Blackpool Tramway - Last Weekend

[MidnightFlyer]

Heritage tramway? It's the only form of public transport other than buses connect Fleetwood, Thornton / Cleveleys and Blackpool!

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Heritage tramway? It's the only form of public transport other than buses connect Fleetwood, Thornton / Cleveleys and Blackpool!

Now if the Euro-trams ran on the old Fleetwood - Thornton - Poulton - Park & Ride - Blackpool railway then to the Promenade that would be good. Probably better off reinstating the railway service.

 

[Ivo]

This is a post about Blackpool's economy and the effects the modernisation of the tramway may have on it, and is quite critical in nature. For the purposes of this post, I shall be comparing Blackpool with its three major southern rivals: Brighton, Bournemouth and Southend. Between the four of them they are probably Britain's four busiest seaside destinations, and are certainly its largest.

Of these four, three have successfully diversified their economies sufficiently for a loss in tourism to not hit that hard. Brighton and Southend have both developed into genuine city economies (even if only Brighton is a city in name at present), with American Express having a major facility in the former and RBS having a major facility in the latter for example. Bournemouth meanwhile features as the main destination for most social and economic needs between Southampton and Exeter; even then however most other such facilities are based in Poole anyway which would then benefit Bournemouth as the two grow together. All three also function as major centres of learning; Brighton has two Universities, Bournemouth has Britain's "Best New University" (source) and Southend, though fairly minor at Higher level, is the seat of one of Britain's largest colleges (and the largest in the entire East of England region).

By contrast, Blackpool has struggled to diversify. When the time came for change in Blackpool, the town and council between them did not pursue it. It allowed its tourism economy to remain its focus and thus no other prominent economy has a major presence there. Thus, today, Blackpool has a reputation as a town of no real importance on a regional scale, unlike the other three. To illustrate this point, look at the following quote from Southend's City Status bid (which is publically available):

Southend-on-Sea ... [has] ... develop[ed] a multifunctional character that is comparable to Brighton ... unlike many towns in the UK that are obviously shaped by one or two key functions. For example, Blackpool can be labelled as a seaside town given its reliance on the tourism trade

This is made worse by the fact that virtually every notable destination within Blackpool itself is on the coast, or very close to it, with the exceptions of the major park and the hospital; compare Falmer with regards to Brighton, the Airport and University for Bournemouth, and the Airport and Fossetts Park (where the new stadium will be, if it ever gets built!) for Southend. This means that unless any progress is made to secure development away from the seafront, people will always look to it as the defining feature of the town, which is where the tramway comes in.

Each of these has several things that are effectively unique to them, which serves as a Unique Selling Point (meaning theme parks don't count as both Blackpool and Southend can claim them). Brighton has the Volk's Railway and the Marina to the east. Bournemouth has three Cliff Railways and what is quite possibly Britain's most spacious urban beach. Southend has the world's longest pier, complete with railway, and the Kursaal entertainment centre. Blackpool, by contrast, also fares quite well, with its arrangement of three separate piers, the Tower, and of course the tramway. However, the piers are still only piers and have nothing special about them; they are just numerous. That leaves the Tower and the tramway.

Blackpool Tower is what most people would immediately associate Blackpool with, which is all very well. However, it alone cannot sustain a town the size of Blackpool, and with the effective demise of the tramway as a tourist attraction what else is there that serves as a reason to visit Blackpool, as opposed to other tourist towns (including the likes of nearby Southport or Morecambe)? The tramway is part of Blackpool's heritage and identity, and as is shown in this PDF from Bombardier roughly 3 in 4 users of the tramway are tourists - with less than one million other users of the route. Now obviously some of those tourists will use the tram because it is there and serves as an aid, but some people physically visit Blackpool for the trams, while others will be put off by the trams no longer being anything special. The resulting likely patronage, for a line of 11 miles, is far from adequate to run sustainably. Now, I realise that there are accessibility issues with the older trams, and that they will still be used to a limited degree, but this data just doesn't give a sound case for modernising the route, meaning that the tramway itself would cease to function as a physical need (also, consider that the number 1 bus is more or less a carbon copy of the route anyway).

