a special place in hell for whoever decided to locate the taxi rank outside the station, instead of at the bottom of the slope leading from Waverley Bridge.

If you put the taxi rank there, how would the taxi's turn around at the bottom of the ramp?

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you put the taxi rank there, how would the taxi's turn around at the bottom of the ramp?

There is a loop there, as it formerly was the taxi rank. It was moved outside the station I believe for two reasons - security (due to a tendency a few years ago for people to attack places by driving vehicles into people) and pollution (removing exhaust fumes from the trainshed, yes, I know there's an irony there).

 

[greyman42]

There is a loop there, as it formerly was the taxi rank. It was moved outside the station I believe for two reasons - security (due to a tendency a few years ago for people to attack places by driving vehicles into people) and pollution (removing exhaust fumes from the trainshed, yes, I know there's an irony there).

I did not realise that they had moved the loop outside the station and i must of walked by it enough times! So i can now see the posters point. I wonder if taxi's turning right at the top of the ramp was an issue?

 

[duncanp]

Having used the escalator from 1/20 there is no need to descend to the concourse since there's a mezzanine -level walkway across the front of the main building. Great place to watch people below.

That is the point though.

If you are unfamiliar with Edinburgh Waverley you wouldn't necessarily know that you can use the mezzanine level walkway to access the other platforms, in the same way that people don't know that it is easier to change trains at Birmingham New Street by using the corridor at the "B" end of the platforms.

Especially if you are like me, familiar with Edinburgh Waverley during the 1980s and early 1990s, and then return to it a few years ago after the rebuild.

If you want to talk about really confusing interchange stations, try Penn Station in New York, or the Midi/Zuid station in Brussels.

Birmingham New Street is a piece of cake in comparison to those two places.

 

[AlbertBeale]

That is the point though.

If you are unfamiliar with Edinburgh Waverley you wouldn't necessarily know that you can use the mezzanine level walkway to access the other platforms, in the same way that people don't know that it is easier to change trains at Birmingham New Street by using the corridor at the "B" end of the platforms.

Especially if you are like me, familiar with Edinburgh Waverley during the 1980s and early 1990s, and then return to it a few years ago after the rebuild.

If you want to talk about really confusing inteI found Brussels Zhange stations, try Penn Station in New York, or the Midi/Zuid station in Brussels.

Birmingham New Street is a piece of cake in comparison to those two places.

I found Brussels Midi fairly straightforward - a major passageway with access up to all the platforms in one line, and all in numerical order...

Though maybe that's only true if you kbow the platform number you want - I don't remember how clearly there's a display of all departures in one place?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I found Brussels Midi fairly straightforward - a major passageway with access up to all the platforms in one line, and all in numerical order...

Though maybe that's only true if you kbow the platform number you want - I don't remember how clearly there's a display of all departures in one place?

There are a couple of "all trains" departure boards in the tunnel. I too found Midi/Zuid fairly easy, the only problem really with it is crime - it's rough and in a very rough area* so guard your pockets and bags.

* I've walked to it once, the area felt really seedy and unsafe to me.

 

[InOban]

That is the point though.

If you are unfamiliar with Edinburgh Waverley you wouldn't necessarily know that you can use the mezzanine level walkway to access the other platforms, in the same way that people don't know that it is easier to change trains at Birmingham New Street by using the corridor at the "B" end of the platforms.

Especially if you are like me, familiar with Edinburgh Waverley during the 1980s and early 1990s, and then return to it a few years ago after the rebuild.

If you want to talk about really confusing interchange stations, try Penn Station in New York, or the Midi/Zuid station in Brussels.

Birmingham New Street is a piece of cake in comparison to those two places.

Hasn't that mezzanine walkway always been there? So if you used to station in the past, you would know it was there,

 

[Bletchleyite]

The only thing really confusing about Waverley is the numbering, which makes sense in a technical sense but is confusing if you don't understand it (it's done round in a circle, basically).

 

[181]

It seems to me that perhaps both New Street and Waverley are stations where if you're moderately familiar with the layout it's hard to understand why anyone finds them confusing, but which genuinely are confusing for new or occasional users.

Having lived in Birmingham for over two years now, I have got used to the layout of New Street station, and I think that it works, provided you know where to go........I do agree that it is very confusing for newcomers...

I get the basic concept of the layout and the reasons for it, but my recollection of the first one or two occasions that I used it in its present form (which I've still not done all that often as I tend to change at Coventry or Wolverhampton) is that the main concourse area under the new roof felt like a large open space that had been arbitrarily divided up, so even if you could see where you needed to get to it wasn't clear how to get there, as the direct route was obstructed as described here:

You expect an interchange station to be free-flowing and not encounter barriers that are NOT ticket barriers. I didn't regard myself as "blundering" around a railway station, merely encountering an obstacle that I didn't expect to be there.

