Birmingham Stations Divert Knowledge

[Aictos]

This is a question concerning London North Western, West Midlands Trains, Advanti West Coast, Cross Country and Chiltern Railways but...

What routes do they currently sign for diversionary purposes only and what depots sign these routes as well as what staff sign them too?

To clarify I am discussing all three of Birmingham’s stations so New Street, Moor Street and Snow Hill using a typical disruption meaning the booked routes or part of the booked routes can’t be used.

For example to start, if there is a issue at Five Ways could XC just use the Camp Hill lines to access New Street or does it vary between depots on if their route knowledge covers the route? Bearing in mind I’ve no idea if the Camp Hill route is covered by Bristol and Derby etc...

I’m curious to find out, over to those with the Knowledge....

 

[lammergeier]

Most XC drivers and guards who go into New St also sign the relevant diversions so depending on the approach this would be the Camp Hill lines, Kidderminster/Smethwick, Grand Junction lines to Aston & Soho, Wolves - New St via Bescot and pretty much every other possible route in the area. I think the only route not signed is the Sutton Park line.

 

[Sweetjesus]

I don't think any of drivers using Moor St/Snow Hill station also sign for New St and vice versa, so if a disruption occurs at one of either station, the other cannot be used for diversionary purpose instead.

To be honest, it's probably better it stays that way.

 

[158747]

Camp Hill is a normal route for XC. The services between New Street and Bristol that start at Manchester Piccadilly go this way. I don’t know if they all do but every time I’ve travelled from Birmingham to Bristol on a service that has come from Manchester they have taken this route. They only do this route southbound though, as all the Bristol to Manchester trains enter New Street via Five Ways.

 

[Whistler40145]

At one time, the Camp Hill route was a diversionary route with the majority of services routed via Five Ways

 

[JN114]

Chiltern don’t have any diversionary route knowledge at the Birmingham end of the network that I am aware of...

 

[Mojo]

I’ve seen Chiltern Railways trains divert to New St before, not within the past ten years mind...

 

[PHILIPE]

I don't think any of drivers using Moor St/Snow Hill station also sign for New St and vice versa, so if a disruption occurs at one of either station, the other cannot be used for diversionary purpose instead.

To be honest, it's probably better it stays that way.

Worcester work both

 

[lammergeier]

Camp Hill is a normal route for XC. The services between New Street and Bristol that start at Manchester Piccadilly go this way. I don’t know if they all do but every time I’ve travelled from Birmingham to Bristol on a service that has come from Manchester they have taken this route. They only do this route southbound though, as all the Bristol to Manchester trains enter New Street via Five Ways.

Plenty of Bristol-Manchester Northbound trains also use Camp Hill.

 

[O L Leigh]

Services between the south-west and north-west use the Camp Hill line while those between the south-west and north-east go by Selly Oak to avoid the need to reverse at New Street. However, it is a normal diversion for all XC south-west/Wales services. XC do not sign Snow Hill/Moor Street.

 

[TiedUpInNotts]

West Mids New Street crews do not sign diversions via Heath Town, Portobello and so on. Other depots do sign them though. I'm not sure of the reasons for this but it makes for very little flexibility when there is disruption.

Manys the time I've been turfed off at Wolverhampton so the train can run empty via Heath Town because the guard doesn't sign the diversion but the driver (presumably from another depot) does. It was a guard who told me about this. Maybe someone here can shed light on the thinking behind it because its always stumped me.

 

[The_gardener]

Services between the south-west and north-west use the Camp Hill line while those between the south-west and north-east go by Selly Oak to avoid the need to reverse at New Street. However, it is a normal diversion for all XC south-west/Wales services. XC do not sign Snow Hill/Moor Street.

It was several years ago but I was on a Sunday Cardiff Nottingham train that was diverted via Kidderminster due to engineering works. It was then diverted to Snow Hill where it terminated due to a points failure at Smethwick.

 

[FlashingYellows]

Does anyone know what Shrewsbury drivers sign around Birmingham?

 

[PHILIPE]

Does anyone know what Shrewsbury drivers sign around Birmingham?

TFW or WMT ?

 

[FlashingYellows]

TFW or WMT ?

Oh yeah...WMT

 

[40129]

Camp Hill is a normal route for XC both to and from New Street. IIRC the Sectional Appendix instructs drivers who are booked to run via the Cross City route to accept the Camp Hill route without question (unless booked to call at University) and vice versa

 

[158747]

Plenty of Bristol-Manchester Northbound trains also use Camp Hill.

That’s interesting, I didn’t realise that as the only times I have travelled from Bristol to Birmingham on XC I have arrived at New Street via five ways.

