Blind man forced to sit on floor of Virgin train....

[Spankthemonkey]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5093167/Blind-man-forced-sit-floor-Virgin-train.html

A blind man travelling on a Virgin train with his guide dog claims that he was forced to sit on the floor for two-and-a-half hours

Roger Debman says a train conductor pointed to the floor and instructed him to 'sit there' after he complained.

Debra, who is Roger's carer, as well as being a nurse at the Royal Liverpool University Hospital, said: 'As soon as we got on the conductor said the train was full. He came back to say there isn't anywhere to go....

Will Virgin be brave enough to get the CCTV out for this one!

 

[class387]

Is there a source for this that isn't the Daily Mail?

There appears to be a vacant seat on the third row of the VTEC picture and the 'return journey' looks like a 350...

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Just read the article and AGH! Why must people blame Richard Branson and his brand for the selfishness of passengers???

 

[class387]

Just read the article and AGH! Why must people blame Richard Branson and his brand for the selfishness of passengers???

I think the question should be "why do people invent news stories to embarrass TOCs?".

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I think the question should be "why do people invent news stories to embarrass TOCs?"...

Yes exactly.

 

[Bayum]

Is there a source for this that isn't the Daily Mail?

There appears to be a vacant seat on the third row of the VTEC picture and the 'return journey' looks like a 350...

It makes direct reference to the return journey being via London Midland. The point raised is that on the return journey, the passenger was able to find a seat. Because it wasn't a disabled seat, there was no space for the dog without other customers getting irritated that the dog is in the aisle. Would VTEC have been happy to allow him to have a seat whereby the dog would be blocking their aisle? Who knows. But if the customer needs a carer to be with him, then should he have been expected to sit by himself with his dog ?

 

[Starmill]

This isn't really a reliable source, so unless there is a reliable source that has some facts I'd just ignore it.

 

[yorkie]

It sounds like the train was fully reserved when he bought the ticket, and knew of this, but decided to travel on the train anyway.

Obviously with a coach or plane, there is no option to board a fully reserved service, but with a train people can travel on such a service on the understanding there is no guarantee of a seat.

Given some of the sensationalist, and irrelevant stuff that has been said by the two passengers (e.g. reference to the cycle spaces, which are in the DVT!) make me believe that this is a non-story and there is rather more to it than claimed.

If you need a seat, don't take a train that is already fully reserved, surely?

This isn't really a reliable source...

Very true. They refer to "disabled seats" for a start. I don't think Daily Mail journalists are particularly bright.

 

[AlterEgo]

Reminds me of this:

http://metro.co.uk/2013/08/13/speci...dont-want-you-spoiling-their-journey-3922313/

The youngsters from the Stage Right Theatre Group, based in South Lanarkshire, Scotland, were on their way back from a trip to the Edinburgh Fringe festival when they found standard class packed to the brim...

Rebekah Aitken, 25, who runs the group at Carluke Leisure Centre every Sunday, was clearly angered by the treatment of her pupils, aged four to 11, on the service from Edinburgh Waverley.

She told the Daily Record: ‘We were discriminated against because of the disabled kids we had with us.

‘I’m embarrassed for the kids as they were paraded in front of the passengers and made to feel like an inconvenience.

‘The train manager thought they weren’t of the standard to be allowed to sit in the business carriage...

I recall that well, and even the likes of renowned bull****ter and egotist Stephen Fry retweeted a petition against XC. The TM in question was apparently distraught.

The complaint was a complete tissue of lies and XC earned my enduring respect by investigating it thoroughly and eventually issuing a statement blatantly calling the complainant a liar. Because that’s exactly what they were.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I think we've all had to sit on the floor of a Virgin Train because of their failure to reserve seats properly.

Maybe I sound callous, but does being blind mean you can't stand up?

 

[tsr]

I'm really not sure why the guide dog in the aisle was so much of a problem. I've seen countless dogs in or near train aisles, usually only attracting positive attention, and when they are reasonably intelligent (such as assistance/guide dogs) they tend to move when they sense there is a problem. It's not like it's an obstacle which won't move out of everyone's way of its own accord, like a bike or suitcase.

If the passenger had been travelling on a lot of TOCs, the designated priority seats may have little or no more space around them than others - it's merely a sticker and an expectation of consideration from fellow passengers.

