Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[GRALISTAIR]

Shirley the demand on the west coast will be lower (nil) so not much of an issue.

Agreed but stop calling me Shirely

 

[jonesy3001]

During that weekend in April? Who knows, but I hope the Great Extension Lead will be connected before then...

You would of thought they would do it over the easter holidays at the same time, but it is network rail.

 

[jonesy3001]

Shirley the demand on the west coast will be lower (nil) so not much of an issue.

Got a point the overheads might be switched off in certain sections

 

[Class 170101]

Wouldn't Parkside feeder be isolated given that services are diverting via Bolton so won't be able to support Preston to Manchester?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Wouldn't Parkside feeder be isolated given that services are diverting via Bolton so won't be able to support Preston to Manchester?

If the block is north of Wigan then Parkside may still be able to feed the Chorley line via Salford. And if Liverpool to Wigan electrics are running then it will be needed for the Bryn route. Perhaps one of our resident experts can confirm or correct these assumptions.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If the block is north of Wigan then Parkside may still be able to feed the Chorley line via Salford. And if Liverpool to Wigan electrics are running then it will be needed for the Bryn route. Perhaps one of our resident experts can confirm or correct these assumptions.

Liverpool-Wigan/Warrington and Manchester-Wigan appear to be 319s as usual, so the block seems to be between Wigan and Euxton Jn.

 

[jonesy3001]

good luck to the lads watching out for the test runs tonight, that's if they run.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S11527/2019/02/21/advanced

 

[GRALISTAIR]

good luck to the lads watching out for the test runs tonight, that's if they run.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S11527/2019/02/21/advanced

Can I ask a silly question please? Why are these needed? They are already running so test trains not needed unless 100mph - but those schedules say timed for 75mph. Makes no sense to me or am I missing something simples?

 

[jonesy3001]

Can I ask a silly question please? Why are these needed? They are already running so test trains not needed unless 100mph - but those schedules say timed for 75mph. Makes no sense to me or am I missing something simples?

I've just read the posts from page 315, from post 9438 and said good luck to whose out tonight for the test trains, they might be for the easter weekend when the VT and TPE trains divert onto the bolton line for speeds and if the overheads will cope.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...r-electrification.66879/page-315#post-3861711

 

[PN27]

Can I ask a silly question please? Why are these needed? They are already running so test trains not needed unless 100mph - but those schedules say timed for 75mph. Makes no sense to me or am I missing something simples?

It's also timed for a Sprinter. If this is a test run, I don't think it's wise to take the pathing details as gospel.

 

[jonesy3001]

It's also timed for a Sprinter. If this is a test run, I don't think it's wise to take the pathing details as gospel.

Will be till may, but it's definitely a 319 doing the testing.

 

[john prytherch]

Many thanks to "Llama" for the post on Monday with the thorough explanation of what now controls where.

John Prytherch.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Looks like 5Z91 and 5Z92 both ran according to RTT

 

[jonesy3001]

does anyone know what unit they were using and they seem to be running again in the early hours of tomorrow morning.

 

[LDECRexile]

Looking at this:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S11527/2019/02/21/advanced

the train passed Buckshee Parkway 28 minutes early then went on to pass Salford Crescent 48 minutes early, gaining 20 minutes in the process. This suggests high speed running, or am I missing something?

 

[jonesy3001]

seem to have gone 22 late on 5Z94 journey from salford crescent.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S11533/2019/02/21/advanced

 

[LDECRexile]

Yes, that's overall picture, but it appears to have stopped between Salford Crescent and Agecroft South Jct, passing there 22 minutes late, eventually passing Buckshee 14 minutes late, a gain of 8 minutes.

 

[jonesy3001]

wonder if it'll make an improvement when they test again in the early hours of tomorrow?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S11534/2019/02/22/advanced

 

[LeylandLen]

Could these recent nightly test runs be driver training? ; drivers getting route knowledge ? I assume they are always 319s irrespective of what the pathing details say.If Virgin 390s and/or Voyagers are to be diverted over Easter then I assume those drivers will need route knowledge...

 

[Llama]

There's no driver training needed, if there was then drivers could use Northern service trains (which is what VT drivers relearning Chorley are doing).

 

[gordonjahn]

Looking at this:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S11527/2019/02/21/advanced

the train passed Buckshee Parkway 28 minutes early then went on to pass Salford Crescent 48 minutes early, gaining 20 minutes in the process. This suggests high speed running, or am I missing something?

I'm not sure I'd conclude high speed running - if you look at a couple of lines from RTT:

20 62 Burnden Jn pass 0055½ pass 0041 14E
26 9 Clifton [CLI] 1 pass 0104½ pass 0045½ 18E

This implies it made up 4 minutes, but the mileages show it did 5mi27ch or 5.34 miles decimal. It did this in 4.5 minutes (45.5-41) or 0.075 hours (4.5/60). Divide distance by time and 5.34/0.075 gives you a speed over that section of 71.2mph.

It's not totally accurate as the time will only be accurate to 1/4 minute (introducing a quantisation error), but it doesn't provide evidence of running at > 75mph.

