Best and Worst Park and Ride schemes

[alex397]

Canterbury - some are well-used but present council chief wishes to close them all down and increase cycle-lanes, provide electric scooters etc instead.

Canterbury City Council has had quite a successful working relationship with Stagecoach with their Park & Ride services, so it’s a shame the council leader wants to get rid of them just because of his own personal opinion.
He also stated how he couldn’t understand the point of people parking outside of town, only to sit on a bus which gets stuck in the same traffic. Sadly no one has publicly told him how a bus full of people will take up much less road space than the cars it is replacing. It’s incredible how few people seem to understand this simple logic.

 

[Roger1973]

Has anyone got experience of Reading's pair? The website makes it sound rather complicated, where as simplicity is surely key if trying to attract attention and wanting people to swap from convenience?

The Winnersh Triangle one is complicated, in that the car park is also there for train passengers, I'm not sure there are ticket machines in the car park other than those near the bus shelter (I think one is for bus passengers, one for train passengers, which implies the deal for train passengers may be different) and it's also close to a big business park, so the council probably want to discourage people parking but not riding.

It used to be the case that the tickets issued on the bus included a bar code (or QR code) that let your car out of the barriers (I'm not sure how it worked for train passengers.)

The service does (or did) get some use from people who live in Reading but work on the business park, and if you live at that end of Winnersh, it's not unreasonable as an alternative to the 'all stops' bus route in to Reading, so it does get used by people who aren't parking - it's more expensive for an on-bus return fare, but not if you have a concessionary or network pass.

I think the one pound thing is presumably so that council gets some parking revenue from those passengers. Although not sure how or if the system would know if you entered your registration number on the machine, then didn't pay a pound on the bus.

The whole thing is theoretical at the moment, as the car park is being reconstructed (it did get close to full before covid, whether the increased capacity will be needed in the future is an unknown) and the service is running from Thames Valley Park instead.

Yes, a 'day return' is valid all day, but I think by 'all day ticket' they mean a network day ticket that's valid for other journeys in Reading. Mereoak used to have a regular if infrequent service to the Royal Berkshire Hospital (think there are one or two peak journeys on route 9 that still do this) so there's some potential demand for journeys other than to the town centre.

 

[HST43257]

I rate York's system highly.

Comfortable seats and good info on the new buses and refurbed older ones.

Good waiting areas at the sites and many reasons to use other than commuting, like shopping centres and the football on the no. 9

Not sure why more people don't use it

 

[markymark2000]

A little wrinkle is whether ENCTS passholders travel free or not. Some councils have decided that under the legislation, "the fare charged by the operator has a special amenity element" and the P&R service can be exempted from the free travel obligation. Guildford for example does this: ENCTS passholders are charged a concessionary £1.50 rate. But Oxford is free (apart from the parking fee).

Oxfords P&R though is a local bus service, not a P&R bus. It may be advertised as such but it's not really.

Has anyone got experience of Reading's pair? The website makes it sound rather complicated, where as simplicity is surely key if trying to attract attention and wanting people to swap from convenience?

It starts off by saying "At each site, there is a nominal parking charge. This is included in the price of some product and tickets. If your ticket does not include parking, you must buy a parking ticket from the bus driver". So straight away, it tells you that you may or may not have to pay a £1 parking fee.

This is the issue with many P&R schemes, they are meant to be there to get people out of their cars but then set silly fares which make it unattractive to the supposed target audience. Pay for parking and pay for the bus. Then they add so many potential saver style tickets that the bus tickets become more complicated than that of the core commercial bus network. It's daft.

What I don't get is why do we charge for P&R buses 'per passenger' yet if someone was to drive into the town centre and pay for parking, they would pay 'per car'. This is one of the biggest reasons cited by people about using the bus, it's cheaper to drive if there is more than one of you, yet P&R puts itself into that category. It makes no sense.


Take Reading as an example, It's £7 for a group (after 9.30 M-F & All day Sat&Sun) but if you're not planning to spend long in town, it's £8 to park at the Oracle for 4 hours. Centrally located, less faff. Off 2 people, that's 50p per person to save on the 'hassle' of using P&R.

Chester, £2 per person (normally). If alone, great, it's cheaper. If you're with others, £4 gets you 4 hours in the city, £5 gets you £6 hours. Why would you get the P&R bus when you can go into town instead?


