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Bimingham International??

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danfitz123

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Hi,

I have a bit of a silly sounding question. I am heading to the classic motor show next weekend. I have found that advanced fares are £18 from Liverpool South Parkway-Birmingham Stations. Is Birmingham International classed as a Birmingham station?(if you catch my drift) or will I have to buy a ticket with the destination-Birmingham International specifically. :|

Thanks
 
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yorkie

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You don't specify what day, so I did a search for Saturday, I could not find one at 5am (I can't find any trains at that time, let alone Advance tickets!) but I found others. You can find more if you specify via Adderley Park.
 

Eagle

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Does anyone have advice on how to get from New street to The NEC?... sorry forgot to mention it is on Saturday. :D

Get a train to International. A return shouldn't be more than a couple of quid. There should be 9 trains an hour between New Street and Inter; journey time will be 10 to 15 minutes (depending on whether it's a stopper or a fast train).
 

danfitz123

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Get a train to International. A return shouldn't be more than a couple of quid. There should be 9 trains an hour between New Street and Inter.

The advanced fares shown:

07:44 Liverpool South Parkway-Birmingham International = £32.80
18:38 BHI-LPY= £32.80
________________________

07:44 LPY-Birmingham New Street= £9.00
20:01 BHM-LPY= £9.00

Bit of a difference. I will probably get the 900 bus or something. Unless theres another way???? ;)
 

AlterEgo

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No, he means buy two separate tickets. One LPY-BHM and one BHM-BHI. It'll only be a couple of quid.
 

yorkie

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The advanced fares shown:

07:44 Liverpool South Parkway-Birmingham International = £32.80
18:38 BHI-LPY= £32.80
________________________

07:44 LPY-Birmingham New Street= £9.00
20:01 BHM-LPY= £9.00

Bit of a difference. I will probably get the 900 bus or something. Unless theres another way???? ;)
If you had followed my advice
... specify via Adderley Park.
You would only be paying £9 to BHI.



Would the BHM-BHI and BHI-BHM section need to be an advanced fare to be only a couple of quid?
There are no Advance fares between these stations, however there is a range of walk-on tickets, which could be considered 'advanced' or could be considered 'simple' (depending on whether you believe ATOC or not) with the following prices:

Route: Virgin Trains Only
FDR £6.20
SOR £4.80
SDR £4.10
FDS £3.50
CDR £2.80
SDS £2.30

Route: Any Permitted
FDR £8.70
SOR £6.40
SDR £5.80
FDS £4.70
CDR £4.10
SDS £3.10
EGF £2.00 *
EGS £2.00


* This is the £2.00 return ticket. Details below:

EGF - SUP OFFPK DAY R PWM
00000 - ANY PERMITTED

1 Adult @£ 2.00 = £ 2.00
__________
£ 2.00

Standard Class Return

Restriction : EF
EGS/EGF/EGP
Super off-peak day single/
return/group (Network West
Midlands Evening flat fare)

GENERAL

The Network West Midlands
Super Off-Peak fare is a flat
fare available from 1830 hours
within the Network_West
Midlands area (West Midlands
PTE) area at:
Adult single/return £2.00
Child single/return £1.00
Group £6.00.

IT IS AVAILABLE

Between any two stations in
the Network West Midlands area
but only for travel from 1830
Mondays to_Sundays.

Return journeys must be made
the same evening as the
outward journey.

Available to adults,
accompanied children and
groups of 4 (children will be
allowed as part of the group
as long as at least one_adult
is in the group). The_group
must travel together at all
times. This fare is not
available to children
travelling on their own.

PERIOD OF VALIDITY.

As per the date of travel on
the ticket.

AVAILABILTY

Network West Midlands Super
Off-Peak fares are only
available from staffed Ticket
Ofices within the Network West
Midlands area (and on the
Walsall Line up to Rugeley
Trent Valley). They cannot be
purchased on train unless the
passenger is travelling from
an unstaffed station.

The Network West Midlands
Super Off-Peak fares cannot be
purchased for travel on the
last running service of the
day.

No_Railcard discounts allowed.
Assuming you are departing before 1830, the £2.00 return fare would not be suitable for your needs.