 

[LDECRexile]

I'm not sure I'd conclude high speed running - if you look at a couple of lines from RTT:

20 62 Burnden Jn pass 0055½ pass 0041 14E
26 9 Clifton [CLI] 1 pass 0104½ pass 0045½ 18E

This implies it made up 4 minutes, but the mileages show it did 5mi27ch or 5.34 miles decimal. It did this in 4.5 minutes (45.5-41) or 0.075 hours (4.5/60). Divide distance by time and 5.34/0.075 gives you a speed over that section of 71.2mph.

It's not totally accurate as the time will only be accurate to 1/4 minute (introducing a quantisation error), but it doesn't provide evidence of running at > 75mph.

Agreed, I've done a similar calculation from Moses gate to Clifton with a similar result. I wonder if anyone closer to the action can comment.

 

[jonesy3001]

319372 did the tests in the early hours of this morning, the GNRP have posted a video on there twitter account.

https://twitter.com/TheGNRP/status/1098781443415855105

 

[LDECRexile]

319372 did the tests in the early hours of this morning, the GNRP have posted a video on there twitter account.

https://twitter.com/TheGNRP/status/1098781443415855105

That should put the tin hat on it. Fingers crossed that it's all systems go.

 

[Ianno87]

I'm not sure I'd conclude high speed running - if you look at a couple of lines from RTT:

20 62 Burnden Jn pass 0055½ pass 0041 14E
26 9 Clifton [CLI] 1 pass 0104½ pass 0045½ 18E

This implies it made up 4 minutes, but the mileages show it did 5mi27ch or 5.34 miles decimal. It did this in 4.5 minutes (45.5-41) or 0.075 hours (4.5/60). Divide distance by time and 5.34/0.075 gives you a speed over that section of 71.2mph.

It's not totally accurate as the time will only be accurate to 1/4 minute (introducing a quantisation error), but it doesn't provide evidence of running at > 75mph.

71.2mph average from a low speed at Bolton over a limited number of miles (so would probably only have been 40-50mph at Burnden Jn) would havily suggest that greater than 75mph running must've been sustained at some point to get an average as high as 71.2mph.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

71.2mph average from a low speed at Bolton over a limited number of miles (so would probably only have been 40-50mph at Burnden Jn) would havily suggest that greater than 75mph running must've been sustained at some point to get an average as high as 71.2mph.

Agree, given that the quarter mile north of Bolton is 20mph and from Bolton to Moses Gate is all acceleration.

(goes away to do some slide-rule work)

I get 4 minutes 25 seconds for Burnden (pass) to Clifton (pass), assuming the new MU differential south of Moses Gate.

 

[YorkshireBear]

319372 did the tests in the early hours of this morning, the GNRP have posted a video on there twitter account.

https://twitter.com/TheGNRP/status/1098781443415855105

What was the testing for does anyone know?

 

[jonesy3001]

What was the testing for does anyone know?

100mph testing for the EMUs and checking the overheads for when the blackpool - airport trains go to EMU operation in the may TT change plus the line will be busy over easter weekend with the VT and TPE diverts.

 

[td97]

NR have also put out a press release today. They definitely reached 100, with a caption on their video saying "100mph speeds in full flow". It mentions 100mph running will feature in the May timetable, but I presume the ESR* will be lifted before then, enabling electric services to arrive even earlier/make up more time than at present.
*Emergency Speed Restriction

Final 100mph speed checks on newly electrified Manchester to Preston railway
A test train along the newly electrified railway between Manchester and Preston made its final journey overnight to complete checks for the arrival of 100mph services in May.
In the early hours of this morning (22 February), the last electric high-speed train ran on the newly upgraded route which will soon see faster and more frequent trains for passengers thanks to the multi-billion-pound Great North Rail Project.
Network Rail engineers made their final high-speed inspections to the track and new overhead lines in the early hours of this morning while on-board the test train from Preston to Manchester Victoria.
Electric trains can currently travel up to 75mph along the line, but once testing is complete the speed limit will rise to 100mph.
Mark Ashton, sponsor for Network Rail, said: “Following the successful introduction of electric passenger trains on the Manchester to Preston railway last week, last night we completed our last test as part of the project to allow trains to run up to 100mph.
“High speed testing of the overhead wires will support the introduction of greener, faster and more frequent trains - a key aim of the Great North Rail Project to help transform rail travel across the North.
"I would like to thank local people for their patience while we have completed this transformational upgrade.”
The results of the tests will be thoroughly checked before being verified by the Office of Rail and Road, after which 100mph services can run on the route when new timetables come into effect in May.

https://www.networkrailmediacentre....wly-electrified-manchester-to-preston-railway

 

[LM93]

NR have also put out a press release today. They definitely reached 100, with a caption on their video saying "100mph speeds in full flow". It mentions 100mph running will feature in the May timetable, but I presume the ESR* will be lifted before then, enabling electric services to arrive even earlier/make up more time than at present.
*Emergency Speed Restriction

https://www.networkrailmediacentre....wly-electrified-manchester-to-preston-railway

You've all been looking in the wrong place, try working it out between Chorley and Adlington