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Best and worst refurbished train since privatisation

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Bletchleyite

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The seats in those are like rusty iron spikes!

They are the awful Richmonds of which I spoke badly upthread. Fine when new but the sprung bases soon collapse and tip you off forwards into the footwell.

It's quite astonishing that ScotRail managed (in my view) both the best and the worst 158 refurb.
 
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adamedwards

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Good: Wessex refurb of class 150. 2 and 2 seating and space for bikes, etc. Very suited to the west country.

Bad: Tombstone class in Great Western. Family travel in airline seats as too few facing pairs.
 

Devonian

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First's 'GWR' prestige refurbishments come top of my list.

The GWR first class Mk3 interior takes my top award, as it was a huge improvement over the bland First Great Western 'upgrade', and a genuine transformation that felt luxurious in an era when interiors were generally becoming more austere. The seat trim detail looked expensive and felt softer, the warmer lighting, winged headrests and smoked glass dividers made it feel more cosy. And when laid up for dinner with outrageously anachronistic old-GWR-crested crockery, I cannot think of an interior I would rather travel in.

An honourable mention must go to their smaller scale, but equally ambitious, refurb of the Night Riviera sleeping and lounge cars: again, a radical transformation of Mk3 stock with cunning details like the folding ladder (though I wish they hadn't turned the beds round and had kept a luggage shelf by the basin).

Brickbats to the same company, in the shape of FGW's standard class on the Mk3s: ruining the spacious feel and views out out of the windows with super-high backed seats and a cold colour scheme matched to cold lighting, and far, far too few tables. Scotrail have showed how they should have done it.

Dishonourable mention to the interior that never was: the eye-popping horror mish-mash of the prototype interiors put on show by First Great Western which looked like a fight had broken out between three colour schemes (which I suspect it had). Purple meets chartreuse meets brown meets turquoise meets blue meets grey? Just no. Mercifully never rolled out - though the stylish buffet redesign did make the cut.
 

Journeyman

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Agree with many comments here that First managed to produce the best and worst in the same train. First class in HSTs was lovely, but Standard was an absolute horror.
 

bramling

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I certainly liked the purple and lilac colour scheme. Perhaps I've just got the same taste as a granny !

The bit about nan’s front room did make me laugh, though mine would have been more akin to a 313 in the 1980s - lots of yellow, lime green and orange!

Personally I’m a bit mixed on the Serco Northern interiors. On the one hand I find blue and purple is a bit dreary for train interiors (unless you happen to get just the right shade - which Network South East did!), however the whole Northern Rail brand did actually work rather well as a package.

Of course, nothing they did could really be considered anything like as much what most people would regard as a refurbishment!
 

yorksrob

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The bit about nan’s front room did make me laugh, though mine would have been more akin to a 313 in the 1980s - lots of yellow, lime green and orange!

Personally I’m a bit mixed on the Serco Northern interiors. On the one hand I find blue and purple is a bit dreary for train interiors (unless you happen to get just the right shade - which Network South East did!), however the whole Northern Rail brand did actually work rather well as a package.

Of course, nothing they did could really be considered anything like as much what most people would regard as a refurbishment!

Yes, you can see how the trendy 1980's colour schemes were a natural progression from the geometric wallpaper and kipper ties from the 70's.

Thank goodness most trains stuck with Trojan and Bournemouth Blue !
 

bramling

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Yes, you can see how the trendy 1980's colour schemes were a natural progression from the geometric wallpaper and kipper ties from the 70's.

Thank goodness most trains stuck with Trojan and Bournemouth Blue !

Growing up in the 1980s, it somehow seemed to be the case that train doors seemingly “had” to be yellow or orange.

It’s quite odd how the GN 313s kept their yellow doors til the end, long after the concept went out of fashion. One can only think that, if there was a reason for it, yellow is sometimes seen as a colour to denote “way out” and this was seen as appropriate for units running in a tunnel. The more cynical theory is other parts of the interior were yellow and it saved those areas having to be changed!
 

fgwrich

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I am curious, what was awful about sets LA15 / LA16?