Essentially, with this end of an era also comes the end of one of Blackpool's main attractions. As stated above, when the chance came to modernise the economy, Blackpool did not take it - and now, they risk paying for it. The Tower may be a well-known feature of Blackpool's history and culture, but it now serves as the only year-round feature of note; as stated above, the piers may be numerous but they are otherwise nothing special, while the illuminations may be spectacular but they are a very limited phenomenon.

Looking from an economic perspective, the modernisation of the tramway was going to happen sooner or later - but unless they get it spot on, the accelerated demise of Blackpool's already weakened and weakening economy looks inevitable.

 

[BestWestern]

Thank you, Ivo, for demonstrating so articulately the true folly of this ill-advised venture. I'm glad there are several other posters here who can also see the very valid reasons for being sceptical

 

[WatcherZero]

Visitor numbers were up 25% or something this year, despite the poor tramway provision. And an interesting statistic I heard was Blackpool has more visitors than Las Vegas, they just dont spend as much....

 

[Ivo]

Unfortunately, it looks like there may be more bad news on the way for Blackpool: The tramway doesn't need TLC nearly as much as its beaches...

 

[WatcherZero]

Didnt you know? Theyve been winning unclean beach awards for the last two decades, you wouldnt believe some of the sewage you see washed up when walking on the beach.

They used to just dump the sewage into the sea, then they built an 'amazing' sewer system and treatment plant in 1996 which didnt work, became overloaded and of course dumped it out to sea.

 

[BestWestern]

Oh dear

Of all the places in the country where you'd expect to find real effort to keep the beaches clean, Blackpool would surely be somewhere very near the top of the list. Time to pull the collective finger out on this one!

 

[Marvin]

Rigby Road depot would be ideal for a National tram museum

Except for the fact that there's already a National Tramway Museum at Crich.

 

[kylemore]

This is a post about Blackpool's economy and the effects the modernisation of the tramway may have on it, and is quite critical in nature. For the purposes of this post, I shall be comparing Blackpool with its three major southern rivals: Brighton, Bournemouth and Southend. Between the four of them they are probably Britain's four busiest seaside destinations, and are certainly its largest.

Of these four, three have successfully diversified their economies sufficiently for a loss in tourism to not hit that hard. Brighton and Southend have both developed into genuine city economies (even if only Brighton is a city in name at present), with American Express having a major facility in the former and RBS having a major facility in the latter for example. Bournemouth meanwhile features as the main destination for most social and economic needs between Southampton and Exeter; even then however most other such facilities are based in Poole anyway which would then benefit Bournemouth as the two grow together. All three also function as major centres of learning; Brighton has two Universities, Bournemouth has Britain's "Best New University" (source) and Southend, though fairly minor at Higher level, is the seat of one of Britain's largest colleges (and the largest in the entire East of England region).

By contrast, Blackpool has struggled to diversify. When the time came for change in Blackpool, the town and council between them did not pursue it. It allowed its tourism economy to remain its focus and thus no other prominent economy has a major presence there. Thus, today, Blackpool has a reputation as a town of no real importance on a regional scale, unlike the other three. To illustrate this point, look at the following quote from Southend's City Status bid (which is publically available):



This is made worse by the fact that virtually every notable destination within Blackpool itself is on the coast, or very close to it, with the exceptions of the major park and the hospital; compare Falmer with regards to Brighton, the Airport and University for Bournemouth, and the Airport and Fossetts Park (where the new stadium will be, if it ever gets built!) for Southend. This means that unless any progress is made to secure development away from the seafront, people will always look to it as the defining feature of the town, which is where the tramway comes in.