P&R sites should be future ready and most of them aren't. Most have extremely basic cycle facilities (what about those who like to ride their bike but dislike it in slightly congested city streets, P&R should be suitable for that), many have no electric car charging points. City Centre stops may be poor, congestion with councils having no will in the world to put in bus priority. There are so many reasons why people won't use P&R, unfortunately, those in power are completely blind to how to increase P&R usage and very much like the attitudes when it comes to public transport in general, they ignore the issues or pass the blame onto someone else.

 

[Roilshead]

Why would you get the P&R bus when you can go into town instead?

Well, I do if I'm not familiar with the parking arrangements in/layout of the town/city centre - I'd rather use an easy-to-find-out-of-town [sic] P&R.

 

[markymark2000]

Well, I do if I'm not familiar with the parking arrangements in/layout of the town/city centre - I'd rather use an easy-to-find-out-of-town [sic] P&R.

Unfortunately, many people familiarise themselves with parking arrangements in a city before going.

 

[Dai Corner]

Unfortunately, many people familiarise themselves with parking arrangements in a city before going.

Using resources like https://www.parkopedia.com/

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

unfortunately, those in power are completely blind to how to increase P&R usage and very much like the attitudes when it comes to public transport in general, they ignore the issues or pass the blame onto someone else.

Whilst I agree with much of what you say, the people in power do know what to do. However, local authorities are also dependent on car parking revenues, don't wish to penalise car owners both in terms of limiting road capacity for cars nor parking the tin box outside people's homes. They believe that the carrot of a P&R is enough but a stick is politically toxic.

They are not blind. They just choose not to see...

 

[TR673]

The park and ride in Lincoln is hit and miss. Allegedly served every 15 minutes by specific services, but I've waited an hour there for a bus before. When it does run, it's quick and smooth and connects directly to the bus station in the city centre, and it's reasonably priced (£2.60 return, I think), but it's so unreliable to the point of madness. Stagecoach aren't interested in making it any better either. Complaints have fallen on deaf ears, but they'll happily take money from the local BID.

Never used it, but isn't Lincoln's 'P&R' just a supermarket car park with normal roadside bus stops outside. Stagecoach had some E400s with a couple of small "Waitrose Park and Ride" stickers on the front but used them on any route (not that I can think of a dedicated P&R route anyway). It took me a long time to realise Lincoln even had a Park & Ride.

 

[broadwater]

Oxfords P&R though is a local bus service, not a P&R bus. It may be advertised as such but it's not really.


This is the issue with many P&R schemes, they are meant to be there to get people out of their cars but then set silly fares which make it unattractive to the supposed target audience. Pay for parking and pay for the bus. Then they add so many potential saver style tickets that the bus tickets become more complicated than that of the core commercial bus network. It's daft.

What I don't get is why do we charge for P&R buses 'per passenger' yet if someone was to drive into the town centre and pay for parking, they would pay 'per car'. This is one of the biggest reasons cited by people about using the bus, it's cheaper to drive if there is more than one of you, yet P&R puts itself into that category. It makes no sense.


Take Reading as an example, It's £7 for a group (after 9.30 M-F & All day Sat&Sun) but if you're not planning to spend long in town, it's £8 to park at the Oracle for 4 hours. Centrally located, less faff. Off 2 people, that's 50p per person to save on the 'hassle' of using P&R.

Chester, £2 per person (normally). If alone, great, it's cheaper. If you're with others, £4 gets you 4 hours in the city, £5 gets you £6 hours. Why would you get the P&R bus when you can go into town instead?


P&R sites should be future ready and most of them aren't. Most have extremely basic cycle facilities (what about those who like to ride their bike but dislike it in slightly congested city streets, P&R should be suitable for that), many have no electric car charging points. City Centre stops may be poor, congestion with councils having no will in the world to put in bus priority. There are so many reasons why people won't use P&R, unfortunately, those in power are completely blind to how to increase P&R usage and very much like the attitudes when it comes to public transport in general, they ignore the issues or pass the blame onto someone else.

The Oxford P&R routes are registered Local Bus Services like many other P&R routes. They pick up at the P&R sites, run non-stop to a limited number of stops in the city centre. In what way are they "advertised as such (P&R bus) but it's not really." ?

That hasn't been the case for quite some time - parking is now free again and the machines were switched off in 2019 or thereabouts. The complexity of the machines among some elderly drivers (who also couldn't remember their registration number) certainly did a good job of putting people off using the service, alongside the extra £1 parking fee!