They were the first two to be refurbished for the franchise launch. Unfortunately, the first refurbishments were not particularly successful - flat cloth being used instead of moquette etc, the sets rather looked liked they’d been thrown together in a hurry towards the end and were utterly rancid (more so compared to the much smarter and cleaner FGW refurb of a few years previous!). Thankfully, any further refurbishments went over to using closed loop moquette - also dubbed Astroturf after its use on Southern, but it’s better than the utterly awful flat cloth of the first set.

Eg.
 

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yorksrob

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Growing up in the 1980s, it somehow seemed to be the case that train doors seemingly “had” to be yellow or orange.

It’s quite odd how the GN 313s kept their yellow doors til the end, long after the concept went out of fashion. One can only think that, if there was a reason for it, yellow is sometimes seen as a colour to denote “way out” and this was seen as appropriate for units running in a tunnel. The more cynical theory is other parts of the interior were yellow and it saved those areas having to be changed!

I'd always assumed that the yellow doors on Mk3's were some sort of a safety feature.

In my neck of the woods we had the CEP's and their orange walls, which did lead to a bright interior at least.
 
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Virgin did later do the "Pretendolino" in the silver livery and dark blue/red seats, same as an actual Pendolino. As someone said it was commissioned by InterCity West Coast before it was sold off, so changing it would probably have cost too much if fabric had already been ordered.
Ah I understand. Is it the same case for Great Western then that BR started the green interior refurbishment and the Merlin livery ( I recall the intercity name was retained on that). That was a much nicer interior than the West Coast variant.
Did Virgin Cross Country also have the West Coast interior?
 

antharro

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The GWR first class Mk3 interior takes my top award, as it was a huge improvement over the bland First Great Western 'upgrade'

Oy. Really? I admit they looked good (really good) but those seats were harder than a park bench and had a weird angle which meant I was never quite comfortable and my back complained. The previous FGW seats didn't look as premium but they were nice and comfy! (Both a massive improvement over the GWR IEP seats, mind).
 

AGH

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Worst. 142s. Two specific crimes. One interior had single seats replace the bench seats. Yellow grab hoops on top, narrow and very hard. Second variant 3 seat bench converted to 2 very soft reclined seat with headrest. Instant loss of capacity.

Wasn't a fan of the refurb of merseyrail electrics stock with the high back seats and some loss of capacity.

The northern 319s still look ancient regardless. I'm not hopeful that the ex WMT 323s we will get will be any better.old is old

Best. In the northwest we don't get much beyond bad hand me downs at one extreme or great new trains at the other (Novas are excellent). I would have to agree that the EMT 158 at the time made a big difference but now they mix in 153s or 156s so they are slipping.
 

tetudo boy

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Best: TPE 185s and LNWR 350's. They both look relatively good, and the PIS is a plus side. Class 323's. They look modern when refurbished and they actually cared about the exterior this time. Class 332's also had an incredibly nice interior when they were refurbished in 2012.

Worst: Northern class 319. Northern didn't do anything particularly new with them, plus they still have the same awkward seating.
 

yorksrob

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Worst. 142s. Two specific crimes. One interior had single seats replace the bench seats. Yellow grab hoops on top, narrow and very hard. Second variant 3 seat bench converted to 2 very soft reclined seat with headrest. Instant loss of capacity.

Wasn't a fan of the refurb of merseyrail electrics stock with the high back seats and some loss of capacity.

The northern 319s still look ancient regardless. I'm not hopeful that the ex WMT 323s we will get will be any better.old is old

Best. In the northwest we don't get much beyond bad hand me downs at one extreme or great new trains at the other (Novas are excellent). I would have to agree that the EMT 158 at the time made a big difference but now they mix in 153s or 156s so they are slipping.

The first 142 mentioned was the infamous Merseyrail pacer, cause of much wailing and gnashing of teeth on this forum (and that's just from me) .

Didn't mind the second varient so much, but came to prefer the 144's.