Each of these has several things that are effectively unique to them, which serves as a Unique Selling Point (meaning theme parks don't count as both Blackpool and Southend can claim them). Brighton has the Volk's Railway and the Marina to the east. Bournemouth has three Cliff Railways and what is quite possibly Britain's most spacious urban beach. Southend has the world's longest pier, complete with railway, and the Kursaal entertainment centre. Blackpool, by contrast, also fares quite well, with its arrangement of three separate piers, the Tower, and of course the tramway. However, the piers are still only piers and have nothing special about them; they are just numerous. That leaves the Tower and the tramway.

Blackpool Tower is what most people would immediately associate Blackpool with, which is all very well. However, it alone cannot sustain a town the size of Blackpool, and with the effective demise of the tramway as a tourist attraction what else is there that serves as a reason to visit Blackpool, as opposed to other tourist towns (including the likes of nearby Southport or Morecambe)? The tramway is part of Blackpool's heritage and identity, and as is shown in this PDF from Bombardier roughly 3 in 4 users of the tramway are tourists - with less than one million other users of the route. Now obviously some of those tourists will use the tram because it is there and serves as an aid, but some people physically visit Blackpool for the trams, while others will be put off by the trams no longer being anything special. The resulting likely patronage, for a line of 11 miles, is far from adequate to run sustainably. Now, I realise that there are accessibility issues with the older trams, and that they will still be used to a limited degree, but this data just doesn't give a sound case for modernising the route, meaning that the tramway itself would cease to function as a physical need (also, consider that the number 1 bus is more or less a carbon copy of the route anyway).

Essentially, with this end of an era also comes the end of one of Blackpool's main attractions. As stated above, when the chance came to modernise the economy, Blackpool did not take it - and now, they risk paying for it. The Tower may be a well-known feature of Blackpool's history and culture, but it now serves as the only year-round feature of note; as stated above, the piers may be numerous but they are otherwise nothing special, while the illuminations may be spectacular but they are a very limited phenomenon.

Looking from an economic perspective, the modernisation of the tramway was going to happen sooner or later - but unless they get it spot on, the accelerated demise of Blackpool's already weakened and weakening economy looks inevitable.

Lots of interesting points intelligently put, however unlike the other three places Blackpool is not in the (until recently perhaps!) over heated south east within an hour or so of the London market (ok Bournemouth is a bit further away but still in the ball-park).
Blackpool is in a much more challenging economic region and the options are more limited.
As for the Tramway I'am not an expert on this, what were the other options?

 

[BestWestern]

Lots of interesting points intelligently put, however unlike the other three places Blackpool is not in the (until recently perhaps!) over heated south east within an hour or so of the London market (ok Bournemouth is a bit further away but still in the ball-park).
Blackpool is in a much more challenging economic region and the options are more limited.
As for the Tramway I'am not an expert on this, what were the other options?

Blackpool isn't in the south east, but is instead the default seaside resort of choice for pretty much the whole north of the country. Take a visit and see how many Scots are there, for example. The place doesn't suffer from 'catchment area' problems, though it does of course suffer from being endlessly 'cheap and cheerul'. This is part of why the massive tramway upgrade fails to make any economic sense, Blackpool is not a business centre, nor a modern 'metro' town with a need for swanky trams, it's an old fashined northern seaside town where a state-of-the-art tram system just doesn't really fit it.

 

[Ivo]

Blackpool isn't in the south east, but is instead the default seaside resort of choice for pretty much the whole north of the country. Take a visit and see how many Scots are there, for example. The place doesn't suffer from 'catchment area' problems, though it does of course suffer from being endlessly 'cheap and cheerul'. This is part of why the massive tramway upgrade fails to make any economic sense, Blackpool is not a business centre, nor a modern 'metro' town with a need for swanky trams, it's an old fashined northern seaside town where a state-of-the-art tram system just doesn't really fit it.

Indeed. And further to this point, I would suggest that the definition of north in this instance is pretty much anywhere north of Wolverhampton, unless of course you are happy to settle for smaller and/or second rate locations such as Skegness or Rhyl; even then however, the definition of north is still substantial. Blackpool probably has the highest catchment area of all resorts in the country - by quite a margin.

As an extra, I can probably name 20 urban areas that have no LRT or similar system that would need one more than Blackpool does; they just happened to be the only corporation who actually kept their original one.

