Big fare increase for Merseyrail

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by First class, 24 Aug 2010.

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  1. First class

    First class Established Member

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    From 9th Sept all remaining off peak day returns set by Merseyrail are withdrawn.

    They will be replaced by a day ticket available for travel after 0930 on Northern/Wirral lines only and will 10p cheaper than a saveaway.
     
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  3. dave4jackie

    dave4jackie Member

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    for quite a lot of tickets that means no change as the most you pay now off peak is £4.40 so it will still be the same price or if it is the same area/zone most you pay is £3.20 same as it is going to be
     
  4. First class

    First class Established Member

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    But other fares set my Merseyrail e.g Liverpool to Warrington would see the CDR removed .
     
  5. OwlMan

    OwlMan Established Member

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    I think you have the wrong end of the stick here.

    From September the CDR fare from Liverpool Stations to Warrington stations increases by 10p from £4-90 to £5-00

    Peter
     
  6. aformeruser

    aformeruser Veteran Member

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    I'm confused as Warrington is on the City Line not the Northern or Wirral line.
     
  7. ChrisTheRef

    ChrisTheRef Established Member

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    Merseyrail price the flow, not that it really explains what he's on about
     
  8. tony_mac

    tony_mac Established Member

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    I think he's just saying that Merseyrail are going to remove all their CDRs!
    Then, in a move that is actually completely pointless, but so that they can claim many fares are not going up and they are increasing the value - they are going to introduce a £4.40 'day rover' ticket for just their own electric lines.

    If it's true (and I have no reason to doubt it) it's a big fare rise for a lot of people (e.g. 25%) introduced at very short notice.
     
  9. First class

    First class Established Member

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    Right, a bit more information, some quite negative actually.

    Only 16-25 and Senior railcard discounts seem to be permitted. Therefore families/HMF/disabled with railcards may see bigger fare rises. I suspect one of the reasons is that Merseyrail are trying to get people to buy the Merseyrail family day ranger rather than multi-operator fares.

    The details are rather sketchy but it will give more flexibility to the passenger, and should reduce over-distance Penalty Fares. For most passengers I don't think they will see a large increase, maybe 20 or 30p.

    As for Northern/Wirral to the City Line, I think the best option is to buy a saveaway as the new product is not available for travel on any other TOC.

    I don't want to say much on this matter, but I think on the whole, the benefits may outweigh the negatives, but there will be inevitable negative press. I only have heard sketchy details as I've said, but it's a case of wait and see how it is implemented on the 9th September.
     
  10. aformeruser

    aformeruser Veteran Member

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    This has appeared on the Granada Reports Facebook page now. It'll be interesting to see how much airtime (if any) they give to the story following the disabled passenger vs Northern story.
     
  11. mickey

    mickey Member

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    This is ridiculous. When they got rid of off peak fares a couple of years back my fare went up by over 30% overnight - and no one made any kind of fuss so they just got away with it. They *promised* then that they wouldn't have any more big fare rises, yet they go and do this. And because it's a re-naming not a re-pricing they get away with it!
     
  12. ukrob

    ukrob Established Member

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    Says the person who doesn't have to pay for his tickets anyway.

    Unless I have missed something, the fares are going up. How does that benefit the average person in the street?
     
  13. First class

    First class Established Member

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    The fare goes up but you get unlimited off peak travel on Merseyrail services for less than the saveaway cost, with some railcard discounts also available.

    You are never going to pay more than a saveaway cost.
     
  14. ukrob

    ukrob Established Member

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    Seems a very strange way of doing things (not strange from a business perspective).

    Any information when leaflets/posters will be appearing?
     
  15. tony_mac

    tony_mac Established Member

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    Anyone who wanted unlimited travel would have bought a saveaway anyway, so it doesn't actually give anything extra for the increased fare. It saves some people 10p, but is a much more restrictive ticket.
    Some people who want unlimited travel on Merseyrail and have a railcard will benefit - everyone else with a railcard will lose out.

    It's simply a 25% fare rise for me, and a lot of other people.

    This looks more like an attempt to snatch revenue from other operators than anything else.
     
  16. mickey

    mickey Member

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    What if I don't want unlimited travel? What if I just want to go from A to B and now have to pay considerably more for the privilege?

    By all means introduce a ranger ticket for those who do want it, and advertise it like hell to make people buy it, but it should be in addition to the normal offering, not instead of it. It's not for railway managers to tell me what I do and don't want.
     
  17. aformeruser

    aformeruser Veteran Member

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    So it's just the same as bus operators withdrawing return tickets and replacing them with day tickets. Someone who used to pay £2.40 return instead pays £1.40 each way, as the day ticket costs £3.50-£4.

    Remember Saveaways are only limited by boundary not operator. From the original post it sounds like this new ticket is a Merseyrail only ticket, meaning you can't, for example, use it on Northern/LM/EMT services between Liverpool SP and Liverpool LS.
     
  18. First class

    First class Established Member

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    This will now be introduced on the 4th Sept. Very limited details available at www.Merseyrail.org

    Only available for travel with Merseyrail.
     
  19. ukrob

    ukrob Established Member

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    If this ranger ticket is 10p cheaper than an all zones Saveaway like you said, an example would be Formby - Liverpool is £3.75 off peak, the Saveaway is £4.50 so the new ticket will be £4.40. I'm yet to see understand how anyone can think that a rise of 65p has benefits which outweigh negatives?

    If people wanted the ability to have a ranger ticket they would buy a Saveaway anyway which gives much more flexibility.
     
    Last edited: 28 Aug 2010
  20. OwlMan

    OwlMan Established Member

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    Does anyone know if this fare increase comes from Merseyrail or is it the PTE changing the subsidies to make the fares in line with the buses?