Ah I understand. Is it the same case for Great Western then that BR started the green interior refurbishment and the Merlin livery ( I recall the intercity name was retained on that). That was a much nicer interior than the West Coast variant.
Did Virgin Cross Country also have the West Coast interior?

The VXC mk2's had a (IMO) very attractive scheme of pastel yellow walls and blue/green moquette. Just a shame I was usually stuck in a vestibule and therefore unable to enjoy it !
 

Blindtraveler

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Worst in my opinion has to be the transport Scotland/abellio ScotRail job on the 156. Having yelled very loudly for years for these to be receipted, I was horrified to find that they were going to put ironing boards in and having now done several runs from Glasgow to Dumfries and and last year in between lock downs a fairly high amount of West Highland mileage I can confirm that you would be better off taking the bus.
I am no fan of class 170 of le description but the northern interior on these is probably the best of the ones currently rolling around.

Unlike many I quite light to high-density standard class interior of Great Western HST carriages, I cannot deny that the ScotRail refit is of a good quality but I think we'll cause capacity issues when the railway is back to normal full strength passenger operation and can only hope that whatever comes along next for the express fleet combines a mixture of high density and low density tourist spec vehicles which in my opinion is what should have been done here
 

Bletchleyite

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Unlike many I quite light to high-density standard class interior of Great Western HST carriages, I cannot deny that the ScotRail refit is of a good quality but I think we'll cause capacity issues when the railway is back to normal full strength passenger operation and can only hope that whatever comes along next for the express fleet combines a mixture of high density and low density tourist spec vehicles which in my opinion is what should have been done here

I think your username may provide a hint as to why you dislike them less than some - by far their worst feature is the awful blueish lighting and how it interacts with the cold, blue paint on the sidewalls. I've never had an issue with the layout of the seating on them, and the seats themselves have long been my favourite.

I think the same thing with a neutral grey-beige paint on the sidewalls and warm white lighting would have been spot-on - this, rather than me being overly bothered about tables, is the key thing ScotRail have improved.
 

43096

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I think your username may provide a hint as to why you dislike them less than some - by far their worst feature is the awful blueish lighting and how it interacts with the cold, blue paint on the sidewalls. I've never had an issue with the layout of the seating on them, and the seats themselves have long been my favourite.

I think the same thing with a neutral grey-beige paint on the sidewalls and warm white lighting would have been spot-on - this, rather than me being overly bothered about tables, is the key thing ScotRail have improved.
Lighting, seat layout, sidewall colours and over-the-top window tinting were all wrong on these and make them a very poor refurbishment.
 

delt1c

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Someone likes trains a little too much!
Did you ever travel on these? As a unit I have always said the 315's were great , however the pink refurb was ghastly. Commuting daily in that interior colour scheme was not a pleasure.
 

61653 HTAFC

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The first 142 mentioned was the infamous Merseyrail pacer, cause of much wailing and gnashing of teeth on this forum (and that's just from me) .

Didn't mind the second varient so much, but came to prefer the 144's.
The main problem with the Northern Spirit 142s (apart from being 142s, that is) was that the headrest padding wasn't fixed in place, so were too tempting for some people not to rip them off and chuck them about. It was only when Serco/Abellio took over and refreshed them that this recurring issue was solved. Northern Spirit's grey & green colour scheme was much nicer than Northern's though.

Best thing about the 144s was that they retained a few bays of facing seats, much needed with those thick-backed seats that left very little legroom.
 

Journeyman

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Lighting, seat layout, sidewall colours and over-the-top window tinting were all wrong on these and make them a very poor refurbishment.
I genuinely wondered if it was a ploy to get more people to upgrade to First! I was certainly very reluctant to travel in Standard on them.
 

bramling

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The main problem with the Northern Spirit 142s (apart from being 142s, that is) was that the headrest padding wasn't fixed in place, so were too tempting for some people not to rip them off and chuck them about. It was only when Serco/Abellio took over and refreshed them that this recurring issue was solved. Northern Spirit's grey & green colour scheme was much nicer than Northern's though.

