Bi-Linugal Branding/station signs.

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dubscottie

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Over on the FGW livery thread there has been discussion about Cornish being on the new FGW/GWR livery.

What are peoples thoughts?

Some have said it help tourism but it is the national language for some.

I think that, as far as Scotland goes, They are trying to copy The Republic of Ireland with all the bi-lingual signs.

Its not a bad idea. But there was discussion on what is "Scots".

Gaelic regions in the UK are, Scottish Gaelic, Manx, Irish, Welsh & Cornish.

Kids are struggling with English as it is with out "slang" being made acceptable.

Should we start having the PA in Latin as well??

Where do we stop?
 
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Agent_c

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Over on the FGW livery thread there has been discussion about Cornish being on the new FGW/GWR livery.

What are peoples thoughts?

Some have said it help tourism but it is the national language for some.

I think that, as far as Scotland goes, They are trying to copy The Republic of Ireland with all the bi-lingual signs.

Its not a bad idea. But there was discussion on what is "Scots".

Gaelic regions in the UK are, Scottish Gaelic, Manx, Irish, Welsh & Cornish.

Kids are struggling with English as it is with out "slang" being made acceptable.

Should we start having the PA in Latin as well??

Where do we stop?
Are there any areas, outside of a cathederal and an educational institution, where latin is frequently used in conversation?
 

lazydragon

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Its not a bad idea. But there was discussion on what is "Scots".

Gaelic regions in the UK are, Scottish Gaelic, Manx, Irish, Welsh & Cornish.

Kids are struggling with English as it is with out "slang" being made acceptable.
What other meaning are you trying to ascribe to the word slang by putting it in the quotation marks?

I'm not sure of the population percentage that speak Scots Gaelic, but the fact that children aren't being educated to a level to understand one language shouldn't mean that you then discriminate against others who speak another language in my view.

Then again, we Welsh speakers have always been prone to protest. ;)
 

rf_ioliver

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Its not a bad idea. But there was discussion on what is "Scots".
Gaelic regions in the UK are, Scottish Gaelic, Manx, Irish, Welsh & Cornish.
Kids are struggling with English as it is with out "slang" being made acceptable.
Should we start having the PA in Latin as well??
Where do we stop?
For a start Scots is a dialect or language variant of English. Welsh and Cornish are NOT Gaelic languages, but Brythionic languages. The 5 you've listed are together Celtic languages. There's quite a big linguistic difference between the two groups.

In the UK there are a number of indigenous languages, in particular the UK has three living and "official" languages: Scots Gaelic, Welsh and English. Irish in Northern Ireland and Cornish have a slightly different statuses.

Where do we stop? Well, there's a common sense answer which is to use those languages which are official and living in those areas to service to/from those areas. So on trains in and to/from Wales I'd expect to hear Welsh and English; similarly on Scottish services, though that poses a different problem in that Scots Gaelic is much more confined to certain areas than Welsh is for example. There really is no problem with multiple language usage and if GWR wish to use Cornish on services to Cornwall as a method of promotion then that's fine. Similarly use of Scots on lowland Scottish services if Scotrail or whoever so wish.

Use of other languages can be considered for certain purposes, eg: Latin and Urdu have been used on railway signage, but the cases here are very specific-

I'm not sure what you mean by "Kids are struggling with English as it is with out "slang" being made acceptable" - in that everyone understands a core English and slang words are part of a language/dialect/subculture and part of the evolution and development of language. I certainly don't think there is anyone who can't communicate outside of some slang, unless it has developed to such a point where you have a whole community speaking a patois or creole. Once you've reached that point, you've effectively got a new language developing.

t.

Ian
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Gardeners, those involved with animals, archaeologists, palentologists.
Finnish radio: http://areena.yle.fi/1-1931339

t.

Ian
 

StarCrossing

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Gaelic regions in the UK are, Scottish Gaelic, Manx, Irish, Welsh & Cornish.

Kids are struggling with English as it is with out "slang" being made acceptable.
Have I understood you correctly? Are you saying you consider Celtic languages to be slang and the use of them to be unacceptable? Interesting opinion if so...
 

VisualAcid

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Before I got used to rocking up to Cardiff Central and knowing which platform did what, looking up to see all the stations in Welsh was infuriating <( ban it all.
 

edwin_m

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Some parts of Wales/Scotland/Cornwall may not have many speakers of the local language but bi-lingual signage demonstrates a community identity and doesn't do any harm.

What is much more problematic is bi-lingual passenger information, especially when it's not been very well thought through. By the time a Heart of Wales train has been announced in two languages at Swansea, including all of its numerous stops and the rather verbose details of which ones are by request and if so how to command a stop, then the train has probably left! Once on board the announcements are only in English (unless there are some pre-recorded ones) and I wouldn't lay any money on a Welsh speaker being able to make themselves understood if trying to request a stop in that language.
 

D841 Roebuck

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I find the rage over bi-lingual signage really funny.

It costs little or nothing to do.
+1

More irritating is the "plugging" of various business/educational establishments/tourist attractions on station signs.

Besides, Cwmroch has a certain style about it, should my hometown ever need renaming... :)
 

infobleep

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It's not the only language used in this country. Many other languages are used. Some officially recognised and others not so.