Let's see: Aldershot, Belfast, Birkenhead, Bournemouth, Brighton, Bristol, Cardiff, Coventry, Edinburgh, Hull, Leicester, Liverpool, Luton, Medway, Milton Keynes, Portsmouth, Preston, Reading, Southampton, Southend, Stoke, Teesside.

That's 22, one of which may not count for the purposes of this due to location (Belfast), and another which has a system "under construction" [or otherwise] (Edinburgh). All the others probably need a tramway more than Blackpool does, either due to sufficient populations and economy or otherwise reduction of congestion in the centres due to high car ownership. In practice such a scheme would not be viable or necessary in some cases due to topography, layout or existing transport, but even then half of the above would still come before Blackpool.

 

[BestWestern]

Agreed. Ultimately, the underlying reality here is that Blackpool had a substantial regeneration on the cards and somebody thought that the jewel in the crown would be a brand new tram system. Governments are perpetually desperate to crush any belief in the great north/south divide, and so would almost certainly agree to fund it in the name of developing the northeast, swayed no doubt by some very creative reasoning to justify it. It is, and will always remain, a vanity project with a deeply flawed business case.

 

[Ivo]

Unfortunately, it looks like there may be more bad news on the way for Blackpool: The tramway doesn't need TLC nearly as much as its beaches...

I've just found a list of the beaches that failed across the country:

The nine bathing waters that failed to meet the minimum ‘mandatory’ standards in 2011 are: Combe Martin and Ilfracombe Capstone (Wildersmouth) in the South West region; Walpole Bay, Margate in the South East region; Heysham Half Moon Bay, Blackpool Central, Blackpool South, St Annes, St Annes North and Fleetwood in the North West region.

Five of these nine are on the Fylde coast, with North Beach closed due to building works which for all we know could have made it six out of ten. And Heysham isn't exactly far away either.

-------------------

Put simply, these are worrying times for Blackpool. Their transport system is under fire, their economy is struggling to diversify when it needs to, part of their heritage is being lost, and they have the dirtiest coastline in the country. Another addition to this list is its airport: According to data from the Civil Aviation Authority (admittedly found on Wikipedia), passengers numbers have nose-dived (pun not intended), even allowing for the impacts of the recession.

 

[Sheepy1209]

Comparison with urban centres such as Southend and Bournemouth with Blackpool can be misleading because the Blackpool unitary authority area is only a small part of the Fylde coast, and happens to contain a high level of poverty and social problems, many comparable to an inner city.

Blackpool also has a low level of car ownership, so on the face of it the case for public transport is strong. However, taking the Fylde coast as a whole the picture is very different - many people in Lytham and St Annes regard Preston as their local urban centre, even though it's twice as far as Blackpool, because it's easier to drive and park there and they get the bonus of city-level shops / cafes etc.

If the tramway connected Lytham into the system, especially with access to the heavy rail service at Blackpool North, it might make sense - but as it is the Fylde is effectively split by the airport. A 20-mile-long narrow ribbon of towns would be ideal for a tramway if it connected end-to-end, but it doesn't (and there's significant commuter traffic into Lytham and St Annes, even better if the tram went all the way to Preston........just think, close the Fylde heavy rail branch and extend the trams to Preston - how much would that cost compared to electrification?)

One thing that's easily forgotten though is that the tram system has been neglected for many years, to the low point where it had emergency repairs and bans on double-deck cars. It should have been a simple matter of buying some modern trams for the year-round service (instead of the horrible high-floored Centenaries) but instead we've ended up with a full rebuild which has left us without an effective service for two years and follows on from earlier winter closures for local emergency maintenance.

Nobody depends on the tram anymore - however, the number 1 bus provides such a slow, unreliable and overcrowded (with pass-wielding pensioners) service that it doesn't provide a realistic alternative. So people use cars and taxis.

I still have some faith that the tram will be well-used by locals, but not to the levels that in any objective sense would justify it being built. But it would have been politically difficult to close the system, especially while at the same time spending millions on regeneration. And closure was becoming inevitable.

