• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

Status
Not open for further replies.

VTPreston_Tez

Member
Joined
26 Jan 2012
Messages
1,159
Location
Preston
If Blackpool South does get electrified, and personally I don't see why not, it could be a good line to test the new "Tram Power" low speed cheap-o 25kV limited to 60mph electrification gantries, since it wouldn't need any more feeder stations of any kind on it, and has a nice short operational profile so overnight works and weekend possessions (in winter) aren't much of an issue.

I think with Blackpool South that if up to Colne is electrified we could see 323s or a similar unit on that line, one that has room for luggage for pax off Squires Gate.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Joseph_Locke

Established Member
Joined
14 Apr 2012
Messages
1,878
Location
Within earshot of trains passing the one and half
I keep hearing rumors of Farnworth tunnels being demolished entirely, is there any truth? I guess it could be done with only the A666 being above.

I guess this follows the secondary rumor of the Bolton to Manchester line being closed for 4 or 5 months next year?

No.

And the secondary rumour isn't a rumour either. The track in both single bores is being lowered to allow electrification of the route. I understand one line will be slb track and the other traditionally ballasted.
 

Durham Ox

Member
Joined
14 Jul 2012
Messages
11
Location
Wrong side of the Pennines
I keep hearing rumors of Farnworth tunnels being demolished entirely, is there any truth? I guess it could be done with only the A666 being above.

I guess this follows the secondary rumor of the Bolton to Manchester line being closed for 4 or 5 months next year?

Demolition of the tunnels was considered as one of the options in the early stages and discounted due to the A666 passing over and the requirement for new bridges to carry that.
The most likely option is that the inverts will be lowered to achieve the necessary clearances with the sidewalls being underpinned before slab track is installed. This will require a blockade, probably in the region of 12 weeks, but this option is still very much in the planning stage at the moment.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

Veteran Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
32,269
Location
A semi-rural part of north-west England
I think with Blackpool South that if up to Colne is electrified we could see 323s or a similar unit on that line, one that has room for luggage for pax off Squires Gate.

Even if approval was granted for electrification of the route that you describe, I feel that the 323 fleet is already fully committed in their existing area, unless you refer to the time when replacement units will allow this to happen, with the cascades allowing this. When you refer to the luggage room, how much luggage space do you feel would be a requirement on the Colne to Blackpool South route.
 

Whistler40145

Established Member
Joined
30 Apr 2010
Messages
5,911
Location
Lancashire
During the Farnworth Tunnel blockade, why not run a limited Bolton to Manchester service via Wigan?

Alternately, provide an RRP from Bolton to Atherton?

Also, what major works are proposed for Blackpool North to Preston?
 

GRALISTAIR

Established Member
Joined
11 Apr 2012
Messages
7,806
Location
Dalton GA USA & Preston Lancs
During the Farnworth Tunnel blockade, why not run a limited Bolton to Manchester service via Wigan?

Alternately, provide an RRP from Bolton to Atherton?

Also, what major works are proposed for Blackpool North to Preston?[/QUOTE]

My understanding is this is going to happen before Euxton Jct - Manchester. IIRC, there are no major problems on this route. It has been 16 years since I rode it though. IIRC no tunnels Preston-Kirkham - but is there one near Poulton-le-Fylde?
 

MidnightFlyer

Veteran Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
12,857
Nope, there's a motorway bridge just south of there but that's the closest to a tunnel of any description.

I wonder if the Fast and Slow set up will survive at Kirkham? Very generally speaking, electrification does tend to result in some form of track rationalisation.

(For anyone wondering, it's two track to Kirkham ex-Preston, where a pair of Fasts diverge to the north of the line east of the station, and progress directly onto the North line. The Slows have an island platform (Kirkham & Wesham station), before the line diverges for North / South. An island was meant to be built on the Fast lines, however WW2 saw it never constructed.)
 

Whistler40145

Established Member
Joined
30 Apr 2010
Messages
5,911
Location
Lancashire
AFAIK trains use the Fast line towards Preston at Kirkham, but unsure in the other direction.

I cannot see any reason why the Fast lines cannot be removed.
 

