Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[BantamMenace]

Excellent news today.

Out of interest what have the construction contractors been working on since the physical infrastructure was completed a while ago? Have they seamlessly moved on to the next route to be done?

 

[wrinkley]

You now know the answer. Sit somewhere else!

Obviously did on the return journey!

 

[jw]

Are the platforms long enough to support 8-car operation by Class 319 EMUs? Do passenger numbers warrant this?

 

[notlob.divad]

Are the platforms long enough to support 8-car operation by Class 319 EMUs? Do passenger numbers warrant this?

No and Yes. In that order.

 

[notlob.divad]

Out of interest what have the construction contractors been working on since the physical infrastructure was completed a while ago? Have they seamlessly moved on to the next route to be done?

Ha. Joined up thinking? In the UK? Pull the other one.

 

[furnessvale]

Excellent news today.

Out of interest what have the construction contractors been working on since the physical infrastructure was completed a while ago? Have they seamlessly moved on to the next route to be done?

You obviously don't understand how railway electrification works in the UK.

It is government policy to ensure that cost is maximised. Therefore no new schemes will be authorised for several years. Meanwhile, the staff involved will all be made redundant and take employment elsewhere. The plant and equipment used will be parked in a siding somewhere to be vandalised.

After a few years, the government will authorise another scheme. The men from the last job have now found good alternative employment and have no interest in returning to the railways. New staff will have to be found and trained. The plant and equipment will be taken out of the sidings and towed to the scrapyard. New plant will be procured at great expense. After many months, things will be ready to start work but the scheme is now already delayed and costs have risen.

Me cynical? Perish the thought!

 

[jw]

It's very unfortunate that the Northern Sparks report is not being implemented - steady, gradual electrification of busy routes in the North. 2025 and the end of the Arriva franchise will come soon enough and we'll be in the position again of old, short diesel stock at the end of its life, only this time it will be the Sprinters rather than Pacers. Better to get the wires up and make best use of the glut of EMUs coming spare from other franchise renewals.

 

[Class 170101]

I'm fascinated that 319s have been introduced so quickly via Bolton, considering the mega-issue that training seemed to be last year.
Clearly the crews already know the electric units,

That was route learning, but presumably nobody needed any route learning specially for this.

Class 319 training has been ongoing for years, so my guess would be that the large majority of the relevant crews already sign 319s.

No requirement to re-learn the route for Class 319s if already signed for using DMUs. As noted Drivers have been learning Class 319s using already electrified routes elsewhere in the North West.

 

[td97]

Out of interest what have the construction contractors been working on since the physical infrastructure was completed a while ago? Have they seamlessly moved on to the next route to be done?

• Been plenty of OHLE renewals around Liverpool recently
• Snagging at Blackpool too
• Heyrod 'Extension lead'
• Perhaps bolstered other teams working on MML/GWML/GEML/ECML OLE installations (former 2) and renewals (latter 3).

Now, I'm out of ideas explicitly regarding electrification. I imagine the people in these teams branded as 'electrification teams' are fairly multi-disciplinary and can also perform standard track/signalling renewals, other maintenance and the like. Lots going on at the Cumbrian Coast route lately.

It's very unfortunate that the Northern Sparks report is not being implemented - steady, gradual electrification of busy routes in the North.

Given the length of time taken for this project, would you rather have 3 consecutive projects ongoing in the NW, each overrunning by 3x the length of this one? Obviously it's not ideal to have limited skilled workers and money - but that's the reality. Sometime soon enough, now this project's in it's final phases, their skills will go elsewhere.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Given the length of time taken for this project, would you rather have 3 consecutive projects ongoing in the NW, each overrunning by 3x the length of this one? Obviously it's not ideal to have limited skilled workers and money - but that's the reality. Sometime soon enough, now this project's in it's final phases, their skills will go elsewhere.

Or some kind of task force that would start the next job as soon as the previous one was completed? Rather than each project being completely separate.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Or some kind of task force that would start the next job as soon as the previous one was completed? Rather than each project being completely separate.

That's the point of having a designated rolling programme of electrification, something that many have been promoting for decades but short-termist politicians refuse to entertain. It's the British (rail) way of continually muddling through with HS2 in danger of being similarly undermined. At least that mindset is something that's unaffected by Brexit!

 

[Bertie the bus]

What's the point of a rolling programme? So other rail users can be similarly inconvenienced for a similarly lenghty amount of time for very little benefit?

There is absolutely no evidence that any lessons have been learnt from this fiasco or future projects would be better managed or implemented. Jeez, they even missed the umpteenth deadline of last December by more than 2 months and the project still isn’t complete.

 

[59CosG95]

What's the point of a rolling programme? So other rail users can be similarly inconvenienced for a similarly lenghty amount of time for very little benefit?

There is absolutely no evidence that any lessons have been learnt from this fiasco or future projects would be better managed or implemented. Jeez, they even missed the umpteenth deadline of last December by more than 2 months and the project still isn’t complete.

Retaining the skills used on the project, for one thing. If a project is continuous, management are much less reluctant to let their staff forget about past incidents,

I still believe that the fact that UK electrification is largely invested in boom-and bust cycles contributed to the delays here, with the Chase Line, the Cross-City Bromsgrove Extension, the GWML, and the other now-completed parts of the NWEP.

 

[td97]

There is absolutely no evidence that any lessons have been learnt from this fiasco or future projects would be better managed or implemented.

