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Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

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LDECRexile

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The sentence on the NR website actually says

"The track then has to be realigned through the station so faster trains can pass each other"

I took this to mean that a curve is being straightened, and/or because the kinematic envelope of a moving train gets slightly larger with higher speed, the tracks need moving slightly further apart.

There is also a standard that requires live OLE to be 3.5m away from any public areas (or shielded), which means it has to be pretty high through stations to be 3.5m away from a platform edge. Hence the reason for much higher footbridges etc.

Thank you for taking this trouble.

I agree that height clearance is to do with the trains being electric, but your explanation of the width clearance seems to be to do with speed of any passing train, not just electric trains. Your explanation makes perfect sense, but JL stated that electrics need more wriggle room, suggesting an additional factor at play besides speed and curvature.
 
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Philip Phlopp

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Thank you for taking this trouble.

I agree that height clearance is to do with the trains being electric, but your explanation of the width clearance seems to be to do with speed of any passing train, not just electric trains. Your explanation makes perfect sense, but JL stated that electrics need more wriggle room, suggesting an additional factor at play besides speed and curvature.

There's a useful diagram in the Paisley Canal Low Cost Electrification PowerPoint presentation of platform clearance issues and OLE wire position.

http://nearyou.imeche.org/near-you/UK/Scottish-Region/Scottish-RD-Centre/past-presentations

You'll need Office PowerPoint, the PowerPoint viewer thingy, or OpenOffice etc to view the file.

The good thing is that generally you can pair the contact and catenary wire to pass under lower clearance obstacles (bridges etc) and increase contact wire height at the same time, as long as the line speed isn't too high.

The kinematic envelope thingy, just using the BREL Mark 3 MU family as an example - a Class 150 and a Class 319 have the same body, but there are a couple of subtle differences, the motor vehicles have different bogies, and all bogies are fitted with yaw dampers to control excess body movement at 100mph (BREL didn't think it was an issue at 75mph - I think they're wrong) so there may need to be a bit of additional spacing provided below the solebar level to accommodate this.

The kinematic envelope thing is perhaps best explained by thinking about going round a corner in a Transit van at 10mph, 30mph and 50mph, you know if you go round a corner at 10mph, it won't roll about much, it will roll a bit more at 30mph, and at 50mph, you'll think you're going to roll it. The same thing happens with a train, but it's fixed to the rails, so it leans and moves slightly (yawing) on the suspension, so the top of the coach moves further from the centre line of the rail, and the whole coach may move latterly against the direction of the curve. Higher speeds mean more energy, which mean more movement.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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More progress to report
I found myself on a Chat Moss route train today (a diverted Euston-Liverpool 390), and noticed new piles have been installed on the Ordsall Lane-Salford Crescent route, south of the Regent Road bridge.
A bit further on, the small electrification depot alongside the L&M used to supply the eastern end of the line has been reactivated.
A stack of metal piles is visible.
 

Joseph_Locke

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Within earshot of trains passing the one and half
The sentence on the NR website actually says

"The track then has to be realigned through the station so faster trains can pass each other"

I took this to mean that a curve is being straightened, and/or because the kinematic envelope of a moving train gets slightly larger with higher speed, the tracks need moving slightly further apart.

In this case (gasp) the press release is wrong. A cursory examination of the platforms at Chorley will reveal that the coping is behind the platform walls. At any speed, most EMUs are wider than the current DMUs and the copings have patently already been pushed as far as they will go. Add to that a small issue with the sixfoot (it isn't) and the need to redeck the station subway to raise the speed (to 75mph, not allowed with long timbers) and you may as well sort all the issues out - the Down platform moves about 750mm, IIRC.

I'd always assumed all trains were built to fit width-wise, even if pantographs require more height clearance than steam and diesel.

Hah. We had to move the track about to get the 158s to fit, and again for 373s. 323s are monsters compared to a 150...
 