If I remember rightly, I was further confused when I found a map with south at the top or something like that, although I can't remember the details.

The map linked to upthread would benefit from a clearer indication of which parts are inside the barrier line and which outside (maybe using a red line or different coloured shading), and where you can get from one to the other.

Edinburgh Waverley is the worst, especially since the addition of new platforms, and subsequent renumbering of the old platforms.

The only thing really confusing about Waverley is the numbering, which makes sense in a technical sense but is confusing if you don't understand it (it's done round in a circle, basically).

I'm more familiar with Waverley than New Street, and have long known how the numbers go; I'm mostly with Bletchleyite on this, although the increased likelihood of having to leave the main island makes it a bit more complicated than it used to be. The old system of numbering all the platforms on the main island and then the outside ones did have its merits (you didn't have to remember which ones in the middle of the sequence were elsewhere), but would probably be too confusing now that there are extra platforms on both sides rather than just one.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I wonder how many people, back in the day, got off the train at Exeter Central to change, thinking because of its name it was the main station in the town?

To be fair if you want the city centre it is the station you want, so the name is accurate. "Central" as a station suffix was never meant to mean "Main station"... it doesn't even always mean in the centre of the town or city, so at least Exeter has that!

 

[AlbertBeale]

I found Brussels Midi fairly straightforward - a major passageway with access up to all the platforms in one line, and all in numerical order...

Though maybe that's only true if you kbow the platform number you want - I don't remember how clearly there's a display of all departures in one place?

There are a couple of "all trains" departure boards in the tunnel. I too found Midi/Zuid fairly easy, the only problem really with it is crime - it's rough and in a very rough area* so guard your pockets and bags.

* I've walked to it once, the area felt really seedy and unsafe to me.

Are they the traditional continental big paper sheets showing all the trains in chronological order, as opposed to a big display where you can stand back and read all the pending departures in one go? I guess there's both.

Immediately outside Brussels Midi is a bit seedy - but in the direction I usually needed to go, it was quickly into pleasant and familiar territory; though I usually just took the tram from Midi. I did have my pocket picked on a tram (on a different route) a couple of stops from Midi once; but I've never felt hassled at all in the station itself. (Unlike in Paris Gare de Nord - much of which I find very hassly, though I did successfully fend off an attempted robbery there years ago.)

I was robbed on either Trieste or Venice station - forget which now - very many years back; but it was my own fault for nipping out of the carriage, while awaiting departure, to fill up a water bottle, leaving my jacket in the compartment. Totally stupid - never done it before or since if travelling alone.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be fair if you want the city centre it is the station you want, so the name is accurate. "Central" as a station suffix was never meant to mean "Main station"... it doesn't even always mean in the centre of the town or city, so at least Exeter has that!

It has two derivations, one being that it is the one closest to the centre, but the other than it was the station of the Great Central Railway, though obviously only in places they served.

It is interesting that the Dutch just use it as a synonym for Hauptbahnhof, as in the main but not necessarily most central station.

Are they the traditional continental big paper sheets showing all the trains in chronological order, as opposed to a big display where you can stand back and read all the pending departures in one go? I guess there's both.

I haven't looked for the traditional sheets there but I am sure they exist, but there is a conventional large departure board at at least two points in the tunnel if I recall.

Immediately outside Brussels Midi is a bit seedy - but in the direction I usually needed to go, it was quickly into pleasant and familiar territory; though I usually just took the tram from Midi. I did have my pocket picked on a tram (on a different route) a couple of stops from Midi once; but I've never felt hassled at all in the station itself. (Unlike in Paris Gare de Nord - much of which I find very hassly, though I did successfully fend off an attempted robbery there years ago.)

Gare du Nord to be fair is the lowest of the low - a dump of a station in a dump of an area in a dump of a city (which for some reason people seem to think is romantic). Of the main two Eurostar destinations I definitely find Brussels nicer, though neither is a beautiful picture at times.

I was robbed on either Trieste or Venice station - forget which now - very many years back; but it was my own fault for nipping out of the carriage, while awaiting departure, to fill up a water bottle, leaving my jacket in the compartment. Totally stupid - never done it before or since if travelling alone.

UK trains definitely feel safer in that regard, though if intending to leave stuff unattended to go to the bog or buffet I always wait until a long enough gap between stations.

 

[clc]

Hyndland is good. The island platform makes reversing direction dead easy.

 

[the sniper]

Immediately outside Brussels Midi is a bit seedy - but in the direction I usually needed to go, it was quickly into pleasant and familiar territory; though I usually just took the tram from Midi.

Brussels Midi is in a crap area, outside the station it's really rather sketchy, but it's not too bad inside the station. I imagine it'd be worse inside if it weren't for the international services, particularly Eurostar, leading it to be reasonably well guarded.

