Big fare increase for Merseyrail

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by First class, 24 Aug 2010.

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  1. nedchester

    nedchester Established Member

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    and I seem to remember that when the franchise started there was a claim that prices would never rise greater than the rate of inflation. However, you can get round that by removing tickets and introducing others.

    Quite underhand and corrupt really?
     
  2. mickey

    mickey Member

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    Definitely.
     
  3. ukrob

    ukrob Established Member

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    £3.20 and £4.40 are confirmed for one area and all zones respectively.

    The leaflets are out.
     
  4. jonnyb1978

    jonnyb1978 Member

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    Quite simply a backdoor price increase without it being official.
    Having already penalised railpass customers for the engineering work by not giving out a refund they feel they need to target the Off peak travellers.
    For some will only mean a 5 or 10p increase.
    The bigger gap come with a hefty increase.. EG
    West Kirby - Liverpool CDR for any shoppers or whatever reason. Existing price of £3.55. This will be withdrawn and customer given a choice of 3 tickets. A standard return @ £4.20, A new day saver @ £4.40 for unlimited train use, or a £4.50 all zone saveaway for unlimited train,bus and ferry use.

    A minumum increase of 18.3%. Simply a disgrace to Merseyrails customers!
     
  5. tony_mac

    tony_mac Established Member

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    with my railcard, I get
    Broadgreen to Liverpool goes from £1.30 to £1.65 (+25%)
    Broadgreen to Chester goes from £2.90 to £4.15 (+40%)

    While they are still fairly cheap, I do object to the poorly publicised and underhand way it is being done.
     
  6. mickey

    mickey Member

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    Given the examples by jonny and tony above, is there the basis for a complaint to the Office for Rail Regulation (or whatever they're called nowadays)? I mean, 40% is just ridiculous.
     
  7. jonnyb1978

    jonnyb1978 Member

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    To be honest this new Day saver ticket can only be used on Merseyrail trains so Broadgreen should not be affected as its on the City Line but don't take that as gospel. This mean the CDR ticket may still be available.

    As for complaining i dont think there is any grounds unfortunately. They are simply withdrawing a ticket and bringing in a new one. For some the new one will have minimal effect and to some extent a saving of a few pence.

    The problem is the underhandness and lack of publication informing people of an increase.
     
  8. tony_mac

    tony_mac Established Member

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    according to the first post, the cdr will be withdrawn for all merseyrail priced tickets.
    But, with three days to go to the increase, there is still almost no official information available.

    Which doesn't actually say what is happening on the City line.
     
  9. ukrob

    ukrob Established Member

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    Why would anything be happening on the City Line? The City Line is Northern Rail.
     
  10. tony_mac

    tony_mac Established Member

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    because Merseyrail price the fares.
     
  11. ukrob

    ukrob Established Member

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    Fair enough. I thought that was changed a while back.
     
  12. dave4jackie

    dave4jackie Member

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    at the moment off peak is also before 06.30 on merseyrail but when this new tkt starts it will only be valid after 09.30
     
  13. First class

    First class Established Member

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    Personally, I think the B1 restriction is the best restriction out there really. Not too early, not too late.

    As for this product in general, that's not so great.

    From what I can gather folks, a Northern/Wirral - Edge Hill should appear as a CDR (B1) as the City Line does not appear to be affected as much, but would have to wait as staff have only been given an A4 sheet with very, very limited information as usual- so I may be wrong.
     
  14. jonnyb1978

    jonnyb1978 Member

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    They seem to want to focus on customer service yet they are going backwards. A lot of managers have been out this week giving out free umbrellas to soften the blow. Why could they not be out next week when the new ticket comes in explaining to customers why some have to pay an increase of nearly 20%. Two birds, one stone!

    Have been reading an article on the Grand National in that staff were pre printing tickets that were 75p more than the normal ticket to Aintree as its easier to sell and quicker to get queues down etc.... After the complaints had gone in Merseyrail did say they would offer refunds, but how many of these people actually seen this statment, and more importantly how much profit was generated from what is in effect stealing of the public.

    The only thing driving Merseyrail forward is profit and revenue. Sod the public!
     
  15. nedchester

    nedchester Established Member

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    So looking at the Merseyrail website states:

    Off Peak Day Saver. From the 5th September 2010 Cheap day return tickets will be replaced with an all day rail ticket which allows unlimited off peak travel across Merseyrail Wirral and Northern line services. You can purchase your Day Saver Ticket at any Merseyrail ticket office or any ticket vending machine

    So I was passing Capenhurst a few minutes ago and had a play with the TVM. Liverpool / Southport tickets come up with Anytime Single / Return and 'Off Peak' Single No mention of Day Saver or how to get it.

    So basically Merseyrail are lying by saying the ticket is available from the TVMs because as far as I can see it is not. Hapless passengers are being forced to pay the full £4.80 Anytime return if they wish to go to Liverpool.

    If the fare is available on the TVM then it is well hidden.

    Very poor!
     
  16. First class

    First class Established Member

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    What a farce!

    The ticket type is 'Merseyrail Saver' and is issued as a single ticket, SGL printed in the top right hand corner.

    Destination is either Northwirral Lines or MR Only Area C etc...

    The route is +Any Permitted which somehow gives it validity on London Underground. I wonder how long it takes before Merseyrail realise they're losing ORCATS revenue to TfL through their own mistake?

    The other thing of note is that TVMs are not able to issue these tickets, or Saveaways, so effectively you're stuck paying the Anytime Day tickets. Ironically, although they have removed the CDRs, someone has clearly forgot about the CDS tickets they created.