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GRALISTAIR

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LDECRexile

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What a fabulous discourse, thank you so much to all who make these threads so rich, varied and valuable.

More progress to report
I found myself on a Chat Moss route train today (a diverted Euston-Liverpool 390), and noticed new piles have been installed on the Ordsall Lane-Salford Crescent route, south of the Regent Road bridge.

Ann and I also came back this evening on a Pendo from Euston to Lime St via Manchester. Below are some shots, two of which show the piles LNW reported.

I'll wang 'em on the Combined Volume tomorrow.
 

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iandavid59

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I have heard that the line between Preston and Bolton will be closed at weekends from 18th June to October 2nd with Rail Replacement in place.
 

1978NWUK

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Clarifying last week's report, there are actually 5 OHLE masts on the Down line south of Adlington.
They have registration gear and a couple have autotensioners fitted.
Nothing on the Up line.

NR has retained the 30mph PSR between the crossovers at Moses Gate and Kearsley, but of course without the dip to 15mph through the old bore.
All working fine today, things seem much more relaxed now the full timetable is back.

319s on the Liverpool-Warrington BQ too.
All the platform PIS displays say "10M more seats annually on Northern services from 14 December. "
Anyone know if that is true?

The 5 structures were from a trial late last year, trialing a new piece of plant and pre dressing of steel exercise.....very successful!
 

LNW-GW Joint

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The short stretch of the Bolton line between Ordsall Lane Jn and the Regent Road bridge now sports masts as well as piled bases - about 8 on each side.
 

snowball

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The short stretch of the Bolton line between Ordsall Lane Jn and the Regent Road bridge now sports masts as well as piled bases - about 8 on each side.

Are these the first actual masts after the test set? A cause for celebration.

Which bridge do you call the Regent Road bridge? I think of Regent Road as being entirely to the south of the lines undergoing electrification.
 

Geeves

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This was posted by 31451 over on WNXX

http://publicaccess.southribble.gov...ils.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=O5XCLHOT01C00

A large-scale project is underway to electrify the Blackpool to Preston train line over the next two years. This forms part of the wider North West Electrification Programme. As a result of this, a number of diesel passenger train units which would ordinarily be stabled and serviced over night at Blackpool Station will require an alternative location. A thorough option selection process has been completed by Network Rail in order to identify suitable locations within the NW (with proximity to Preston considered as a critical factor). The application site is considered to meet Network Rail’s key requirements, both from a construction and operational perspective.

Basically if you have a read of the various planning docs youll see the plan while Blackpool station and sidings are closed is to reopen the former Leyland car sidings and use them as temporary stabling for trains usually stood overnight at Blackpool N for a period of about a year with an extension if needed in 2018.

Good to see something happening!
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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Are these the first actual masts after the test set? A cause for celebration.

Which bridge do you call the Regent Road bridge? I think of Regent Road as being entirely to the south of the lines undergoing electrification.

Yes, indeed.
The bridge is the first one on the Windsor Bridge line.
Have to check the map again for the name when I get home!
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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South of Liverpool Street, not Regent St?
Excellent news in any event.

Yes, it's the Liverpool St bridge.
Presumably the old A57.
Below is a picture taken from a train on the Chat Moss line.
The first couple of masts are at the end of the currently wired route at Ordsall Lane Jn.
The new masts go as far as the bridge in the distance.

Nothing much to report on the rest of the route - maybe an extra base or two either side of Buckshaw Parkway.
Nothing going on between Victoria and Miles Platting, either (in case people were thinking work had started on the Stalybridge line).
 

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snowball

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Yes, it's the Liverpool St bridge.
Presumably the old A57.
At the time road numbers were introduced in 1922, Regent Road and Liverpool Street both existed, and the A57 followed Regent Road as now.

Looking at old OS large-scale maps on www.old-maps.co.uk, the oldest map there is from 1848. Regent Road exists and appears to have been the main route to Eccles and Liverpool, so perhaps it was built in the time of the Prince Regent?