As for the beaches; come to Cleveleys, it's lovely! Magically our bathing waters are OK but those in Fleetwood and Blackpool aren't.
The airport nosedive coincides with introduction of a 'departure tax' of £10 per head, sweetened by free parking. So a family like ours who would use a taxi to get to the airport (car not big enough for all the luggage) will compare that cost with the cost of a taxi or train to Manchester or Liverpool, where there's far more choice of flights.

On the economy; there's been heavy dependence on the public sector, especially the DWP, and the chickens are coming home to roost. As well as high numbers of low-grade administrative jobs there are many working in professional and managerial roles, both civil servants and private sector (e.g. Hewlett-Packard) - these are well-paid jobs, but shrinking. People are taking early retirement or severance and not being replaced. Blackpool is over-dependent on a high population of well-off retired people (many on civil service pensions) but has sod all workwise for young people.

 

[kylemore]

Blackpool isn't in the south east, but is instead the default seaside resort of choice for pretty much the whole north of the country. Take a visit and see how many Scots are there, for example. The place doesn't suffer from 'catchment area' problems, though it does of course suffer from being endlessly 'cheap and cheerul'. This is part of why the massive tramway upgrade fails to make any economic sense, Blackpool is not a business centre, nor a modern 'metro' town with a need for swanky trams, it's an old fashined northern seaside town where a state-of-the-art tram system just doesn't really fit it.

I have enjoyed visits to Blackpool though not recently, I was just intrigued by the fairly negative views of the project. Don't get me wrong they may be justified views, I don't know enough about it frankly.
Could the old system have been kept going purely as a heritage operation?
If it could, presumably it would have had to be handed over to a charitable heritage style organisation?

 

[BestWestern]

It would have been tricky, but I'd think it could have been operated on a seasonal-only basis without enormous difficulty. The key problem was cost and lack of revenue, which I'm sure could have been arrested to a significant degree by mothballing the operation outside of the tourist peak. A gamble has been taken here, it was either going to be slim it all down or go for some radical regeneration work, and the latter option was chosen. The issue that many remain convinced on is whether the economic case is there to back it up.

 

[WatcherZero]

It would have been tricky, but I'd think it could have been operated on a seasonal-only basis without enormous difficulty. The key problem was cost and lack of revenue, which I'm sure could have been arrested to a significant degree by mothballing the operation outside of the tourist peak. A gamble has been taken here, it was either going to be slim it all down or go for some radical regeneration work, and the latter option was chosen. The issue that many remain convinced on is whether the economic case is there to back it up.

Problem was the track needed a comprehensive renewal and it would never have returned the cost of such if they only ran it in tourist season.

 

[BestWestern]

There's such a thing as a timely maintenance schedule of course, and it would seem that BT didn't have one of those for the past few years. I really don't know, it's a tricky one this. Yes it was a struggling network, undoubtedly. But just how significant now is the risk of it continuing to be so? It'll have to work damned hard to delivery any justification, we know that much

 

[ChrisCooper]

My solution for Blackpool would have been to have split the tramway in two. The heritage system would have run from Starr Gate to Little Bispham, with a limited service to Cleveleys to connect with the modern trams. The modern trams would have run from Fleetwood to Cleveleys and then instead of going down the coast would have run more inland, past the north station and following the old railway line before taking over the current line from Blackpool South and heading onto Kirkham and Wesham where they would connect with the mainline. Deals with both the tramway, and also the south line. Would require some demolition to get it from North Station to the old railway alignment, but that could be part of the redevelopment of the centre, which to be honest is a dump (think of the area around the North Station, the first bit people arriving in Blackpool see). From North Station, they could go Talbot Road, Devonshire Road, Fleetwood Road to reach a junction at the current road crossing south of Anchorsholm Lane. The road into Blackpool seems wide enough to be able to have either reserved tramway or tram & bus lanes, due to having fairly wide grass verges.
Not only would it allow the heritage system to operate pretty much untouched, but it would also provide a much faster service through the town, without the need to crawl along the prom, and without getting stuck behind the heritage and illuminated services, and serve areas that the current tramway does not, including better serving the town centre, and serving the station and football ground.