Although ATOC claim that "The new names describe when you can use a ticket" the ticket named Super Off Peak Return in this instance isn't valid until 1830. Quite how they'd justify their claims in court, if anyone took it that far, I do not know.

I would therefore suggest the £2.80 CDR (Off Peak Day Return) routed Virgin Trains Only (there are 3 trains per hour).

Or, you could follow my advice and get Advance fares, specifying via Adderley Park, through to Birmingham International.

Or you could get a bus, but that would take a lot longer than the train!
 

Mojo

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As stated by yorkie, above, specify via Adderley Park on the booking engine. A huge number of £9 fares are available.

Do not get the bus, there is no need to. It costs more, takes longer, and is less frequent and comfortable than the train.
 

Paul Kelly

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I can see advances on Saturday 12th for £7.50 leaving LPY at 11:15 or 11:44 and arriving BHI at 13:19 or 13:39 respectively, and at the same price (£7.50) at the same minutes past each hour for well into the Saturday afternoon. Maybe a bit late though.

These are VWC & CONNECTIONS advances and they all involve a London Midland service from Liverpool South Parkway to Birmingham New Street followed by a Virgin service from New Street to Birmingham International. Quota for these fares seems to be blocked if you use a CrossCountry service for any part of the journey. I got them to show up by accessing the Northern booking engine using the URL http://tickets.northernrail.org/, and under "Additional Options" at the bottom of the screen selecting "Don't show journeys for CrossCountry".
 
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danfitz123

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If you had followed my advice

You would only be paying £9 to BHI.




There are no Advance fares between these stations, however there is a range of walk-on tickets, which could be considered 'advanced' or it could be considered 'simple' (depending on whether you believe ATOC or not) with the following prices:

Route: Virgin Trains Only
FDR £6.20
SOR £4.80
SDR £4.10
FDS £3.50
CDR £2.80
SDS £2.30

Route: Any Permitted
FDR £8.70
SOR £6.40
SDR £5.80
FDS £4.70
CDR £4.10
SDS £3.10
EGF £2.00 *
EGS £2.00


* This is the £2.00 return ticket. Details below:

Assuming you are departing before 1830, the £2.00 return fare would not be suitable for your needs.

Although ATOC claim that the new fare names "describe when you can travel" the ticket named Super Off Peak Return in this instance isn't valid until 1830. Quite how they'd justify their claims in court, if anyone took it that far, I do not know.

I would therefore suggest the £2.80 CDR (Off Peak Day Return) routed Virgin Trains Only (there are 3 trains per hour).

Or, you could follow my advice and get Advance fares, specifying via Adderley Park, through to Birmingham International.

Or you could get a bus, but that would take a lot longer than the train!

Your advice helped greatly, I will travel via Adderley Park. Thank you very much. Sorry if it seemed like I was being rude and ignoring you. I didnt see your post first time around as my computer decided to go ape :oops: . Thanks Everyone.
 

yorkie

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The existence of XC services on routes where the majority of the journey is not on XC, but where XC form a part of the journey, can cause availability of Advance fares to be severely reduced. It is therefore useful to use a booking engine that allows you to exclude the sardine trains provided by this company, so that you can both have a more comfortable journey avoiding them and also enjoy a much lower price, or specify a via point that XC services do not serve (but isn't a timing point either).

If you specify avoiding XC, then the fares will vary, from £7.50 to £13.50 (or more), but specifying via Adderley Park gives a more consistent price of £9.00 but the ticket will be routed "London Midland Only" so would not be valid on any other operator.

The operators serving the BHM - BHI route are LM, Virgin, ATW and XC.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Your advice helped greatly, I will travel via Adderley Park. Thank you very much. Sorry if it seemed like I was being rude and ignoring you. I didnt see your post first time around as my computer decided to go ape :oops: . Thanks Everyone.
No probs :)
 

All Line Rover

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If you had followed my advice - "specify via Adderly Park" - You would only be paying £9 to BHI.

This is an extremely good example of the ridiculous complexities of our fares system, as well as a major flaw in the booking engines. Any "average" passenger would assume that cheap Advance tickets are not available, so will pay extra for a "walk-up" ticket. It is absolutely infuriating! <( I wonder if the same would happen if the OP asked for the cheapest ticket from a ticket office? The origin and destination stations are the same, after all, so ATOC couldn't use the line of "staff are not required* to advise on split-ticketing."