In 1848, Liverpool Street existed but only extended as far west as Cross Lane, so it seems unlikely to have been part of a route to Liverpool.

I don't think Liverpool Street, Salford, has ever quite connected with Liverpool Road, Manchester, the address of the famous station.

Further west, Regent Road becomes Eccles New Road on modern maps, but the corresponding Eccles Old Road is well to the north of Liverpool Street (and seems to have been called Brook House Lane in 1848).
 
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LDECRexile

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LNW-GW Joint has kindly given permission to add his fab new masts shot to the Combined Volume.

I've added it to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157649960023396

and to the CV here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

Thank you LNW.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
At the time road numbers were introduced in 1922, Regent Road and Liverpool Street both existed, and the A57 followed Regent Road as now.

Looking at old OS large-scale maps on www.old-maps.co.uk, the oldest map there is from 1848. Regent Road exists and appears to have been the main route to Eccles and Liverpool, so perhaps it was built in the time of the Prince Regent?

Thank you very much for this.

I used the admirable old-maps site for some years, but some months ago I was introduced to the National Library of Scotland's mapping site which knocks old-maps into a cocked hat. What's more it is totally free to use, no sign-in, nuffink; just use it.

I contribute a bit to Wikipedia and swear by this material both for research and to enhance articles. Here's a topical example:

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=53.4800&lon=-2.2739&layers=6

Not only does this enable you to see the metaphorical fly on the back of the dog on the street, but if you look at 5 o'clock on the display you will see a blue blob. Try sliding it to the left. Awesome, or what?!
 

Lankyline

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This was posted by 31451 over on WNXX

http://publicaccess.southribble.gov...ils.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=O5XCLHOT01C00



Basically if you have a read of the various planning docs youll see the plan while Blackpool station and sidings are closed is to reopen the former Leyland car sidings and use them as temporary stabling for trains usually stood overnight at Blackpool N for a period of about a year with an extension if needed in 2018.

Good to see something happening!

Still looks like single line connection opening out to two lines in the siding, there is direct road access from the industrial estate leading up to very long car park area, be interesting to see how many units they're planning to stable there.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=53.4800&lon=-2.2739&layers=6
Not only does this enable you to see the metaphorical fly on the back of the dog on the street, but if you look at 5 o'clock on the display you will see a blue blob. Try sliding it to the left. Awesome, or what?!

I've looked very hard, but there are no masts visible on the "modern" map.
You'd think they'd keep these maps up to date... ;)
Doesn't show the burnt-out recycling depot just south of the Chat Moss line either.
Totally untouched since the fire.
Ordsall Lane station must have been a great place to stand and watch the trains.
 

Trackman

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I went past Orlando bridge (Bolton) at weekend, it's not open - I thought it was complete.
Orange men were walking about underneath but no work going on as I could see.
I've googled about it, something about Bolton Council and strengthening work needed.
Anyone know what is going on?
 

Chrisyd

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I went past Orlando bridge (Bolton) at weekend, it's not open - I thought it was complete.
Orange men were walking about underneath but no work going on as I could see.
I've googled about it, something about Bolton Council and strengthening work needed.
Anyone know what is going on?

This article in the Bolton News explains it, all of the associated portacabins etc from Network Rail have disappeared and the area has been cleared completely.

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news..._bridge_set_to_reopen_after_10_month_closure/
 

snowball

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Press release:

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...preston-as-improvement-work-at-chorley-begins

Passengers and residents in Chorley can find out more about work to upgrade the railway through the area at a public drop-in session this week.

The railway through Chorley station will be electrified as part of Network Rail’s Railway Upgrade Plan to provide passengers with better journeys. It is part of a £1bn+ Northern Programmes investment which will enable faster, more frequent trains through the area from December 2017.

