Sadsmileyface
Member
Why dont you like having 158s up north and 156s down south?
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Best TOC
- Thread starter TrainBoy98
- Start date
- Status
Why dont you like having 158s up north and 156s down south?
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
sprinterguy
Established Member
156s are better for rural services; nice big panoramic windows and loads of luggage space; while 158s are suited to the more exacting standards expected of trains between urban centres (Air conditioning, better sound insulation) and have a higher top speed to take advantage of higher speed running on sections of higher quality infrastructure. 90mph is rather wasted north of Inverness.
Exactly!
John55
Member
Do 158s have air conditioning? I have never travelled on one where it was functional, including yesterdays trip from Sheffield to Manchester were all the coaches had the windows open due to A?C failure.
The Scottish Executive (as was) put a lot of money into refurbishing them, so they made sure the air-con worked. When Scotrail tried to swap some of them for 156s, the Executive put their collective foot down, and it did not happen. The 156s went to Norwich instead.
SouthEastern-465
Established Member
Many may disagree with me here, but I'm going to say Southern. I've always thought the standards of their services are very good from my experience, the seating on the suburban services are very comfortable compared to other companies which for me personally makes a huge difference!
Other than that just all round great TOC from my personal experience!
Other than that just all round great TOC from my personal experience!
I've voted for East Midlands Trains, as they've substantially improved my local services since they took over the franchise. Much improved punctuality and well refurbished stock have made travelling in the East Midlands a much better experience for me.
I've also given Northern a vote. They get slated on here far too often for various reasons, but I've found them nothing but better than the previous incumbents - the trains actually run between Sheffield and Lincoln now!
I considered my votes based only on franchises I use regularly.
I've also given Northern a vote. They get slated on here far too often for various reasons, but I've found them nothing but better than the previous incumbents - the trains actually run between Sheffield and Lincoln now!
I considered my votes based only on franchises I use regularly.
SS4
Established Member
It's too hard to pick an objective best.
Chiltern, the current leader, operates virtually by itself on a significant part of its route and has recently hiked fares on mainline.
Island line is much the same.
No TOC carries as many passengers as LU so it would be unfair to compare them to Grand Central who run only a few services per day.
If I were on Eurostar I'd expect more facilities and a better quality of ride than I would from a domestic service of equivalent class.
If I were to vote I'd go with London Midland for opening up (more) off peak services to the Trent Valley and Crewe and having good ticket prices for their services to London but since I don't have much experience I shan't be voting.
Chiltern, the current leader, operates virtually by itself on a significant part of its route and has recently hiked fares on mainline.
Island line is much the same.
No TOC carries as many passengers as LU so it would be unfair to compare them to Grand Central who run only a few services per day.
If I were on Eurostar I'd expect more facilities and a better quality of ride than I would from a domestic service of equivalent class.
If I were to vote I'd go with London Midland for opening up (more) off peak services to the Trent Valley and Crewe and having good ticket prices for their services to London but since I don't have much experience I shan't be voting.
Many may disagree with me here, but I'm going to say Southern. I've always thought the standards of their services are very good from my experience, the seating on the suburban services are very comfortable compared to other companies which for me personally makes a huge difference!
Other than that just all round great TOC from my personal experience!
Great that you can ride 377s on the metro network in London, although a bit of a fail to put 313's on Coastway services. Otherwise I'd agree.
- Joined
- 23 Mar 2011
- Messages
- 2,571
The 313s are fine for the services they are used on. It may feel slightly less modern, but you're very unlikely to be on them long enough to really notice.
aspierail
Member
There is no such thing as best TOC however what i will say is that there are some good ones and some bad ones.
HSTEd
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 14 Jul 2011
- Messages
- 16,727
East Coast, they have put in a very good performance, and without any post-privatisation rolling stock.
And they have done it while registering the lowest per-passenger-mile subsidy of any of the franchises save for FCC, which is a special case thanks to how much money has been spent on it recently.
And they have done it while registering the lowest per-passenger-mile subsidy of any of the franchises save for FCC, which is a special case thanks to how much money has been spent on it recently.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
There appears to be a fault with the the poll - I want to vote for British Rail.
I don't want to vote for a bus company or a PR driven machine or a rampant capitalist company interested only in profits above all else or the German or Dutch Railway State Companies.
I don't want to vote for a bus company or a PR driven machine or a rampant capitalist company interested only in profits above all else or the German or Dutch Railway State Companies.
Well I wanted to vote for the LNER. Now there was a company that had both style and substance!
Ducks!
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I agree AND they built trains in Darlington
No such thing as the best TOC in my opinion, they're all vaguely good at some things and shockingly poor at others. I'm leaving rolling stock out of my comments, as I don't think that really affects how management manage on a day to day basis. Only ones mentioned are those I have considerable experience of.