If we're talking 'seedy', Brussel-Noord wins that one. The road running along the east side of the station is lined with 'shops' with scantily clad women sat in the windows advertising themselves, clearly on view to anyone above arriving into the eastern most platform from the north or exiting that side. On the west side is a poor mans Canary Wharf. The inside of the station attracts all sorts, giving a good impression of how bad Midi could be.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Gare du Nord to be fair is the lowest of the low - a dump of a station in a dump of an area in a dump of a city (which for some reason people seem to think is romantic).

I think the romance of Paris - as of anywhere - is partly based on personal memories of what you've done there (and who with). If you go somewhere with certain expectations, you often engage in activities that fulfil them - whether they're very pleasant, or the opposite. (Or, as when I was - not unexpectedly - arrested by the French riot police, a mixture of both, bizarrely.)

 

[Clansman]

Always an awkward one at Edinburgh Waverley when you arrive on platform 18 for a connection on 19!

Worst European station I have came acorss is Barcelona Sants. A horrendous station which has double the hassle of Birmingham New Street with the concourse architecture of London Euston.

 

[rower40]

Is it any wonder (given the posts here) that certain members of my cycling forum refer to Birmingham New Street as "Mordor Central"?

Dalmuir: I well remember lugging a folded bike over the many staircases (from platform 1 to platform 5), and noting that extra steps had been added to give enough clearance over the OHLE. I'm glad to read that there are now lifts!

Another vote for Derby being a good'un. It's just a shame (but understandable, given the logistics of the blockade when it was remodelled and resignalled) that the subway does not extend to platforms 6/7 - or beyond into Pride Park. The only other gripe would be that if the Pride Park stairwell lift is out-of-order, it's a VERY long way round for, say, a wheelchair user. As that lift is outside the gateline, there are no staff at the foot of the stairwell to advise and assist.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Is it any wonder (given the posts here) that certain members of my cycling forum refer to Birmingham New Street as "Mordor Central"?

I quite like that!

The vast improvement from the previous version - going from a single main barrier line to no fewer than six, plus the direct exit into Stephenson Place (for the excellent tram interchange) - certainly means that New Street has 'more doors' than it did.

Tolkien spent his formative years in Birmingham and Mordor was surrounded by three mountain ranges - evoked by the three railway tunnels towards Proof House Junction, Monument Lane and Five Ways.

And, as noted earlier in the thread, the original 1850s concept was going to be called Grand Central.

It is well accepted that Tolkien was inspired by Birmingham places like Sarehole Mill and the Twin Towers in Edgbaston but we can now see that he was also inspired by the original New Street Station!

'rower40' may well have further unlocked one of the great literary mysteries of the modern age. (I hope that his cycling mates appreciate the large number of lifts compared to the previous set-up.)

 

[Grumpy Git]

Worst European station I have came acorss is Barcelona Sants.

Good shout, a completely bewilering mess of a station when you first happen upon it.

 

[Tracked]

As an irregular user, I found Birmingham New Street a bit of a mess on most of the occasions I've used it, both before and after the refurb a couple of years ago.

St Pancras - the different areas for different operators, and ending up in a shopping centre if you use the wrong entrance.

Sheffield Platform 7, if you arrive on it in rush hour; I used to regularly get the Norwich-Liverpool service that got in there around 17:37 pre-Covid and it was sometimes a bit of a job getting to the footbridge as P6 & 8 are a lot narrower than P2 & 5.

 

[The exile]

I quite like that!

The vast improvement from the previous version - going from a single main barrier line to no fewer than six, plus the direct exit into Stephenson Place (for the excellent tram interchange) - certainly means that New Street has 'more doors' than it did.

Have to say that as a relatively infrequent user of New Street (even less frequent now than 30 odd years ago) I used to find it shabby and depressing (getting worse the further down you went) but at least fairly easy to find your way around. On more recent visits the immediate optical impression has been much better (though less "human") but many times more confusing. Give me shabby and simple over "airport" and incomprehensible any day.

 

[Dryce]

It seems to me that perhaps both New Street and Waverley are stations where if you're moderately familiar with the layout it's hard to understand why anyone finds them confusing, but which genuinely are confusing for new or occasional users.

I used to be a frequent user of Waverley and then got caught out with a late platform change on the old platforms setup and having never actually used platform 21 had no idea where it was.

Glasgow Central has a reasonable layout - but the 'front / rear' trains used to cause problems and 11a was a distant mystery to some.

Perth station is a bit unusual and the map on the nationalrail.co.uk site showing platforms 1 and 2 parallel the other platforms is potentially confusing to somebody who had done their homework before travel ending up trying make a fast transfer.