Track through the area will be lowered to accommodate new overhead line equipment which will power electric trains between Manchester and Preston via Bolton from the end of 2017. Both of Chorley’s platforms will be rebuilt and the roofs over two subways inside and next to the station will be replaced to support an increase in train services.

A temporary platform will be installed for passengers travelling north towards Preston while platform 1 is rebuilt and extended. Platform 2, which serves trains towards Manchester, is being rebuilt in sections and will remain open to passengers throughout the project.

To deliver the long-term benefits, the line between Preston and Bolton will have to be closed every weekend from Saturday 18 June to Sunday 2 October while the upgrades take place. This will mean changes to weekend and some mid-week evening train services in the area while the work is carried out.

Some of the work involved will have to take place overnight and, while everything will be done to minimise disruption to local residents, there will be some noise as a result.

Members of the local community can find out more about the work at an information event today (Tuesday 10 May) from 4pm to 7pm at Chorley Town Hall.

Northern customers can find out how journeys will be changing at Chorley station on Saturday 14 May from 9am to 1pm.

There's also another press release about completion of the new platform at Rochdale, which should not be this thread, but I'm not sure what thread it should be:

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...ugh-and-manchester-victoria-completed-on-time

Trains between Littleborough and Manchester Victoria have returned to normal after five weekends of work to upgrade the railway were completed on time.

Network Rail’s orange army has worked round-the-clock each weekend over the past month installing 1,200m of new track between the two stations as part of work to bring Rochdale station’s new platform into use and eventually reduce journey times in the area.

As well as installing the new track, existing track has been remodelled between Manchester Victoria and Rochdale to link the new platform to the rail network as part of Network Rail’s £1bn+ Northern Programme investment in the north of England.

The railway reopened on time yesterday (Monday 10 May) with trains running once again from the start of service.

The new platform will allow trains to turn back at Rochdale from Manchester Victoria, enabling more services between the two. This will mean fewer trains are stationed in Manchester Victoria, releasing capacity to help deliver wider benefits across the network and keeping more passengers moving. It will also allow faster services to pass through the station, improving journey time along the Calder Valley line which runs between Manchester and Leeds via Bradford.

Work to build the new 135m-long bay platform at Rochdale station began in January this year, with engineers working through the night when trains are not running and during the weekly Sunday closures of Manchester Victoria. Work will continue over the coming months as engineers complete surfacing work on the platform and install lighting, passenger information screens and fencing.

Terry Strickland, area director at Network Rail said: “I would like to thank passengers for their patience over the past five weekends while we worked to improve the railway between Manchester Victoria and Littleborough.

“The weekend closures have meant that our engineers have successfully installed 1,200m of track and remodelled the lines around Rochdale station to link in the new platform.

“The next phase of work which begins in summer this year is essential to commission the new platform at Rochdale. As plans are finalised, our main focus is ensuring that work causes as little disruption to the travelling public as possible.”

Alex Hynes, managing director at Northern said: “Investing in local improvements which provide network wide benefits for our customers is positive news. What has been achieved by the upgrade at Rochdale will spread service enhancements across the North West as well as into Yorkshire.

“Future-proofing the railway helps create more travel opportunities for communities in the long term and helps deliver even more of our customers to and from cities like Manchester and Leeds.”

The next phase of work will begin in summer to strengthen the main bridge into Rochdale station. Work to strengthen this essential structure to support three train movements is vital to bring the new platform into use. Engineers have taken advantage of the recent weekend closures to conduct bridge investigations on eight bridges along the route and an exact programme of work is currently being finalised.
 

SodTheDrummer

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Definite Green shoots appearing - sticks in ground after Crescent (to Bolton), some have labels on - couldn't get pics sorry. Also from Moses Gate to Bolton, sticks with info written on them in marker pen..
 

TBSchenker

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Keep meaning to get a photo on my way back from work. Just remembered in time today, I'll try and get more masts in tomorrow coming off Ordsall Lane Jn.
 

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