GRALISTAIR

Established Member
Joined
11 Apr 2012
Messages
7,806
Location
Dalton GA USA & Preston Lancs
Nope, there's a motorway bridge just south of there but that's the closest to a tunnel of any description.
I wonder if the Fast and Slow set up will survive at Kirkham? Very generally speaking, electrification does tend to result in some form of track rationalisation.

(For anyone wondering, it's two track to Kirkham ex-Preston, where a pair of Fasts diverge to the north of the line east of the station, and progress directly onto the North line. The Slows have an island platform (Kirkham & Wesham station), before the line diverges for North / South. An island was meant to be built on the Fast lines, however WW2 saw it never constructed.)

Yes and when the M55 (and other )was built , the bridges were done with adequate clearance.

The line between Preston and Salwick I think was dequadrified in the 1980s/1990s for Tom Benson Way road to be built.
 
Last edited:

Xenophon PCDGS

Veteran Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
32,269
Location
A semi-rural part of north-west England
Going back to the Atherton line with regard the possible use of this line in the period of the Bolton service problems, allowing for all technically related matters, could I ask what would be the maximum allowable tph on the section from Crow Nest Junction to Salford Crescent.
 

WatcherZero

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2010
Messages
10,272
Going back to the Atherton line with regard the possible use of this line in the period of the Bolton service problems, allowing for all technically related matters, could I ask what would be the maximum allowable tph on the section from Crow Nest Junction to Salford Crescent.

With the current headways you can only get 4-5 trains per hour on the Atherton line. The main culprit is the distance between signals are very long and you need to allow the train in front to exit the stretch before the next one can enter.
 

Whistler40145

Established Member
Joined
30 Apr 2010
Messages
5,911
Location
Lancashire
Does anyone know if the clearances are sufficient with the following bridges:-

Breck Road Poulton
Tithbarn Street Poulton
Plymouth Road Layton

Also, are there any intentions of re-signalling the North Fylde line, closing all manned Signal Boxes & transferring control to Preston PSB?
 

Durham Ox

Member
Joined
14 Jul 2012
Messages
11
Location
Wrong side of the Pennines
Does anyone know if the clearances are sufficient with the following bridges:-

Breck Road Poulton
Tithbarn Street Poulton
Plymouth Road Layton

Also, are there any intentions of re-signalling the North Fylde line, closing all manned Signal Boxes & transferring control to Preston PSB?

Tithebarn St is being reconstructed to achieve the required clearances.
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,555
Location
Mold, Clwyd
Also, are there any intentions of re-signalling the North Fylde line, closing all manned Signal Boxes & transferring control to Preston PSB?

In a word, yes, but control will go to Manchester East (Ashburys).
Good description in this week's Rail (about NW electrification generally).
The odd thing about TP electrification plans is the vagueness about the work in Yorkshire compared to that in Lancs.
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,555
Location
Mold, Clwyd
Is Manchester East the same as the WCML Control Centre in Birmingham?

No, they are different Regional Control Centres.
The West Midlands Control Centre is at Saltley (originally built for the WCML but not used for that purpose).
Control for all WM lines except the WCML will transfer to Saltley, and they have already done a large chunk.
For now, I think the WCML in the Midlands will stay as it is, centred on Rugby.

The Ashburys control centre ("Manchester East") is the North West version of Saltley.
But they have only just started to transfer lines to it as they are resignalled (Stalybridge was the first I think).
It will be a long process to get all the NW lines transferred, but it looks like the Fylde line will be an early one.
It also means the existing PSBs will not be altered/extended.
 

Geeves

Established Member
Joined
6 Jan 2009
Messages
1,911
Location
Rochdale
LNW-GW. Im not 100% but I believe "Manchester East" is mearly a signaling panel(s) and is actually located inside "Manchester South SCC" at Stockport. This will indeed control Stalybridge and I believe it already has Glossop in its sights, but this will still need to be transfered along with everything else

I think the confusion is that the Ashbury's based NW Regional Operating Centre will eventually be here but as yet the foundations have not even been started. I Believe the first major PSB to go in will be Piccadilly followed by Manchester North SCC and then Manchester South with the east panel... I had read that Preston will remain but Who knows. Flyde will definately go into Preston PSB before Manchester anyway.


one day!
 