Thanks for the update. I'm glad common-sense has prevailed.

 

[markymark2000]

The Oxford P&R routes are registered Local Bus Services like many other P&R routes. They pick up at the P&R sites, run non-stop to a limited number of stops in the city centre. In what way are they "advertised as such (P&R bus) but it's not really."

The buses are plastered with 'park and ride' all over it. That's how it's advertised.
In reality it's a local service bus which actually calls at most stop en route and happens to serve a car park site.

Only the 400 is limited stop. The 300 stops at all stops and the 500, before today when it got withdrawn, was a normal local stopping service going to Woodstock. Unless there is a large Demand from Oxford Park and Ride to Woodstock of Woodstock is a Park and Ride in its own right?

 

[43055]

Never used it, but isn't Lincoln's 'P&R' just a supermarket car park with normal roadside bus stops outside. Stagecoach had some E400s with a couple of small "Waitrose Park and Ride" stickers on the front but used them on any route (not that I can think of a dedicated P&R route anyway). It took me a long time to realise Lincoln even had a Park & Ride.

Looking at google maps it does look like it's just part of the Waitrose car park with the stop across a main road. There is a 'dedicated' P&R route (10) which runs off peak half hourly interworking with route 12 which continues out of Lincoln to provide a 15 min frequency.

 

[duncombec]

Only the 400 is limited stop. The 300 stops at all stops

Are you sure? The All stops timetable on the Oxford Bus website only lists a few; far fewer than there are on the roads it serves.

and the 500, before today when it got withdrawn, was a normal local stopping service going to Woodstock. Unless there is a large Demand from Oxford Park and Ride to Woodstock of Woodstock is a Park and Ride in its own right?

Blenheim Palace?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Looking at google maps it does look like it's just part of the Waitrose car park with the stop across a main road. There is a 'dedicated' P&R route (10) which runs off peak half hourly interworking with route 12 which continues out of Lincoln to provide a 15 min frequency.

I can confirm its the bottom end of the Waitrose car park, that is the closest to the bus stop, that is the "park & ride". If we look at the routes 10/12 as the offical routes - it could be argued that the 5 (Glebe Park circular) could be added into the mix too as a park and ride service just to ramp up the service provision.

One place that could do with a couple of sites is Holmfirth, which when I and my partner at the time suggested it to the parish council back in late 2008 as a solution to the traffic problem encountered in the Holme Valley especially in the summer. The idea was for HVPC to have a dedicated "H6" that would serve the sites which would have been at either end of the Woodhead Road (Honley Bridge and the other between Holme and Holmbridge), the number was chosen to link it in with the Holme Valley Minibus network (back then you only had H1/H2 Scholes, H3 Upperthong, H4 Brockholes, H5 Deanhouse and H7 Holmbridge) - sadly the matter wasn't pursued which is a bit of a blow as it would have ment that had it been persued, HVPC could have been the only parish council with a P&R service.

Horsham's park and ride at Hop Oast is little used but it does have the 98 serving it every 15 minutes.

 

[PeterC]

Are you sure? The All stops timetable on the Oxford Bus website only lists a few; far fewer than there are on the roads it serves.


Blenheim Palace?

Looking at the map on bustimes.org the 300 appears to call at all stops. I only use the 400 and hadn't realised that the other routes weren't limited stop as well.

The 400 does get the occasional prospective passenger who doesn't understand what the list of numbers on the bus stop flag means.

 

[Simon75]

A few years back, Hinde Steet car park in Hanley,Stoke-on-Trent was used as a sort of park and facility with normal buses. However it wasn't really used as the city centre is about a 5/10 minute walk away. The car park is still in yes as a normal car park and and a overspill layover area fir Hanley bus station

 

[duncombec]

Looking at the map on bustimes.org the 300 appears to call at all stops. I only use the 400 and hadn't realised that the other routes weren't limited stop as well.

The 400 does get the occasional prospective passenger who doesn't understand what the list of numbers on the bus stop flag means.

I agree, the map on the Oxford Bus (OBC) website suggests the same.

Having now looked in more detail on both the OBC website and Bustimes, it seems the service is limited stop until the 1833 round trip departures from each P&R site, but from 1845 onwards are all stops. It is therefore incorrect to say that the 300 is all stops for the major part of the day when people are likely to use it as a P&R service.