There is though. I'll point you to a post I made in the NPR Thread last year with an interview from one of the NPR directors, detailing some of the lessons learnt and what will change. They really are doing their utmost to change right across the board and deliver a successful project from the very start.
(I started out by copying across quotes, but the whole article details so many different ways in which changes will be made and it would have too off-topic to include them all on this thread. But any further discussion is welcomed in the NPR thread if you want to quote these posts across.)

 

[Jozhua]

Are electric services continuing to run on the Bolton route today?

Will we see an increase in electric traction services in the coming weeks?

Thanks for the info

 

[Wtloild]

Retaining the skills used on the project, for one thing. If a project is continuous, management are much less reluctant to let their staff forget about past incidents,

I still believe that the fact that UK electrification is largely invested in boom-and bust cycles contributed to the delays here, with the Chase Line, the Cross-City Bromsgrove Extension, the GWML, and the other now-completed parts of the NWEP.

The Scottish government seems to have much more strategic thinking in this regard, with a continuous rolling programme to make use of the skills accrued (e.g. Alloa and Grangemouth extensions).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That keeps on being quoted, but I'm not aware of any new routes being committed by SG and NR.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Are electric services continuing to run on the Bolton route today?
Will we see an increase in electric traction services in the coming weeks?
Thanks for the info

Yes, the same diagrams are electric today.
The future was also visible at Preston with a 331 and a 397 parked up on adjacent platforms, during their test runs on the WCML.

The Extension Lead from Stalybridge is still nothing like complete.
The cable route over the last mile into Victoria is only partially constructed.
Plenty of Siemens folk working on it.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Yes, the same diagrams are electric today.
The future was also visible at Preston with a 331 and a 397 parked up on adjacent platforms, during their test runs on the WCML.

The Extension Lead from Stalybridge is still nothing like complete.
The cable route over the last mile into Victoria is only partially constructed.
Plenty of Siemens folk working on it.

It seems the wind has blown the covers off of a lot of it too!

 

[Mollman]

Are electric services continuing to run on the Bolton route today?

Will we see an increase in electric traction services in the coming weeks?

Thanks for the info

Yes, the same diagrams are electric today.
The future was also visible at Preston with a 331 and a 397 parked up on adjacent platforms, during their test runs on the WCML.

The Extension Lead from Stalybridge is still nothing like complete.
The cable route over the last mile into Victoria is only partially constructed.
Plenty of Siemens folk working on it.

Guess that means that the answer to Jozhua's Q2 is not until the extension lead is finished.

 

[Clip]

Struggling to understand the why the works that are ongoing on sundays closing the lines to both North and South routes - couldnt have been done during the closure?

 

[TBSchenker]

The Blackpool route is traditionally closed post New Year in the office season for regular maintenance and Pway works. It'll be closed the same time next year . It's just one of those regular schedules.

Usually that's the time to replace points, level crossings, track work etc.

 

[PN27]

Usually that's the time to replace points, level crossings, track work etc.

As virtually the entire route was re-laid during the electrification works, one would hope it's only snagging works they're doing this year.

 

[Geeves]

Had a ride from Salford Crescent to Chorley on the electric. I guess seeing as all we have really ever known is 75 I cannot compare to anything else up there but it seems faster on the electric, we were waiting time at most stations beyond Bolton and we used platform 5 as a double treat at Bolton. As much as people call the 319s they are performing great from what I could tell.

I am sure once the 100mph comes in Salford to Bolton could be done in 15 easy even on a "slow" 319.

 

[geoffk]

Are the same diagrams being worked by 319s Monday to Saturday, anyone know? Now that we have a full Saturday service again. And do we expect work to start on Lostock Jn - Wigan?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Are the same diagrams being worked by 319s Monday to Saturday, anyone know? Now that we have a full Saturday service again. And do we expect work to start on Lostock Jn - Wigan?

What makes you think there is any plan to wire Lostock-Wigan?
That's what the 769s are for.
Victoria-Stalybridge is slightly different as it seems to be one part of the TP project that is likely to go ahead, but without a timescale as yet.
In any case, none of these projects is sufficiently advanced in design that work on site can start for some considerable time.

 

[geoffk]

What makes you think there is any plan to wire Lostock-Wigan?
That's what the 769s are for.
Victoria-Stalybridge is slightly different as it seems to be one part of the TP project that is likely to go ahead, but without a timescale as yet.
In any case, none of these projects is sufficiently advanced in design that work on site can start for some considerable time.

Part of the scheme isn't it, approved in 2013 and, afaik it's not been cancelled. Useful as a diversionary route but also the reason why Wigan terminators were switched to WNW as it's very difficult to wire under Wallgate bridge.

 

[Clip]

As virtually the entire route was re-laid during the electrification works, one would hope it's only snagging works they're doing this year.

Exactly however they are saying they are doing drainage works so again - why wasn't that work done when the whole route was shut?

 

[driver_m]

If we had an actual transport secretary rather than a national embarrassment. We might have an answer to whether Westhoughton actually gets wired or not. I sometimes get the feeling it's going to be tied into some Unicorn scheme to wire Southport in order to keep a Tory MP there.

 

[Chris125]

Part of the scheme isn't it, approved in 2013 and, afaik it's not been cancelled. Useful as a diversionary route but also the reason why Wigan terminators were switched to WNW as it's very difficult to wire under Wallgate bridge.

Like many other CP5 schemes it was deferred and faces an uncertain future - what gets the go-ahead in CP6 remains to be seen.