    The tickets have been issued in this way so that there is a clear difference between a Saveaway and this MRAIL Only day saver.

    I feel sorry for you guys who have to pay- I'd complain to Passenger Focus personally, (and I'd use the ticket to open the LU barriers!).
     
  17. ukrob

    ukrob Established Member

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    That is absolutely 100% unacceptable. You can't withdraw off peak tickets from TVMs and not add their (rip off) replacement to them - forcing people to buy Anytime tickets.

    I expect it will be rectified during the next few days - especially as the website says you can buy the new tickets from TVMs.

    Nice little earner for Merseyrail between now and then though, because you can guarantee they won't be putting posters up offering refunds of the difference.

    I wonder if anyone will use them in London (if indeed they work) before Merseyrail change it.

    I have just done some checking on NRE - and a journey I make regularly from the City Line to Northern Line has jumped from £4.40 to £4.85 due to the withdrawal of off-peak tickets. With the added bonus of the new ticket type not being available. So it is confirmed it is all tickets that Merseyrail price. I tell a lie. The off-peak ticket is still there. Priced at £57.00.
     
    Last edited: 5 Sep 2010
  18. nedchester

    nedchester Established Member

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    I would say that if you are boarding at an unmanned station then you should not be required to pay the penalty fare if you want an off peak ticket and the TVM will not sell you one.

    I've just fired off an email to Merseyrail regarding this.

    Just because Merseyrail cannot man the station should not penalise the passenger and I think Merseyrail could well be in the 'brown stuff' over this.
     
    Last edited: 5 Sep 2010
  19. John @ home

    John @ home Established Member Fares Advisor

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    Ah! Then is it valid Chester - West Ruislip - London Underground - Harrow & Wealdstone - Southport? The grounds for validity would be:
    • Chester is a valid Origin for this ticket.
    • Southport is part of the destination group 'Northwirral Lines'
    • The shortest route is always valid.
    • We know from previous correspondence with ATOC that, when calculating the shortest route, distances travelled by Underground are ignored.
    • The '+' symbol gives the passenger the right to include Underground travel.
    • The route above is the shortest route by National Rail between the origin and a member of the destination group including Underground travel.
     
  20. First class

    First class Established Member

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    The 'official' procedure is to buy a valid ticket, and sort out at your destination. E.g. buy a Chester-Liverpool SDS, and change there. I once got a reply which basically said if you want these products, you'll have to go to a staffed station beforehand.
     
  21. nedchester

    nedchester Established Member

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    Well I'll be travelling later this week from Capenhurst and won't be happy if this hasn't been resolved. I will certainly not be buying an anytime ticket!!! Could of course try and buy a single and excess to the Day Saver.

    They can sell seasons from the TVMs so why not their new tickets? They are ripping people off.

    Let's see what reply I get from the email I just sent...........otherwise as suggested a letter to passenger focus........
     
  22. First class

    First class Established Member

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    Merseyrail price the CDR as follows:

    Small collection of examples:

    Liverpool-Warrington (was £4.90) now SDR is £6.75
    Liverpool-Widnes (was £4.70) now SDR is £5.70
    Liverpool-Newton Le Willows (was £4.20) now SDR is £5.25
    Bootle-Warrington (was £5.90) now SDR is £8.30
    Ormskirk-Runcorn (was £5.70) now SDR is £7.40

    BUT!!

    Liverpool South Parkway - Burscough Bridge CDR was £10.00-
    Now the CDR has gone, you have to pay a SDR which costs £17.90!!! (70% increase!)
     
  23. ukrob

    ukrob Established Member

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    It just shows they should have left the routes they don't actually run any trains on alone. It is quite scandalous they can do it to routes they don't run on.
     
  24. First class

    First class Established Member

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    I don't understand why they would do it though.

    They don't gain anything* from ORCATS and it would probably be easier for them to transfer these fares to Northern/TPE/LMR.

    There surely must be a misunderstanding somewhere along the way here...

    *except maybe a few pence for people travelling around the loop or lvc-hnx...
     
  25. 323235

    323235 Established Member

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    East Coast will still let me buy that Liverpool South Parkway - Burscough Bridge CDR.
     
  26. OwlMan

    OwlMan Established Member

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    You are completely wrong here.
    There are still CDR fares available on the above journeys. All are the same price as before except Liverpool - Warrington which is now £5-00.
    Even CDRs like Bootle Oriel Road to Edge Hill still exist (£2-85)

    Stop scaremongering by posting false information.
    The only CDR fares withdrawn are routes wholly on the wirral and Northern lines

    Peter
     
  27. nedchester

    nedchester Established Member

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    Try Capenhurst to Edge Hill on National Rail and only Anytime available!
     
  28. ukrob

    ukrob Established Member

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    100% wrong.
     
  29. smudge.efc

    smudge.efc Member

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    The changes seem to be a bit hit and miss. Tried a variety of journeys from my local station (Fazakerley) on London Midland’s website.

    It would give you Off Peak Returns to Capenhurst, Bache and Chester, but no where else on the Northern/Wirral Lines. On the City Line, it showed Off Peak Returns to every station, apart from those which also appear on the Northern Line.

    I don’t know too much about all this, so aplogies in advance if i’ve missed the point. :oops:
     
  30. jonnyb1978

    jonnyb1978 Member

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    To clarify the TVM issuing instructions.

    To get the DAY SAVER ticket you need to look up Ranger/Rover on the TVM.
    Its under that heading but unfortunately, Merseyrail assume that all customers would have a crystal ball to know this. Probably a deliberate attemt to make the customer pay more.
     
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