    Peter
     
  21. aformeruser

    aformeruser Veteran Member

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    The fares will be a lot higher than buses.

    With Arriva Merseyside it's generally £1.70 single or £3.30 for a Merseyside day ticket or for £4 you can get an Arriva North West day ticket. With the latter you could do Middlewich-Winsford station by Arriva then get the train to Liverpool, then get another Arriva bus to St Helens and do the reverse going backwards and it'd be £4+cost of train ticket.
     
  22. First class

    First class Established Member

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    I would imagine that the Saveaway price will increase by 20-30p at the next fare round and this 'new' ticket remains the same price to make it better value, (although Merseyrail Anytime fares may well also increase).

    There are a few journeys where I believe this is more negative than others:

    Liverpool-Chester. Any Permitted Off Peak Day tickets no longer available, so you can't go via Warrington/Runcorn unless paying for the much more expensive route Warrington ticket, (£8 odd) or the Anytime Day any permitted ticket, (£6.20). (Or a Shotton-Liverpool ticket which is cheaper again).

    Chester-Ellesmere Port. If I've got this right, then this journey now becomes £4.30.

    The fare increase comes from Merseyrail I imagine because they will get 100% revenue allocation of this new ticket. The saveway ticket is priced by Merseytravel, so it is pointless Merseyrail charging more for an off-peak ticket than the saveaway price. Only the Anytime fare is regulated.

    Incidentally, flyers and posters are now up at certain locations.

    There's a few loopholes I can think of, but I'll have to see how they work in practice when this all begins next week.

    Remember, this is NOT part of the fare rounds. This is officially just a product withdrawal and a product introduction.

    I'm just disappointed that railcard discounts are VERY limited, (HMF, FAM, PRV, New Deal etc are not given any discounts on this new ticket, just the anytime).
     
  23. chrismid259

    chrismid259 Member

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    So, from September 4, we can only buy Off-Peak tickets on the Merseyrail network whereas before they didn't seem to use off-peak tickets at all.

    All the tickets I've ever purchased from Merseyrail stations have been Anytime tickets.

    For a journey on September 9, 2010;
    Liverpool-Chester:
    off-peak = £4.40
    anytime (any route) = £6.15
    anytime (birkenhead) = £6.20

    The price of the off-peak ticket used to be an Anytime ticket.

    If I've got this all right, then the new scheme seems pointless for customers. Wouldn't this mean that commuters who don't have a season pass will have to pay about £2 more for their journey?

    I may have this wrong.
     
  24. ukrob

    ukrob Established Member

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    I don't really follow?

    There are not off peak tickets for all possible journeys at the moment, only for some. Lots of off peak tickets were removed a while back. The ones that still exist are being withdrawn.
     
  25. chrismid259

    chrismid259 Member

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    Hmm... I must be wrong then. I thought that Merseyrail only issued Anytime tickets at their stations. I did a search on thetrainline and off-peak tickets appear on some journeys.

    If I'm honest, I don't really understand their new system that is only very briefly explained on the Merseyrail website. I guess we'll have to wait and see how these new tickets work.
     
  26. mickey

    mickey Member

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    If only! The £1.70 single and £3.30 day fare is for the Liverpool zone only, not 'Merseyside'. Wirral and Southport are NOT covered, despite being very much Merseyside.

    The NW area ticket, which does cover them, is now £4.20. A single from Wirral to Liverpool, even from the stop just before the tunnel to the one after, is £2.70.
     
  27. chrismid259

    chrismid259 Member

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    Bus fares have always been expensive compared to train fares.

    My nearest station is Broad Green, a 15 minute walk from home. The train costs me £1.30 return (with a railcard) to Lime Street whilst Arriva would charge me £1.70 one-way which means £3.30 both ways.

    I'll most definitely walk 15 minutes for the sake of saving £2 every time I travel into town.
     
  28. Pumbaa

    Pumbaa Established Member

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    Balls - there goes my cheap tricks. I have to say I'm disappointed, I can't see the benefits for the average traveller at all. If ranger tickets were wanted, they'd have been bought instead. If I want to go to Formby and back, that's all I want to pay for!!
     
  29. aformeruser

    aformeruser Veteran Member

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    arrivabus.co.uk needs updating then.

    £1.85 for Hamilton Square to James Street on the train.

    Do Arriva have to pay the Mersey tunnel toll?
     
  30. Polarbear

    Polarbear Established Member

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    Yes they do. The buses are fitted with "fast tag" activators so that no cash changes hands, but it's £2.80 per trip through the tunnel for each bus.

    No doubt the bus operators obtain some form of discount for bulk buying or have a contract of some sort?

    Old post above - new post below

    I note that the Merseyrail website says that prices for the new daysaver passes "start from" £3.20. That suggests that more than one will be available. The website says little more, which suggests that they have something to hide, (a large fare increase for short journeys).

    If there is one thing I can't abide with the railway since privitisation, it's the underhand way in which fare increases are brought in - often marketed (masked) as being of benefit to the customer but in actual fact of more benefit to the operator.
     
    Last edited: 31 Aug 2010
  31. mickey

    mickey Member

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    No. I believe the only discount they get is the standard one for using a fast tag, which makes it £2.60 per single trip through the tunnel. I'm fairly sure even if they wanted to they wouldn't be allowed to negotiate discounts because of competition rules - otherwise Merseytravel (who ultimately own and operate the tunnels) would surely by now have ruled that local buses can use them free?
    I have a feeling this just means the standard railcard/none division, which would be £3.20 and £4.40 respectively, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
     
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