Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[snowball]

Did I use the wrong terminology or is there a difference between line speed and permissible speed?

I'm sure others will correct me but I think it's been said on here that the term "line speed" has been dropped because all speed limits are now supposed to be signed explicitly, whereas previously it was assumed that after a restriction the limit reverted to the line speed.

 

[Trackman]

Does seem daft come to think of it.. This pic I took today appears to show 5 sets of doors in the second section..?

Maybe they got a deal from SafeStyle?

2 sets of doors next to each other, I'm guessing there some on the opposite side too. Doesn't make sense at all , can't see it for maintenance and most modern glass for this kind of structure is self cleaning unless it's some sort of stop gap whilst waiting for glass panels.
A viewing platform would be great! Not going to happen with AC wires underneath though.
Oh, thanks for the pics too

 

[SodTheDrummer]

2 sets of doors next to each other, I'm guessing there some on the opposite side too. Doesn't make sense at all , can't see it for maintenance and most modern glass for this kind of structure is self cleaning unless it's some sort of stop gap whilst waiting for glass panels.
A viewing platform would be great! Not going to happen with AC wires underneath though.
Oh, thanks for the pics too

 

[PDG1949]

The bridge at St Helens Central also gets treacherous in the wet. I wished they had put some form of transparent roof over it instead of just raising the parapets for the electrical clearances

As a St Helens local I agree totally; build the flying saucer and then run out of money for the essentials

PS Coffee shop going at Central if WHS are interested (having said that they pulled their retail newsagent outlet out of the town several years ago..)

I'm getting off topic - maybe this should be in another forum..

 

[42626]

Found these documents
https://www.planningpa.bolton.gov.uk/online-applications-17/files/B2D2C947232397FFD69FE87548E44D4E/pdf/93326_14--465355.pdf and
https://www.planningpa.bolton.gov.uk/online-applications-17/files/F5178807A467873144386CF71E6A4A71/pdf/93326_14--465357.pdf

on Bolton planning site which indicates all the glazed parts will be internal opening and maintenance walkways outside

(along with some comedy drawings of people inside who appear to be from 1954, but they haven't drawn in the homeless chap though who will no doubt take up residence as soon as it opens...:roll: )

The links don't work as the council don't allow direct linking to the files (there's a session ID in the links) but the application page is https://www.planningpa.bolton.gov.u...ils.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=DCAPR_86780 and you can click on the drawings from there.

The drawings show an external maintenance walkway on the north side and a handrail fitted immediately outside the doors on the south side. The design and access statement makes little mention of this maintenance design except for:

The new footbridge has been redesigned for a number of reasons:
...
choice of materials, longevity of material performance, requirements for minimising maintenance (to meet Network Rail standards) and associated access provision to undertake cleaning and maintenance

 

[wrinkley]

800 odd tones of something being delivered to Burnden Jc tonight from Crewe.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U78343/2017/04/24/advanced

The two 800 tonne trains to Burnden Junction on 24th and 25th are shown as 1200 tonnes when leaving Bolton for Crewe. All the sleepers from the down loop have disappeared since the weekend, the only things left are the chairs that the rails sat in. Mystery solved?

Photos of the down loop sent to LDECRexile, probable won't get posted until Monday.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

I'm sure others will correct me but I think it's been said on here that the term "line speed" has been dropped because all speed limits are now supposed to be signed explicitly, whereas previously it was assumed that after a restriction the limit reverted to the line speed.

Correct on all counts.

 

[SodTheDrummer]

The links don't work as the council don't allow direct linking to the files (there's a session ID in the links) but the application page is https://www.planningpa.bolton.gov.u...ils.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=DCAPR_86780 and you can click on the drawings from there.

Dang, sorry about that.

 

[LDECRexile]

The two 800 tonne trains to Burnden Junction on 24th and 25th are shown as 1200 tonnes when leaving Bolton for Crewe. All the sleepers from the down loop have disappeared since the weekend, the only things left are the chairs that the rails sat in. Mystery solved?

Photos of the down loop sent to LDECRexile, probable won't get posted until Monday.

Awoke early so I've added this set to Wrinkley's album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157654034635234

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

Thank you Wrinkley.

Back Sunday evening. Have fun, Dave

 

[ALX400]

Just been chatting to an Orangeman at Blackrod there's a large work team there tonight completing Troughing work for new signalling cables, didn't notice anything else out the ordinary, nipped to Adlington aswell and there is construction of bases on the platform underway.

 

[SodTheDrummer]

Taken yesterday near the skate park in Bolton - materials for a new signal base possibly?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Not much new to report on today, bar electric working through the disused platforms at Salford Central.
More piling around Salford Crescent and in the Chorley cutting.
The main activity seems to be resignalling at the moment.
Given it is now May, it still seems a big ask to have the power on in 30 weeks.