 

[BestWestern]

There is a valid point here as to why all this money wasn't used to expand the network, perhaps reinstating some of the long-lost links into the town, rather than installing a massive and very questionable upgrade of a route which we already know that nobody wants to use. The existing fleet could quite happily have soldiered on a while longer, perhaps with some rebuilds similar to what we have already seen with the remaining Balloons and incorporating some updated electrical tech to boost reliability. Once the routes and the service had become established further upgrades could have been considered for the future.

 

[ChrisCooper]

The old trams themselves should not have any particular reliability problems. Yes the equipment is old, but it's also very basic and there is not much to go wrong, as long as it's maintained well. The reliability problems were with the fairly modern Centenary and Jubilee cars with their electronic control. I think their problem is that for their time they were very advanced, afterall the Jubilees were built in the late 70s using technology that BR would not use until the 319s in the early 90s (GTO Thyristors, AKA Choppers). Like much advanced technology, they haven't aged well. The Balloons though, it's a series of switches allowing power to be fed to the motors by combinations of resistors and series/parallel grouping. The motors themselves are rugged and reliable DC motors.

 

[Ivo]

My solution for Blackpool would have been to have split the tramway in two. The heritage system would have run from Starr Gate to Little Bispham, with a limited service to Cleveleys to connect with the modern trams. The modern trams would have run from Fleetwood to Cleveleys and then instead of going down the coast would have run more inland, past the north station and following the old railway line before taking over the current line from Blackpool South and heading onto Kirkham and Wesham where they would connect with the mainline. Deals with both the tramway, and also the south line. Would require some demolition to get it from North Station to the old railway alignment, but that could be part of the redevelopment of the centre, which to be honest is a dump (think of the area around the North Station, the first bit people arriving in Blackpool see). From North Station, they could go Talbot Road, Devonshire Road, Fleetwood Road to reach a junction at the current road crossing south of Anchorsholm Lane. The road into Blackpool seems wide enough to be able to have either reserved tramway or tram & bus lanes, due to having fairly wide grass verges.
Not only would it allow the heritage system to operate pretty much untouched, but it would also provide a much faster service through the town, without the need to crawl along the prom, and without getting stuck behind the heritage and illuminated services, and serve areas that the current tramway does not, including better serving the town centre, and serving the station and football ground.

Certainly a far better idea than that of BPT and the council. I do feel however that the link to Cleveleys would need to be maintained on a permanent basis, as opposed to a limited one, and that a similar connection would probably be made to the south around Starr Gate (which I realise isn't exactly easy). I just can't see there being enough demand around Lytham etc to actually convince the councils - and Network Rail etc - to convert the South line? It only runs a 2-car 150 (or even 142) now; what hope is there for a tram service, even if said service would run into the centre and beyond and not terminate a mile short of where it needs to be?

 

[ChrisCooper]

Certainly a far better idea than that of BPT and the council. I do feel however that the link to Cleveleys would need to be maintained on a permanent basis, as opposed to a limited one, and that a similar connection would probably be made to the south around Starr Gate (which I realise isn't exactly easy). I just can't see there being enough demand around Lytham etc to actually convince the councils - and Network Rail etc - to convert the South line? It only runs a 2-car 150 (or even 142) now; what hope is there for a tram service, even if said service would run into the centre and beyond and not terminate a mile short of where it needs to be?

By limited service, I meant perhaps 2 an hour. I don't know how much call there would be to go to Cleveleys or beyond from the seafront area, as the service to Little Bispham would cover the main tourist and hotel section. Terminating at Cleveleys requires a reversal on the northbound track, so can cause problems if running late.