XC - overbid, cut costs and service to try and plug the leakage. To their credit, they have partially succeeded. More reliable and on-time than previous operator, seem to look after their staff and contrary to popular opinion, I think the blanket off-peak fare restriction 2V is a good thing.
TPE - offer reasonable Advance fares offset against pretty astronomical non-regulated fares. Fairly imaginative with timetabling and stock provision, and seem fairly quick to respond to any repeated problem on their network by tinkering. Their disruption plan is also one of the best - it seems to be run everything through to time, and pick up the most relevant working back, thus restoring the network and allowing most passengers to travel.
LM - their Super Off-Peak fares are great value, and they do well out of providing competition to Virgin and Chiltern. However it wasn't their invention, so bit unfair to give them the credit! Great at customer interaction, good customer service department and good innovation too eg Plan 110. However, their disruption plan is woeful ie shut an entire part of the network down, working closely with other staff reveals how poor internal relations are and generally the consensus is that the entire upper floor should be got rid of. Also, Northampton and Bletchley guards depot suffer from can't-exit-back-cab-itis and are doing a great deal to encourage McNulty fans of the case for DOO.
LO - reinvented the roles of all traincrew, have a slick operation and keep everything clean and tidy. Simple premise, ie clockface throughout the day, but it works. All staff seem to know everything about the network which is great (I asked a member of station staff at Sydenham about train times from Acton and he was spot on - try asking the same of a Virgin assistant at Euston about Stoke and you're met blankly). Heavy targets to meet, and it works. In my opinion, the best of a bad bunch and a great model to use going forward for urban rail networks.
ME - simple network, simple premise like LO and it works. LO pips ME purely because of the investment in the former makes for a far nicer passenger experience. Sampling the chocolate brown panels underground on any of the loop stations is enough to make you hurl. Oh and the daytickets are a rip-off and shouldn't be allowed in my humble opinion, especially as they remove journey options off the ME network too.
NT - despite crippling underinvestment in most of their network, the franchise by definition connects communities that otherwise have little public transport. The staff are on-the-whole, moreso than any other franchise, friendly and helpful (but that's just because us Northerners are great
) they have good value fares even when not PTE sponsored and make the best of a bad set of circumstances. I can't wait to be rid of ClogRail though, morale seems to have plummeted in recent months as they seem to be intent on wringing every penny from the franchise.
SR - high targets set by Holyrood seem to keep the franchise on their toes. Do a good enough job, except Haymarket Depot can hardly get the trains out of the sidings let alone to Inverness and back - their figures are pretty bad.
SWT - in common with Stagecoach's joint venture, the fat seems to need trimming from SWT. Productivity improvements have helped though, and the deep alliance should reduce costs. Management seem to be fairly hands on, and chucking money at a problem seems to improve things. But then again having had 15+ years now, you'd hope that that'd be the case.
SN - underrated in my opinion. Great value fares, consistently good across the board. Metro services seem to suffer the most out of any service, but they keep most user groups happy, have very hands on management and are pro-active at trying to determine the future of services in South London. The priority card is also a great idea. Minus points for a shambolic service recovery procedure, much like LM, and minus points again for being so crap with GatEx.
VT - my least favourite franchise. Staff are generally obnoxious and think they're wonderful, management are twice as bad. Irritatingly good at spin and selective truthmongering, massive fare rises, anti-customer when it suits them eg no cards, poorly trained RPI staff and while the customer service department are generous in their payouts, it can take an irritatingly long time to get through to them. Also responsible for introducing the astronomical wage rises of staff by starting to poach from other franchises, played dirty when passing XC over and then feigned innocence, dragged their heels over franchise commitments for XC just because they wanted to, and wrote in staff transfers from Blackpool, Brighton, Liverpool and Birmingham to London just to ensure that other companies couldn't have them, leading to a mass exodus and no gain for Virgin as none of the staff from Blackpool and Brighton wanted to move to London. Leaving aside the previous screwing of the taxpayer, I can't wait for VRG to disappear from the rail network.
XC - overbid, cut costs and service to try and plug the leakage. To their credit, they have partially succeeded. More reliable and on-time than previous operator, seem to look after their staff and contrary to popular opinion, I think the blanket off-peak fare restriction 2V is a good thing.
TPE - offer reasonable Advance fares offset against pretty astronomical non-regulated fares. Fairly imaginative with timetabling and stock provision, and seem fairly quick to respond to any repeated problem on their network by tinkering. Their disruption plan is also one of the best - it seems to be run everything through to time, and pick up the most relevant working back, thus restoring the network and allowing most passengers to travel.
LM - their Super Off-Peak fares are great value, and they do well out of providing competition to Virgin and Chiltern. However it wasn't their invention, so bit unfair to give them the credit! Great at customer interaction, good customer service department and good innovation too eg Plan 110. However, their disruption plan is woeful ie shut an entire part of the network down, working closely with other staff reveals how poor internal relations are and generally the consensus is that the entire upper floor should be got rid of. Also, Northampton and Bletchley guards depot suffer from can't-exit-back-cab-itis and are doing a great deal to encourage McNulty fans of the case for DOO.
