Birmingham New Street Historic Services

[Taunton]

As I said I was told that New Street to St Pancras was possible by a fellow schoolboy in the late 1950s and I said that I had no way of verifying that. As Birmingham- London tickets were valid via any authorised route the same boy told me that he had done New Street to Marylebone by changing between the two stations in Rugby..

Cecil J Allen, longstanding railway author, wrote (don't recall if he actually did it) that from Swansea a ticket to London was valid arriving at Liverpool Street, starting up the LNWR Central Wales line then changing at Stafford onto the old GNR branch, and at Peterborough onto the old GER route.

 

[Rob F]

If you read my post, you can see I am aware of the Midland's historical role at New Street. But even using the Wigston south curve (and thus avoiding reversal at Leicester), why travel - what, 35 or so miles north east, ie in the wrong direction, taking about 40 minutes or more, before turning southwards to London? It simply does not make sense, except for special circumstances like diversions. In that time, rival LNW services would have been around Kilsby and GWR somewhere near Banbury - both well en route to their respective London termini - with the Midland train still facing a 95-mile run to St Pancras.

I suppose there might have been at some time in the past the odd train St Pancras - Leicester which dropped carriages there which then worked to Nuneaton/Brum in order to provide through carriages to places like Narborough and Hinkley, but the continuation to Birmingham would have been for Leicester and other passengers, not those from London.

I agree. In fact, the line from Nuneaton to Wigston was LNWR, not Midland, so it would have to be a pretty circuitous route to stay on MR metals, via Derby perhaps? It just seems rather unlikely.

 

[Ken H]

Cecil J Allen, longstanding railway author, wrote (don't recall if he actually did it) that from Swansea a ticket to London was valid arriving at Liverpool Street, starting up the LNWR Central Wales line then changing at Stafford onto the old GNR branch, and at Peterborough onto the old GER route.

i once did London terminals - Nuneaton on a liverpool St - Watford jct stopper then intercity to Nuneaton
also did Paddington -banbury -cov-nuneaton
And St P - Leicester - Nuneaton
each an a day return. In BR days

 

[DelW]

I think it's unlikely that there was any sort of regular service from New Street to St Pancras by the late 1950s. At that time we travelled regularly between my parents' house in Birmingham and my grandparents' house near Harringay station in north London. Had there been such a service, it would have been much simpler to use that and then a suburban train from KX to Harringay with just a short walk from there, rather than going to Euston, Piccadilly Line tube to Finsbury Park, bus to Stroud Green then a longish walk from there. My father was something of an enthusiast who enjoyed plotting unusual routes by train, and had such a service existed at a suitable time, I'm sure we'd have used it at least once just for the experience, if not regularly. Of course that doesn't rule out a service operating at an impractical time, but I never heard any mention of such a possibility. Once the Euston electrification work began, we initially switched to travelling via Banbury, then my parents bought a car instead.

 

[Taunton]

Although Nuneaton to Leicester (Wigston) was, rather surprisingly, LNWR rather than Midland, the Midland had full running powers over it, and would be able to route readily along the line. Otherwise through Birmingham-Leicester services would not have been practical. The LNWR had in return running powers into the Midland station at Leicester.

Although pre-1923 the Midland may not have made much of a play for an express passenger service between the two cities, they certainly did for freight; the Midland had extensive freight services from London (particularly the docks, the key reason they absorbed the LT&S) to Birmingham, and also London to Bristol went this way, along with all the various intermediate points, Midland all the way. This was commonly a reason for what appear to be odd branch lines into competing territory. The LNWR would have played for London to Leicester freight via Nuneaton as well.

A reprisal for the LNWR having got Nuneaton to Leicester was the Midland getting Northampton to Bedford, with no LNWR running powers. If these had been granted the LNWR would likely have run a service Birmingham-Rugby-Northampton-Bedford-Cambridge.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I agree. In fact, the line from Nuneaton to Wigston was LNWR, not Midland, ...

Well, good grief - so it was. I had always assumed, since Nuneaton Abbey Street was MR, that it was MR to Wigston. (And I remember seeing ex-MR 2F 0-6-0s at Nuneaton to boot - engines that were 'fivers' - very rare by 1960-61 darn sarf!)
It also made me wonder how often I'd been on the line, and forced me to realise that it was probably only once or twice, and one of those instances was December 71, and certainly in the dark!

... so it would have to be a pretty circuitous route to stay on MR metals, via Derby perhaps? It just seems rather unlikely.

Via Derby, ha ha! Ironic when you consider the MR (or was it the LMS?) closed its original route Derby to London via Hampden-in-Arden and the LNW after the expense of building Wigston to Rugby, and then Wigston to Hitchen.