*MUST NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES ;)

I wonder if it would be worth contacting Passenger Focus about this specific issue? From their point of view, correcting the issue would not be a bad thing, as capacity would be freed up on busy VT and XC services. (I assume.) They have recently been conducting research on the ease of use of online booking engines.
 

Paul Kelly

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If you really wanted to pick a ticketing anomaly to ask Passenger Focus about, this (via Adderley Park) is actually not a bad one I think, as it is not too difficult to understand: you need to travel on London Midland services throughout to get the cheap advance fare, but booking engines always put you on the fastest service. It also doesn't really reveal that many anomalies so shouldn't be too controversial. You might even get LM on your side.
 

All Line Rover

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If you really wanted to pick a ticketing anomaly to ask Passenger Focus about, this (via Adderley Park) is actually not a bad one I think, as it is not too difficult to understand: you need to travel on London Midland services throughout to get the cheap advance fare, but booking engines always put you on the fastest service. It also doesn't really reveal that many anomalies so shouldn't be too controversial. You might even get LM on your side.

I'm not so sure about that latter part. ;) Even if you travel on a fast VT service between BHM and BHI, you will still be travelling with LM between LPY and BHM. LM are sure to get more money through ORCATS from a £32.80 SOS (priced by LM) than a £9 "LM Only" Advance ticket.

I still agree that it is a good, fairly "risk-free" anomaly to choose, as it's not an anomaly that could be closed, and it is one that is obviously detrimental to the "average" passenger (whom Passenger Focus are supposed to "protect").
 

raildude

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I'm not so sure about that latter part. ;) Even if you travel on a fast VT service between BHM and BHI, you will still be travelling with LM between LPY and BHM. LM are sure to get more money through ORCATS from a £32.80 SOS (priced by LM) than a £9 "LM Only" Advance ticket.

I still agree that it is a good, fairly "risk-free" anomaly to choose, as it's not an anomaly that could be closed, and it is one that is obviously detrimental to the "average" passenger (whom Passenger Focus are supposed to "protect").

Surely the £9 ticket would be better for London Midland. The £32 ticket I think it is also valid on (depending on route):

Virgin Trains
Merseyrail via Chester
Arriva Trains
Transpennine Express
East Midlands Trains
Northern
CrossCountry
London Midland
Maybe even Chiltern

You have to share £32 between at least 8 different companies, (or in theory 9 if bought from a different operator than above because the train company selling it gets the a commission I am told).

London Midland would do well to still have more than £9 left after being split.
 

SS4

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Surely the £9 ticket would be better for London Midland. The £32 ticket I think it is also valid on (depending on route):

Virgin Trains
Merseyrail via Chester
Arriva Trains
Transpennine Express
East Midlands Trains
Northern
CrossCountry
London Midland
Maybe even Chiltern

You have to share £32 between at least 8 different companies, (or in theory 9 if bought from a different operator than above because the train company selling it gets the a commission I am told).

London Midland would do well to still have more than £9 left after being split.

I can't see it being an equal split though. LM are the main TOC (they price it) so they'll get a higher proportion than say Northern

Can't see Chiltern getting a bean though since you won't go down the Snow Hill lines.


While this isn't a bad idea to bring up at what point do we leave the passenger to work out his own prices?
 

yorkie

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Wouldn't broadcast that, will get removed from the fares database and corrected.
Agreed. Over-distance anomalies, where it is cheaper to go further and finish short, are the most likely to be "fixed" by TOCs, and if they intend you to go a different route but it happens to be valid via a route that has more expensive fares, then they can "fix" it by changing the Routeing Guide.

ATOC and some TOC pricing managers do read this forum!
 

Paul Kelly

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they can "fix" it by changing the Routeing Guide.
Yes fares are constrained by fares regulation so changes to the routeing guide are much more likely. The routeing guide is supposed to be protected by regulation too but the Department for Transport is not fulfilling its statutory duty in this regard. It really is a disgrace. Incidentally I just found out last night (through some web browsing) that the Man in Seat 61, Mark Smith, used to work for the DfT in the area of fares and ticketing. Very interesting.
 
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