Bimingham International??

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by danfitz123, 5 Nov 2011.

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  1. danfitz123

    danfitz123 Member

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    Hi,

    I have a bit of a silly sounding question. I am heading to the classic motor show next weekend. I have found that advanced fares are £18 from Liverpool South Parkway-Birmingham Stations. Is Birmingham International classed as a Birmingham station?(if you catch my drift) or will I have to buy a ticket with the destination-Birmingham International specifically. :|

    Thanks
     
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  3. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    No, it isn't.

    Are there not Advance fares to International as well?
     
  4. danfitz123

    danfitz123 Member

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    Yes..... at 5 in the morning :roll:
     
  5. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    You don't specify what day, so I did a search for Saturday, I could not find one at 5am (I can't find any trains at that time, let alone Advance tickets!) but I found others. You can find more if you specify via Adderley Park.
     
  6. Eagle

    Eagle Established Member

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    It's not, because it's not in Birmingham.

    It's in Solihull.
     
  7. danfitz123

    danfitz123 Member

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    Does anyone have advice on how to get from New street to The NEC without using the train?... sorry forgot to mention it is on Saturday. :D
     
  8. Eagle

    Eagle Established Member

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    Get a train to International. A return shouldn't be more than a couple of quid. There should be 9 trains an hour between New Street and Inter; journey time will be 10 to 15 minutes (depending on whether it's a stopper or a fast train).
     
  9. danfitz123

    danfitz123 Member

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    The advanced fares shown:

    07:44 Liverpool South Parkway-Birmingham International = £32.80
    18:38 BHI-LPY= £32.80
    ________________________

    07:44 LPY-Birmingham New Street= £9.00
    20:01 BHM-LPY= £9.00

    Bit of a difference. I will probably get the 900 bus or something. Unless theres another way???? ;)
     
  10. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    No, he means buy two separate tickets. One LPY-BHM and one BHM-BHI. It'll only be a couple of quid.
     
  11. Eagle

    Eagle Established Member

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    The train is cheaper than the 900, and four times as fast :lol:
     
  12. danfitz123

    danfitz123 Member

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    Would the BHM-BHI and BHI-BHM section need to be an advanced fare to be only a couple of quid?
     
  13. Eagle

    Eagle Established Member

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    There's no such thing as an advance fare on a BHM–BHI ticket.

    A standard day return is £2.80 (£1.85 with railcard)—whether you buy in advance or on the day.
     
  14. danfitz123

    danfitz123 Member

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    Thank you so much everyone. I will do just that and buy 2 tickets. The LPY-BHI fare must be a way national rail "rob" commuters. Bit silly like. Thanks again. ;)
     
  15. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    If you had followed my advice
    You would only be paying £9 to BHI.



    There are no Advance fares between these stations, however there is a range of walk-on tickets, which could be considered 'advanced' or could be considered 'simple' (depending on whether you believe ATOC or not) with the following prices:

    Route: Virgin Trains Only
    FDR £6.20
    SOR £4.80
    SDR £4.10
    FDS £3.50
    CDR £2.80
    SDS £2.30

    Route: Any Permitted
    FDR £8.70
    SOR £6.40
    SDR £5.80
    FDS £4.70
    CDR £4.10
    SDS £3.10
    EGF £2.00 *
    EGS £2.00


    * This is the £2.00 return ticket. Details below:

    Assuming you are departing before 1830, the £2.00 return fare would not be suitable for your needs.

    Although ATOC claim that "The new names describe when you can use a ticket" the ticket named Super Off Peak Return in this instance isn't valid until 1830. Quite how they'd justify their claims in court, if anyone took it that far, I do not know.

    I would therefore suggest the £2.80 CDR (Off Peak Day Return) routed Virgin Trains Only (there are 3 trains per hour).

    Or, you could follow my advice and get Advance fares, specifying via Adderley Park, through to Birmingham International.

    Or you could get a bus, but that would take a lot longer than the train!
     
  16. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    As stated by yorkie, above, specify via Adderley Park on the booking engine. A huge number of £9 fares are available.

    Do not get the bus, there is no need to. It costs more, takes longer, and is less frequent and comfortable than the train.
     
  17. Indigo2

    Indigo2 Established Member

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    I can see advances on Saturday 12th for £7.50 leaving LPY at 11:15 or 11:44 and arriving BHI at 13:19 or 13:39 respectively, and at the same price (£7.50) at the same minutes past each hour for well into the Saturday afternoon. Maybe a bit late though.

    These are VWC & CONNECTIONS advances and they all involve a London Midland service from Liverpool South Parkway to Birmingham New Street followed by a Virgin service from New Street to Birmingham International. Quota for these fares seems to be blocked if you use a CrossCountry service for any part of the journey. I got them to show up by accessing the Northern booking engine using the URL http://tickets.northernrail.org/, and under "Additional Options" at the bottom of the screen selecting "Don't show journeys for CrossCountry".
     