 

[Rob F]

Well, good grief - so it was. I had always assumed, since Nuneaton Abbey Street was MR, that it was MR to Wigston. (And I remember seeing ex-MR 2F 0-6-0s at Nuneaton to boot - engines that were 'fivers' - very rare by 1960-61 darn sarf!)
It also made me wonder how often I'd been on the line, and forced me to realise that it was probably only once or twice, and one of those instances was December 71, and certainly in the dark!



Via Derby, ha ha! Ironic when you consider the MR (or was it the LMS?) closed its original route Derby to London via Hampden-in-Arden and the LNW after the expense of building Wigston to Rugby, and then Wigston to Hitchen.

The MR's original route to London was via Leicester and Rugby to Euston, using the closed line through Broughton Astley.

 

[Sniffingmoose]

I remember the daily 11:00 to Inverness, the Clansman. It was a great train.
Also caught the 06:00 to Harwich once. Class 31 hauled. It was advertised with connections via Hook of Holland to Amsterdam
Don’t forget the DMU services to Norwich and I think summer Saturdays there was a Walsall to Great Yarmouth via Birmingham. Loco hauled 2x class 25.
Caught a Cleethorpes train once in the mid 1980s as far as Market Raisen. It was a 150 sprinter.
Also the strange Paddington to Paddington. Out via Banbury return via Worcester. The destination was advertised as Charlbury on the Cotswold line.
Trains from Lichfield went though to Kidderminster, Worcester and Hereford before the Cross City line south was thought of.

 

[Pigeon]

Also the strange Paddington to Paddington. Out via Banbury return via Worcester. The destination was advertised as Charlbury on the Cotswold line.

And the other way round. Used to go through Droitwich about lunchtime; I both saw it and caught it on many occasions. Most unusual being able to go from Worcester to Droitwich in a Mk 1.

 

[Ken H]

I remember the daily 11:00 to Inverness, the Clansman. It was a great train.
Also caught the 06:00 to Harwich once. Class 31 hauled. It was advertised with connections via Hook of Holland to Amsterdam
Don’t forget the DMU services to Norwich and I think summer Saturdays there was a Walsall to Great Yarmouth via Birmingham. Loco hauled 2x class 25.
Caught a Cleethorpes train once in the mid 1980s as far as Market Raisen. It was a 150 sprinter.
Also the strange Paddington to Paddington. Out via Banbury return via Worcester. The destination was advertised as Charlbury on the Cotswold line.
Trains from Lichfield went though to Kidderminster, Worcester and Hereford before the Cross City line south was thought of.

on summer trains, I got a Nuneaton-skeggy train. 2xcl20's and a load of Mk 1's. Must have been about 1986. Think it did Leicester, Nottingham, Sleaford, Skeggy.

 

[Wirewiper]

Before the First World War there was a LNWR service that operated from Wolverhampton, Birmingham New Street and Coventry then non stop to London Broad Street. The train was aimed very much at business travellers heading for the City of London and had on onboard typist.

 

[crosscity]

Also caught the 06:00 to Harwich once. Class 31 hauled. It was advertised with connections via Hook of Holland to Amsterdam

Later, after the Sprinters were introduced on BR Regional Railways, there was still a through train to Harwich to connect with the night ferry to the Hook, leaving New St in the afternoon. I caught it once. I believe the train was named 'The Loreley' or something similar. Perhaps the only named train operated by a Sprinter.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Later, after the Sprinters were introduced on BR Regional Railways, there was still a through train to Harwich to connect with the night ferry to the Hook, leaving New St in the afternoon. I caught it once. I believe the train was named 'The Loreley' or something similar. Perhaps the only named train operated by a Sprinter.

Off thread, but there were many named trains on ScotRail operated by sprinters when they were first introduced.

 

[crosscity]

Later, after the Sprinters were introduced on BR Regional Railways, there was still a through train to Harwich to connect with the night ferry to the Hook, leaving New St in the afternoon. I caught it once. I believe the train was named 'The Loreley' or something similar. Perhaps the only named train operated by a Sprinter.

Off thread, but there were many named trains on ScotRail operated by sprinters when they were first introduced.

I wasn't aware of that as I didn't get to Scotland around that time. Perhaps there were fewer named trains operated by Sprinters in England.

 

[70014IronDuke]

The MR's original route to London was via Leicester and Rugby to Euston, using the closed line through Broughton Astley.

Surely the first route to London from Derby was via Burton, Whiteacre? and Hampton-in-Arden. This was before the Liecester-Rugby route was opened. But I don't know if it was already Midland Railway - it might have preceeded the formation of the MR.

 

[DavidGrain]

Surely the first route to London from Derby was via Burton, Whiteacre? and Hampton-in-Arden. This was before the Liecester-Rugby route was opened. But I don't know if it was already Midland Railway - it might have preceeded the formation of the MR.

I agree. Hampton (Midland) station was opened by the Birmingham & Derby Junction Railway in August 1839 to make a junction with the London & Birmingham Railway so was the Midland's first route to London