LO - reinvented the roles of all traincrew, have a slick operation and keep everything clean and tidy. Simple premise, ie clockface throughout the day, but it works. All staff seem to know everything about the network which is great (I asked a member of station staff at Sydenham about train times from Acton and he was spot on - try asking the same of a Virgin assistant at Euston about Stoke and you're met blankly). Heavy targets to meet, and it works. In my opinion, the best of a bad bunch and a great model to use going forward for urban rail networks.
ME - simple network, simple premise like LO and it works. LO pips ME purely because of the investment in the former makes for a far nicer passenger experience. Sampling the chocolate brown panels underground on any of the loop stations is enough to make you hurl. Oh and the daytickets are a rip-off and shouldn't be allowed in my humble opinion, especially as they remove journey options off the ME network too.
NT - despite crippling underinvestment in most of their network, the franchise by definition connects communities that otherwise have little public transport. The staff are on-the-whole, moreso than any other franchise, friendly and helpful (but that's just because us Northerners are great
) they have good value fares even when not PTE sponsored and make the best of a bad set of circumstances. I can't wait to be rid of ClogRail though, morale seems to have plummeted in recent months as they seem to be intent on wringing every penny from the franchise.SR - high targets set by Holyrood seem to keep the franchise on their toes. Do a good enough job, except Haymarket Depot can hardly get the trains out of the sidings let alone to Inverness and back - their figures are pretty bad.
SWT - in common with Stagecoach's joint venture, the fat seems to need trimming from SWT. Productivity improvements have helped though, and the deep alliance should reduce costs. Management seem to be fairly hands on, and chucking money at a problem seems to improve things. But then again having had 15+ years now, you'd hope that that'd be the case.
SN - underrated in my opinion. Great value fares, consistently good across the board. Metro services seem to suffer the most out of any service, but they keep most user groups happy, have very hands on management and are pro-active at trying to determine the future of services in South London. The priority card is also a great idea. Minus points for a shambolic service recovery procedure, much like LM, and minus points again for being so crap with GatEx.
VT - my least favourite franchise. Staff are generally obnoxious and think they're wonderful, management are twice as bad. Irritatingly good at spin and selective truthmongering, massive fare rises, anti-customer when it suits them eg no cards, poorly trained RPI staff and while the customer service department are generous in their payouts, it can take an irritatingly long time to get through to them. Also responsible for introducing the astronomical wage rises of staff by starting to poach from other franchises, played dirty when passing XC over and then feigned innocence, dragged their heels over franchise commitments for XC just because they wanted to, and wrote in staff transfers from Blackpool, Brighton, Liverpool and Birmingham to London just to ensure that other companies couldn't have them, leading to a mass exodus and no gain for Virgin as none of the staff from Blackpool and Brighton wanted to move to London. Leaving aside the previous screwing of the taxpayer, I can't wait for VRG to disappear from the rail network.
Last edited:
172212
Member
For what they do I'd say London Midland.
Their punctuality is pretty good.
They have some good stock, from 350 desiros and turbostars (170, 172).
Plus, I use them a lot, they run most of the local services around my area and I have no complaints with them
Their punctuality is pretty good.
They have some good stock, from 350 desiros and turbostars (170, 172).
Plus, I use them a lot, they run most of the local services around my area and I have no complaints with them
Pumbaa seems to have the right take on it, whether you agree with the actual valuations or not. As far as the votes go we have something similar to what I would expect - a "bijou" railway (although they have done an excellent job, they possibly also showcase the benefits of longer franchises) followed by the 3 main InterCity TOCs. The latter have all sorts of a head start over the rest - faster routes and rolling stock, favourable regulation, more comfortable rolling stock, on-board catering, more staff, etc. It's the nature of the beast.
This disparity makes it hard to do a fair comparison. Even LOROL, who've done an excellent job since taking over, have a funding advantage not enjoyed by other commuter TOCs.
I tend to think that LOROL and Chiltern show what an be done with the right setup, i.e. sufficent funding, whichever way it comes. If government allows this, then most of the TOCS will deliver almost regardless of who the owning group is.
This disparity makes it hard to do a fair comparison. Even LOROL, who've done an excellent job since taking over, have a funding advantage not enjoyed by other commuter TOCs.
I tend to think that LOROL and Chiltern show what an be done with the right setup, i.e. sufficent funding, whichever way it comes. If government allows this, then most of the TOCS will deliver almost regardless of who the owning group is.
SS4
Established Member
Both have relatively small, self-contained networks which bumps up reliability figures. That's not to say they're bad TOCs - far from it - but gives an unfair advantage in comparison IMO. If the poll had different sections I'd feel better. I'd be pretty annoyed with LOROL stock/procedure from Birmingham to London yet VT or Chiltern are completely OTT for a metro-style operation of frequent stops.
- Status