Best thing about the 144s was that they retained a few bays of facing seats, much needed with those thick-backed seats that left very little legroom.

I have to say the Northern Spirit 142s were quite comfortable to travel on. The seating layout was odd though, few choices of seat for facing forwards on the right-hand side!

I genuinely wondered if it was a ploy to get more people to upgrade to First! I was certainly very reluctant to travel in Standard on them.

It wasn’t great for sure. Whilst the seats were comfortable enough, the design was rubbish in several other ways. For a start the view out of the window was very poor (mainly due to the height of the seats). Secondly the harsh brown tint on the windows I found a bit nauseating after a while - perhaps a psychological thing where you know something *should* be a particular colour, but you’re seeing something else. Then on top of that reflections of the interior lighting even in bright daylight, and even when the lighting was on the dim setting. The other issue with the high seats was it was difficult to spot which seats were free upon entering a carriage.

A lot of schoolboy errors really.
 

61653 HTAFC

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I have to say the Northern Spirit 142s were quite comfortable to travel on. The seating layout was odd though, few choices of seat for facing forwards on the right-hand side!
Surely that depends which vehicle you're in? :s

(Come to think of it, it's a good while since my last trip on one, so I can't recall the exact orientation of the seating. I prefer facing backwards in general anyway)
 

bramling

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Surely that depends which vehicle you're in? :s

(Come to think of it, it's a good while since my last trip on one, so I can't recall the exact orientation of the seating. I prefer facing backwards in general anyway)

No, the way it was laid out meant there were only two such pairs of seats per train, no matter how the train was oriented. A very odd setup really.
 

py_megapixel

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The worst refurbishments are any of the ones which involved simply taking the TOC's branding colours and splattering them around unsympathetically. By far the most egregious offenders for this were the Sprinters and Pacers of Wessex Trains, First Great Western and Serco-Abellio Northern. I also think the 165s and 166s feel pretty grim but I'm putting that down to them being worn out more than anything.

The best outcome, I'd say TransPennine Express 185s. The onboard ambience is absolutely fantastic.

But the most transformative would probably have to be either the SWR 455 or the Retanus project - honorable mentions go to FGW HSTs (though maybe not transformative in a good way!), ATW and ARN 158s, possibly even the ARN 323s though they didn't get a seat replacement which they probably could have done with.

I have high hopes for the Avanti pendolino refurbishment as well, though time will tell.

SWR= South Western Railway; FGW = First Great Western; ARN = Arriva Rail North ("Northern by Arriva")
 

61653 HTAFC

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No, the way it was laid out meant there were only two such pairs of seats per train, no matter how the train was oriented. A very odd setup really.
Thanks for jogging my memory... funny how the only Pacer refurbishment in the North that kept the as-built seating layout (albeit reduced from 3+2 to 2+2) was the 144s. Even the 142s that retained the original seating had the "observation bay" (opposite the door in the DMS car) switched to airline.
 

yorksrob

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The main problem with the Northern Spirit 142s (apart from being 142s, that is) was that the headrest padding wasn't fixed in place, so were too tempting for some people not to rip them off and chuck them about. It was only when Serco/Abellio took over and refreshed them that this recurring issue was solved. Northern Spirit's grey & green colour scheme was much nicer than Northern's though.

Best thing about the 144s was that they retained a few bays of facing seats, much needed with those thick-backed seats that left very little legroom.

They did seem a bit wobbly. At least there weren't any drop lights for people to lob them out of I suppose.

I did find sitting on the bus seat and Merseyrail pacers a bit like having an audience sat in front to you, which could be a bit disconcerting at times.
 

tetudo boy

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I don't want to prejudge but I am extremely concerned that one of my favourite trains on the network is going to be ruined by the installation of ironing boards, I do hope that the 390 escape this fate
There was actually a video by angel trains showing a rendering of the interior of a refurbished 390. They don't seem to be fitting them with ironing boards, thank god.
 
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