 

[PHILIPE]

That’s interesting, I didn’t realise that as the only times I have travelled from Bristol to Birmingham on XC I have arrived at New Street via five ways.

1 per hour in each direction

 

[43055]

That’s interesting, I didn’t realise that as the only times I have travelled from Bristol to Birmingham on XC I have arrived at New Street via five ways.

It is mostly the afternoon services which go in via Camp Hill. In the morning there is 1 Manchester and 2 Glasgow services which go this way.

 

[PHILIPE]

It is mostly the afternoon services which go in via Camp Hill. In the morning there is 1 Manchester and 2 Glasgow services which go this way.

Have a look at RTT

 

[sw1ller]

This is a question concerning London North Western, West Midlands Trains, Advanti West Coast, Cross Country and Chiltern Railways but...

What routes do they currently sign for diversionary purposes only and what depots sign these routes as well as what staff sign them too?

To clarify I am discussing all three of Birmingham’s stations so New Street, Moor Street and Snow Hill using a typical disruption meaning the booked routes or part of the booked routes can’t be used.

For example to start, if there is a issue at Five Ways could XC just use the Camp Hill lines to access New Street or does it vary between depots on if their route knowledge covers the route? Bearing in mind I’ve no idea if the Camp Hill route is covered by Bristol and Derby etc...

I’m curious to find out, over to those with the Knowledge....

not interested in the TfW diversionary routes then?

 

[JN114]

not interested in the TfW diversionary routes then?

If they aren’t I am!

 

[Aictos]

not interested in the TfW diversionary routes then?

Yes of course, sorry I forgot they served Birmingham! A little oversight on my behalf.

 

[sw1ller]

Yes of course, sorry I forgot they served Birmingham! A little oversight on my behalf.

If they aren’t I am!

It’s not much to be fair. TfW sign Birmingham to wolves via bescot and Aston. Some of us sign perry Barr to Soho too. Chester and Shrewsbury drivers sign it, Chester Crewe and Shrewsbury guards sign it too. @craigybagel will know if Crewe and any other depots drivers and guards sign also.
Wolves to Crewe via Stafford is also a route we sign purely for diversionary purposes.

 

[craigybagel]

Does anyone know what Shrewsbury drivers sign around Birmingham?

Until recently WMT at Salop were in the same boat as many other depots at WMT/LNWR: as mentioned earlier, from Wolverhampton they could only go via the main Stour lines into Birmingham. From there they could go on to Walsall (and until recently Rugeley) via either Aston or Soho/Perry Barr. They have recently however learnt the missing link from Bescot through to Wolverhampton.

It’s not much to be fair. TfW sign Birmingham to wolves via bescot and Aston. Some of us sign perry Barr to Soho too. Chester and Shrewsbury drivers sign it, Chester Crewe and Shrewsbury guards sign it too. @craigybagel will know if Crewe and any other depots drivers and guards sign also.
Wolves to Crewe via Stafford is also a route we sign purely for diversionary purposes.

That's pretty much it. The ability to go around Bescot if required really comes down to luck if it's not been preplanned as only some at TfW sign it. Crewe guards sign it but the drivers don't. Machynlleth guards also work to Birmingham but don't sign any diversions. Perry Barr to Soho is a bit of a grey area - for the last few years new drivers and guards when they've been learning Bescot have only been learning via Aston and not that way, but those of us who already signed it were never told it had come off our cards.

Wolves - Stafford - Crewe is signed by one link of drivers at Chester and (on paper at least) all drivers at Crewe. It's signed by all guards at both of those depots. However, at the moment all booked services are worked by Chester drivers and Crewe guards, and whilst new Chester guards are still learning it for diversion/cross depot coverage, new drivers at Crewe haven't been learning it for a while and there's talk it'll come off the cards. At the moment, outside of weekends all services booked via Stafford also run via Bescot so Crewe drivers can't work them and stay competent that way.

 

[godfreycomplex]

For Avanti (I think, may be inaccurate)
All crew who sign the West Midlands (I think that’s everyone except for Holyhead, Glasgow & Edinburgh) sign Stafford to Rugby via Bescot/Stour Valley, via Wolverhampton/Heath Town, via New Street/Grand Junction (via Perry Barr - Soho, not sure if they do Duddeston).
Wolverhampton crew do considerably more than that, to Central Rivers via Water Orton/Lichfield (including Birmingham to Nuneaton & Kingsbury - Whitacre) and possibly via Walsall to Rugeley as well

 

[43055]

Have a look at RTT

Yes I have. I was only talking about northbound services (probably should of made that clearer). Southbound it is mostly all the Manchester - Bristol services every hour.