Last edited:

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,555
Location
Mold, Clwyd
LNW-GW. Im not 100% but I believe "Manchester East" is mearly a signaling panel(s) and is actually located inside "Manchester South SCC" at Stockport. This will indeed control Stalybridge and I believe it already has Glossop in its sights, but this will still need to be transfered along with everything else

I think the confusion is that the Ashbury's based NW Regional Operating Centre will eventually be here but as yet the foundations have not even been started. I Believe the first major PSB to go in will be Piccadilly followed by Manchester North SCC and then Manchester South with the east panel... I had read that Preston will remain but Who knows. Flyde will definately go into Preston PSB before Manchester anyway.
one day!

Thanks for the clarification. It's hard keeping up these days!
There is so much rapid resignalling going on after seemingly decades of nothing much happening.
 

John55

Member
Joined
24 Jun 2011
Messages
800
Location
South East
Thanks for the clarification. It's hard keeping up these days!
There is so much rapid resignalling going on after seemingly decades of nothing much happening.

There is a lot of "re-control" underway as well which is the existing signalling remaining in place but the control of this signalling moving to an alternative location.
 

Joseph_Locke

Established Member
Joined
14 Apr 2012
Messages
1,878
Location
Within earshot of trains passing the one and half
LNW-GW. Im not 100% but I believe "Manchester East" is mearly a signaling panel(s) and is actually located inside "Manchester South SCC" at Stockport. This will indeed control Stalybridge and I believe it already has Glossop in its sights, but this will still need to be transfered along with everything else

I think the confusion is that the Ashbury's based NW Regional Operating Centre will eventually be here but as yet the foundations have not even been started. I Believe the first major PSB to go in will be Piccadilly followed by Manchester North SCC and then Manchester South with the east panel... I had read that Preston will remain but Who knows. Flyde will definately go into Preston PSB before Manchester anyway.

The first workstation into the LNW (N) Control Centre (to give its correct title) will be the one for Huyton in 2014.

<pause for pig flypast>

Preston will follow in 2017. I don't know about Piccadilly or Man North, but I'll find out.
 

Durham Ox

Member
Joined
14 Jul 2012
Messages
11
Location
Wrong side of the Pennines
LNW-GW. Im not 100% but I believe "Manchester East" is mearly a signaling panel(s) and is actually located inside "Manchester South SCC" at Stockport. This will indeed control Stalybridge and I believe it already has Glossop in its sights, but this will still need to be transfered along with everything else

I think the confusion is that the Ashbury's based NW Regional Operating Centre will eventually be here but as yet the foundations have not even been started. I Believe the first major PSB to go in will be Piccadilly followed by Manchester North SCC and then Manchester South with the east panel... I had read that Preston will remain but Who knows. Flyde will definately go into Preston PSB before Manchester anyway.


one day!

Site works have commenced on the Manchester Regional Operating Centre (MROC) at Ashburys although there are archeological works underway which need to be completed before any construction works can commence. Currently only site clearance to enable the archeological investigations has taken place but you should see the main building works commence in the next few weeks.
 

Toots

Member
Joined
24 Oct 2009
Messages
275
... I had read that Preston will remain but Who knows. Flyde will definately go into Preston PSB before Manchester anyway.

Preston is to go into the new ROC in 2017,Fylde,the last I heard, last week ,is to go to either Manchester East or the new ROC if that is built before electrification.
 

Buspilot

Member
Joined
4 Feb 2012
Messages
120
Here are some pics I took at Stalybridge last weekend:

403933764.jpg


Looking towards Manchester. The new platforms 1 and 2 (reconstructed bay)

403933762.jpg


Looking towards Huddersfield. The cross over is in place for the new bi-directional platform.

403933761.jpg


Again towards Manchester. The extension to platform 1 (4 to be) left, and the new bay (P5) to the right.

403933760.jpg


The end of the new bay P5. Track is already in place in this bay.

403934007.jpg


The end of platform 2 is now partly demolished and an extension is being built right up to the bridge ironwork
 
Last edited:

Whistler40145

Established Member
Joined
30 Apr 2010
Messages
5,911
Location
Lancashire
I am not sure why the Stalybridge remodelling is being mentioned on this thread, which is about the Blackpool to Manchester Electrification.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top