As for the south end, the same argument could be given for many places where heavy rail has been converted to light rail, yet the combination of increased frequency, shorter journey times, the ability to run into the town centre and beyond, and replacement of Pacers with shiny new trams should boost passenger numbers. I wouldn't propose running all services right thorough to Kirkham. Perhaps a station could have been built south of Squires Gate to serve the housing development on the former Pontins site, which could be used both as a terminus for some of the Supertram services, and also an extension of the existing heritage line from Starr Gate. Either that or a spur to the airport (another crucial place missed by the new system but that would be served directly or indirectly by my proposal).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There will of course be old biddies in their droves, especially as BT now allows all UK concessionary pass holders on board the trams, but then of course they pay nothing. And since the local council has ownership interests in the company, any concessionary fares reimbursement is simply a paper money-moving exercise.

Oh dear...I appear to now be classified as an "old biddie" at the age of 66..:roll:

Seriously though, can I draw your attention to the fact that whilst all holders of the NTCP over-60 pass in England will be able to avail themselves of the use of the trams in Blackpool, after 0930 Monday to Friday and at all times at weekends, residents from all areas outside the TfGM area, such as my wife's eldest sister who lives in Thornton Cleveleys, with such a pass, will still have to pay to use the trams on the Manchester Metrolink system when visiting that area. I was speaking to someone in authority at Blackpool Council this morning when that very point was made quite forcefully to me.

 

[martinsh]

Oh dear...I appear to now be classified as an "old biddie" at the age of 66..:roll:

Don't worry, you'll stil be the youngest customer in the shop if you visit Sainsburys in Stafford !!!

 

[BestWestern]

Oh dear...I appear to now be classified as an "old biddie" at the age of 66..:roll:

Seriously though, can I draw your attention to the fact that whilst all holders of the NTCP over-60 pass in England will be able to avail themselves of the use of the trams in Blackpool, after 0930 Monday to Friday and at all times at weekends, residents from all areas outside the TfGM area, such as my wife's eldest sister who lives in Thornton Cleveleys, with such a pass, will still have to pay to use the trams on the Manchester Metrolink system when visiting that area. I was speaking to someone in authority at Blackpool Council this morning when that very point was made quite forcefully to me.

Sorry, no offence intended!

I think Metrolink have the right idea. Bearing in mind that the Blackpool system has been struggling for years, what sense can there possibly be in further reducing the level of fare paying punters?! The last thing they can afford is to be dishing out needless freebies :roll:

 

[Sheepy1209]

The promenade bus service (1) was only introduced when tram closures started a few years ago, and was initially seasonal (I think). However, it became permanent around the time of the free bus passes being introduced, so effectively became a free shuttle for pensioners going to and from Cleveleys and Fleetwood (especially the market). We then had the situation of empty trams passing packed buses.

This means the 1 has become a slow, overloaded and unreliable service that locals can't depend on.

Meanwhile, locals have been priced off the trams by lack of ticket integration; for a single day it's been much cheaper to use just the buses on a 'saver' ticket. Thankfully that situation has now been corrected.

I'll be a happy man if next year we see the number 1 bus withdrawn, even if it means standing on the trams. If that means giving free tram rides to pensioners then so be it; Blackpool shouldn't be in the business of duplicating the tram route with buses.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

I'll be a happy man if next year we see the number 1 bus withdrawn, even if it means standing on the trams. If that means giving free tram rides to pensioners then so be it; Blackpool shouldn't be in the business of duplicating the tram route with buses.

I would agree with you, but the removal of 33% of the stops on the tramway would be one case to keep it running. There is always a threat of Stagecoach extending one or more of its services to Fleetwood.

 

[Sheepy1209]

Good point about the tramway stops - though in ten years living near the Anchorsholme Lane stop I've only seen one or two people board or alight at the Lauderdale Avenue stop between there and Cleveleys - similarly between Anchorsholme Lane and Little Bispham.
As these are visitors we're talking about most will prefer to use a promenade service, and I can't see Stagecoach making money out of that. Ironically before the 1 and free passes came in we would frequently find ourselves unable to board a northbound tram at Anchorsholme Lane - all of them paying passengers.