    Last edited: 5 Nov 2011
  18. danfitz123

    danfitz123 Member

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    Your advice helped greatly, I will travel via Adderley Park. Thank you very much. Sorry if it seemed like I was being rude and ignoring you. I didnt see your post first time around as my computer decided to go ape :oops: . Thanks Everyone.
     
  19. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    The existence of XC services on routes where the majority of the journey is not on XC, but where XC form a part of the journey, can cause availability of Advance fares to be severely reduced. It is therefore useful to use a booking engine that allows you to exclude the sardine trains provided by this company, so that you can both have a more comfortable journey avoiding them and also enjoy a much lower price, or specify a via point that XC services do not serve (but isn't a timing point either).

    If you specify avoiding XC, then the fares will vary, from £7.50 to £13.50 (or more), but specifying via Adderley Park gives a more consistent price of £9.00 but the ticket will be routed "London Midland Only" so would not be valid on any other operator.

    The operators serving the BHM - BHI route are LM, Virgin, ATW and XC.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    No probs :)
     
  20. All Line Rover

    All Line Rover Established Member

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    This is an extremely good example of the ridiculous complexities of our fares system, as well as a major flaw in the booking engines. Any "average" passenger would assume that cheap Advance tickets are not available, so will pay extra for a "walk-up" ticket. It is absolutely infuriating! <( I wonder if the same would happen if the OP asked for the cheapest ticket from a ticket office? The origin and destination stations are the same, after all, so ATOC couldn't use the line of "staff are not required* to advise on split-ticketing."

    *MUST NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES ;)

    I wonder if it would be worth contacting Passenger Focus about this specific issue? From their point of view, correcting the issue would not be a bad thing, as capacity would be freed up on busy VT and XC services. (I assume.) They have recently been conducting research on the ease of use of online booking engines.
     
  21. Indigo2

    Indigo2 Established Member

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    If you really wanted to pick a ticketing anomaly to ask Passenger Focus about, this (via Adderley Park) is actually not a bad one I think, as it is not too difficult to understand: you need to travel on London Midland services throughout to get the cheap advance fare, but booking engines always put you on the fastest service. It also doesn't really reveal that many anomalies so shouldn't be too controversial. You might even get LM on your side.
     
  22. All Line Rover

    All Line Rover Established Member

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    I'm not so sure about that latter part. ;) Even if you travel on a fast VT service between BHM and BHI, you will still be travelling with LM between LPY and BHM. LM are sure to get more money through ORCATS from a £32.80 SOS (priced by LM) than a £9 "LM Only" Advance ticket.

    I still agree that it is a good, fairly "risk-free" anomaly to choose, as it's not an anomaly that could be closed, and it is one that is obviously detrimental to the "average" passenger (whom Passenger Focus are supposed to "protect").
     
  23. raildude

    raildude Member

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    Surely the £9 ticket would be better for London Midland. The £32 ticket I think it is also valid on (depending on route):

    Virgin Trains
    Merseyrail via Chester
    Arriva Trains
    Transpennine Express
    East Midlands Trains
    Northern
    CrossCountry
    London Midland
    Maybe even Chiltern

    You have to share £32 between at least 8 different companies, (or in theory 9 if bought from a different operator than above because the train company selling it gets the a commission I am told).

    London Midland would do well to still have more than £9 left after being split.
     
  24. SS4

    SS4 Established Member

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    I can't see it being an equal split though. LM are the main TOC (they price it) so they'll get a higher proportion than say Northern

    Can't see Chiltern getting a bean though since you won't go down the Snow Hill lines.


    While this isn't a bad idea to bring up at what point do we leave the passenger to work out his own prices?
     
  25. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Smethwick Galton Bridge to Moor St?
     
  26. Nym

    Nym Established Member

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    Or you could get a Liverpool - Crewe return and a West Midlands Day Ranger...?
     
  27. raildude

    raildude Member

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    There is a cheaper fare for Liverpool-Crewe, private message me if needed.
     
    Last edited: 5 Nov 2011
  28. Nym

    Nym Established Member

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    Wouldn't broadcast that, will get removed from the fares database and corrected.
     
  29. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Agreed. Over-distance anomalies, where it is cheaper to go further and finish short, are the most likely to be "fixed" by TOCs, and if they intend you to go a different route but it happens to be valid via a route that has more expensive fares, then they can "fix" it by changing the Routeing Guide.

    ATOC and some TOC pricing managers do read this forum!
     
  30. Indigo2

    Indigo2 Established Member

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    Yes fares are constrained by fares regulation so changes to the routeing guide are much more likely. The routeing guide is supposed to be protected by regulation too but the Department for Transport is not fulfilling its statutory duty in this regard. It really is a disgrace. Incidentally I just found out last night (through some web browsing) that the Man in Seat 61, Mark Smith, used to work for the DfT in the area of fares and ticketing. Very interesting.
     
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