[off-topic, sorry!]
Posh saloon Caroline has just left Preston northbound pushed by 37 401, so there must be something for NR to inspect today.
[Derby RTC-Inverness I see from RTT. What a nice trip on a fine spring day]
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U21741/2017/05/02/advanced

 

[Whistler40145]

Witnessed many piles especially around Singleton and Kirkham and more between Salwick and near to Preston, progress.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

[Elecman]

It makes sense to build the new signalling cablevroutes before piling foundations, as others have said once they have a decent run of foundations the main steel work goes up at a fair old pace along with the necessary attachments

 

[Whistler40145]

The necessary groundwork has been completed in several locations between Kirkham & Wesham towards Preston in readiness for the installation of Signal cabinets, so obviously this would indicate that the current PN Signals are also being replaced no doubt with more modern equipment.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's beginning to look like a comprehensive resignalling and remodelling, rather than just moving the odd signal for sighting purposes and line speed increases.
That is necessary on the Fylde line to get rid of the ancient kit, but I'm not so sure about Salford-Euxton which was fairly modern already and worked from Manchester or Preston PSBs.
There was very little change on the Chat Moss and Wigan routes aside from the Huyton area (and more to come), and now of course around Salford.

 

[Whistler40145]

It's a complete mixture of signals on the North Fylde Line, so complete replacement would be the only option, no doubt modern LED technology is to be used?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's a complete mixture of signals on the North Fylde Line, so complete replacement would be the only option, no doubt modern LED technology is to be used?

Hopefully it will have all the bells and whistles which go with ROC operation these days - train management, automatic route setting and all that.
Maybe even bi-di working.

 

[TBSchenker]

Not sure any ROCs have got train management installed - Network Rail have backed away from the futuristic Traffic Management System. A modern ARS is probably all that will feature. And if the new Ordsall Lane signalling is anything to go about expect it not to be fit for purpose!

I'm disappointed Bi-directional signalling doesn't feature as much as it does in recent resignalling projects, apart from Kirkham (maybe), and possibly on the approach to Blackpool I'm not expecting the Fylde line to have any significant bi-directional signalling.

Looking at the new signals for the Chorley line, again no bi-directional signalling is featuring, apart from Bolton one presumes. Even the signals look to be single headed LED types so 3-aspect only.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Looking at the new signals for the Chorley line, again no bi-directional signalling is featuring, apart from Bolton one presumes. Even the signals look to be single headed LED types so 3-aspect only.

The only signal moves are a result of the new (100mph) MU differential. Four-aspect signalling is not required. Bi-di is only useful if you have crossovers dotted along the route, all of which cost money to install and maintain. The rest of the signals are being upgraded to LED to provide consistency and reduce maintenance costs. Bolton will not be fully bi-di.

 

[Whistler40145]

Thanks for the update.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

[edwin_m]

The only signal moves are a result of the new (100mph) MU differential. Four-aspect signalling is not required. Bi-di is only useful if you have crossovers dotted along the route, all of which cost money to install and maintain. The rest of the signals are being upgraded to LED to provide consistency and reduce maintenance costs. Bolton will not be fully bi-di.

Manchester-Preston has two diversionary routes so the benefit of bi-di is less significant than on say the northern ECML.

 

[QueensCurve]

Not much new to report on today, bar electric working through the disused platforms at Salford Central.http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U21741/2017/05/02/advanced

What route would they be travelling on?

 

[QueensCurve]

Bi-di is only useful if you have crossovers dotted along the route, all of which cost money to install and maintain.

Has anyone done a rigorous analysis of the costs of the whole life costs of Xovers and bidi versus the disruption averted over the life of the infranstructure?

 

[snowball]

What route would they be travelling on?

Liverpool to Manchester Victoria stoppers via Chat Moss. Now routed through the once-and-future platforms at Salford Central instead of passing immediately south of the station.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Manchester-Preston has two diversionary routes so the benefit of bi-di is less significant than on say the northern ECML.

You could argue 3 - not all electrified.
1) via Chat Moss
2) via Wigan and Lostock Jct
3) via Wigan and Atherton

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Has anyone done a rigorous analysis of the costs of the whole life costs of Xovers and bidi versus the disruption averted over the life of the infranstructure?

Often, but bi-di is not a universal panacea for disruption as "undoing" the wrong road operation can be nearly as disruptive (vide platforms 13 and 14 at Piccadilly).

One crossover and the related signalling equipment (installed) would be the thick end of £3m (as part of a wider scheme) and you need four - the wrong direction signals would be over £300k each (as part of a wider scheme) and it all has a life of about 30 years during which each part will be inspected and tested 30 times!

 

[DarloRich]

Prescisely what I thought.

The north side does appear to have an external gantry. Also needs a good system to ensure the cleaners cannot forget to lock the doors afterwards.

It does appear, however, that the requirements of the CDM regulations pass many posters by

2 sets of doors next to each other, I'm guessing there some on the opposite side too. Doesn't make sense at all , can't see it for maintenance and most modern glass for this kind of structure is self cleaning unless it's some sort of stop gap whilst waiting for glass panels.
A viewing platform would be great! Not going to happen with AC wires underneath though.
Oh, thanks for the pics too

 

[II]

If anyone has any specific questions about the new signalling and track layouts between Preston and Blackpool I can try to answer them as I have access to the Signalling Scheme Plans for the works.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If anyone has any specific questions about the new signalling and track layouts between Preston and Blackpool I can try to answer them as I have access to the Signalling Scheme Plans for the works.

Well, about the only question is if the new 3-platform layout at Kirkham is going to be bi-directional?