The Ordnance Survey publish their Web Site in English and Welsh. They don't however publish it in Scots Gaelic.

Would you ban the Welsh from speaking and leaning Welsh? I personally wouldn't and welcome the survival of such languages.

Welsh singing is very beautiful.
 

Llanigraham

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English is the language used in this country and should be the only language used in official communications and signage.
Fine in englandshire, but I don't live in englanshire!:roll:
In our Principality we have 2 official languages, Welsh and english, therefore they should both be used.
In Scotland they should also have Gaelic, in Cornwall Cornish Brythonic, and in the Isle of Man, Manx.
And if anyone says I live in england I am very quick to correct them!<D
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Not what you said!
See above.
 

TheNewNo2

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English is the language used in this country and should be the only language used in official communications and signage.
That's somewhat racist. While I don't doubt that someone in the UK who doesn't know English will have a very hard time, there are many people for whom English is not their mother tongue, and it is frankly a very hard language to learn. If it helps them to have forms and things available in a language they are more fluent in, then I'm all for it.

I also note that your stance means that all the French signs at St Pancras would have to be ripped out...
 

crehld

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English is the language used in this country and should be the only language used in official communications and signage.
which country are you talking about!!
There is no official language of the UK. English is the de facto standard, but has no official standing. My understanding is the only languages in the UK to be afforded legal status are Welsh and Scottish Gaelic in their respective territories.
 

DarloRich

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humour really is wasted on some of you isn't it? (although Llanigraham & Crehld nearly got there ;) )

I don't mind signs and announcements in other languages as long as the English words come first, if only for the accessibility of all. What does concern me is the suggestion that we should use dialect on official signage. Toon anyone?
 

Greenback

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There should be a standard format of signage where two languages are being used. Actually, this might be the case already, but if it isn't, then it should be!

I don't agree with the use of dialects.
 

infobleep

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humour really is wasted on some of you isn't it? (although Llanigraham & Crehld nearly got there ;) )

I don't mind signs and announcements in other languages as long as the English words come first, if only for the accessibility of all. What does concern me is the suggestion that we should use dialect on official signage. Toon anyone?
Sometimes it's very hard to work out humour on a forum that is text based. Some humour doesn't translate so well to the written word.
 

PHILIPE

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Welsh is an official language (nor is it slang) and is legislated to be used by all public bodies within Wales which is a bi-lingual country.
 

kevin5025

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That's somewhat racist. While I don't doubt that someone in the UK who doesn't know English will have a very hard time, there are many people for whom English is not their mother tongue, and it is frankly a very hard language to learn. If it helps them to have forms and things available in a language they are more fluent in, then I'm all for it.

I also note that your stance means that all the French signs at St Pancras would have to be ripped out...
I think there are two issues here. English is our main language, and people who live here should learn it. I am Scottish, but I don't like the Gaelic agenda. I have seen it move from a cultural interest to something of an obsession, linked to nationalism. It is used (language itself is neutral) to cause division. I would love to see the day when everyone spoke the same language (and it doesn't need to be English, Madarin anyone :lol: ?). It would make life easier, and hopefully break down some of the tribalism and division in the world. I see the Gaelic agenda as working in the opposite direction, and for that reason I am against taking part in it.

However, we absolutely should have multi lingual signs, websites etc. We have so many visitors to this country and it is really hard for them because we translate nothing. I wish the resources would go into that kind of translations! We should provide more French information at St Pancras, and other stations and languages because those people don't speak English.
 

misterredmist

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I have nothing against local signage being bi-lingual in those areas where the indigenous language is spoken , just like when we enter Wales by road, we have bi-lingual signage....
the important thing is not to over do it.....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
That's somewhat racist.


..
I think your comment is OTT - the poster concerned was just stating their opinion - there's always one......
 
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adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
I think there are two issues here. English is our main language, and people who live here should learn it. I am Scottish, but I don't like the Gaelic agenda. I have seen it move from a cultural interest to something of an obsession, linked to nationalism. It is used (language itself is neutral) to cause division. I would love to see the day when everyone spoke the same language (and it doesn't need to be English, Madarin anyone :lol: ?). It would make life easier, and hopefully break down some of the tribalism and division in the world. I see the Gaelic agenda as working in the opposite direction, and for that reason I am against taking part in it.

However, we absolutely should have multi lingual signs, websites etc. We have so many visitors to this country and it is really hard for them because we translate nothing. I wish the resources would go into that kind of translations! We should provide more French information at St Pancras, and other stations and languages because those people don't speak English.
Regarding Scottish Gaelic, I believe it was not widely used around Aberdeen/Stonehaven areas; instead, it was the Doric dialect that was commonly used.

I seem to remember an MSP from that neck of the woods taking their oath in Doric when being sworn in. It may have been the 2007 election, but I'm not absolutely certain when it was exactly.
 

rf_ioliver

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There is no official language of the UK. English is the de facto standard, but has no official standing. My understanding is the only languages in the UK to be afforded legal status are Welsh and Scottish Gaelic in their respective territories.
Welsh is de jure (by law) in Wales - and as far as I can work out English too (ie: English is also a de jure language in Wales)

t.

Ian
 
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