 

[blackfive460]

Scarborough's two Park & Ride sites did quite well when first opened particularly as they were free for ENCTS for a couple of years. Ridership dropped off a bit when pass holders had to pay, albeit at a well discounted rates but what has killed it is that it now only operates April to October so the day in, day out regulars who bought annual passes no longer use it and general ridership through the day has reduced. It only gets at all busy on fine days in the school holidays and with a 15 minute interval service, even at the busiest time, there's plenty of capacity.

 

[Falcon1200]

The 400 does get the occasional prospective passenger who doesn't understand what the list of numbers on the bus stop flag means.

Of which I am one ! Despite having lived in Oxford from 1964 to 1984, and having visited family there innumerable times since, I had no idea that the 400 was limited stop, and could not see, or did not notice, any such indication at the stop at which I boarded, or on the bus. Fortunately the stop at which I wanted to alight was not too far from the Seacourt terminus.... But it does seem that having some P&R buses limited stop, but others all stops, is a recipe for confusion.

 

[Typhoon]

Canterbury - some are well-used but present council chief wishes to close them all down and increase cycle-lanes, provide electric scooters etc instead.

Canterbury City Council has had quite a successful working relationship with Stagecoach with their Park & Ride services, so it’s a shame the council leader wants to get rid of them just because of his own personal opinion.
He also stated how he couldn’t understand the point of people parking outside of town, only to sit on a bus which gets stuck in the same traffic. Sadly no one has publicly told him how a bus full of people will take up much less road space than the cars it is replacing. It’s incredible how few people seem to understand this simple logic.

Presumably, they also haven't told him that going in to town, the P&R uses a bus lane for much of the way, only leaving it to cut through part of Military Road where it would encounter almost no traffic.
I also want to hear him describe exactly how visitors are going to get their shopping back to their car on the e-scooters or cycles. (The e-scooters the Police and Crime Commissioner wants to ban.)

Unfortunately, the Council leader is only interested in vanity projects such as his plans for The Parade - kick the market out, cut down the trees, plant new saplings and install new seating so that shoppers can enjoy the 'ambience'. The voters of Blean Forest sensibly rejected him; unfortunately he has popped up in an even safer ward (nowhere near Canterbury) in a by-election.

 

[freddiem]

Edinburgh's various P&R sites in my opinion are all quite poor apart from Ingliston which has the tram line passing through and provides a reasonably quick service into the city. Hermiston had a capacity problem pre-pandemic, and the bus service takes quite some time to reach the city centre with congestion problems ever worsening. Straiton is woefully underserved with just the 47 bus passing through every 30 mins, Sheriffhall has just become an extension to the Royal Infirmary Car Park with few people using it for the city centre. Wallyford and Newcraighall are good for the train links, but far too far away by bus.

Think the problem that is faced across all the sites though is the lack of dedicated services, with ordinary routes often very busy which puts people off using them altogether as they would rather drive into the city than face a long bus ride standing, stopping every 100 yards along the way.

 

[route101]

Winchester is not too bad pricewise at £3. 3 Park and Ride sites.

 

[156478]

Silverburn park and ride in Glasgow was as far as I know the only bus-based park and ride service in Glasgow at the time and was opened up when Silverburn Shopping Centre opened.

There was a building that would have been a nice waiting area, but was never opened to the public. Facilities was a few bus shelters and no real time information. Totally unstaffed at all times.

First Glasgow's existing X8 was diverted into it and provided a very decent level of service for Park and ride customers, for everyone else however who lived further on the route it was a diversion which slowed your journey home down- on a route that uses the notoriously congested M8 and M77 motorways.

However the extra incentive for people from Ayrshire not to use it, was the fact you would quoue from Newton Mearns all the way to come off the M77 motorway to Silverburn to park your car, to then wait to get on an X8 which would join the same motorway's traffic jam and there was no saving in time.

It did have a hardcore of regular users, but not enough to justify the X8s diversion into the park and ride with the extra mileage, fuel, PVR and time incurred.

Marketing was non-existant as the bus service was operated by First Glasgow, Newton Mearns had a already had a regular but slow stopping bus service to Glasgow operated by First, and Ayrshire was a Stagecoach stronghold and it's Ayrshire Express network was at the time booming.

If the controversial hard-shoulder running for buses was followed through for the M77, there may have been a slight chance of the facility being a sucess.

Stagecoach's Ayrshire express network was very strong, Kilmarnock and Ayr to Glasgow has a decent train service, it was doomed to failure from the start.

The car park now acts as an overflow for Silverburn Shopping Centre.