 

[Bayum]

I think we've all had to sit on the floor of a Virgin Train because of their failure to reserve seats properly.

Maybe I sound callous, but does being blind mean you can't stand up?

I think it's more likely to be the fact that he's possibly blind because of the ream of issues leading up to the blindness.

 

[edwin_m]

I'm surprised Jeremy Corbyn wasn't occupying the only available floor space.

 

[Chrism20]

Two and a half hours on the York to Peterborough train?

The York to London stopper does York to Peterborough in 95 minutes.

Without sounding heartless they have planned a trip on a service that had no reservations available and expected people just to jump. Surely for their own comfort they could have adjusted their travel times and made sure they got the seats they required.

Also doesn’t the EMT Liverpool to Norwich service stop at Peterborough? Surely this would have made more sense or am I missing something?

 

[Tim R-T-C]

There seems to be an endless rant on Twitter about trains being too busy, usually followed by people saying that the railways should be nationalised because that would fix it.

Even funnier when they complain that fares are too high at the same time. When BR's solution to this problem would have been to raise fares to reduce demand and stop overcrowding!

 

[TheBigD]

Deleted

 

[xc170]

Controversial view point here maybe...

Everywhere you look, we're tied up with political correctness and equality. Blind or not, we've all sat on the floor of a busy train at one point because we couldn't find a seat.. that's only fair and equal, isn't it?

Get over it.

 

[MG11]

Controversial view point here maybe...

Everywhere you look, we're tied up with political correctness and equality. Blind or not, we've all sat on the floor of a busy train at one point because we couldn't find a seat.. that's only fair and equal, isn't it?

Get over it.

I am not having a go at Virgin here, trains do get busy and Virgin are already operating more coaches than say Hull Trains and Grand Central. But, I would imagine being blind causes a sense of being off balance, which can be made worse when in motion. I wonder if the priority seats were being used by passengers who required them though, and not just able bodied/minded passengers.

 

[AlterEgo]

Controversial view point here maybe...

Everywhere you look, we're tied up with political correctness and equality. Blind or not, we've all sat on the floor of a busy train at one point because we couldn't find a seat.. that's only fair and equal, isn't it?

Get over it.

No, it’s not equality.

That’s a bit like saying that “everyone has to manage steps so why should wheelchair users have a ramp?”

It still doesn’t mean Virgin have done anything wrong though and I’m sure there’s plenty we aren’t being told.

 

[traintimemf]

intersting one this one, as I hate what the new franchise has been doing on the east coast (complaints for another thread hah) but I honestly can't see the issue here

I don't see how being blind is a reason he shouldn't sit on the floor, were someone in his seats and the conductor wouldn't kick them out? if so, this is the issue Imo and nothing to do with blindness

also 3 hours, from York to Peterborough is he sure (sorry is the DM sure? there is a couple of time estimates in that piece) takes less time Newcastle to London lol

 

[scrapy]

I think we've all had to sit on the floor of a Virgin Train because of their failure to reserve seats properly.

Maybe I sound callous, but does being blind mean you can't stand up?

It means you can't easily locate handrails or places to brace yourself if the train suddenly brakes or moves sideways.

 

[roversfan2001]

Just read the article and AGH! Why must people blame Richard Branson and his brand for the selfishness of passengers???

I agree. There's plenty of things that they can be blamed for though.

 

[Redonian]

Unsurprisingly, given it's a Daily Mail story, there are some very odd things about this. The blind man was travelling Liverpool - Peterborough but somehow seems to have been travelling on a train from York - Peterborough on VTEC yet returning with London Midland on a 350 which obviously go nowhere near Peterborough.
Unexplained is why he didn't use the hourly EMT Liverpool - Peterborough service.

 

[TheBigD]

Deleted

 

[Gemz91]

This thread is Rail Forums Uk at its best "why can't blind people stand up like the rest of us?"

Use some common sense and have some heart. The guys blind, and either can't see, or has some form of lack of vision. Surely it can't be pleasant for a blind person to be sat on the floor, sensing people walk past you that you can't see.

If he's stood, he won't be able to easily know where hand rails are to hold onto, or see other hazards such as luggage, door ways or other passengers.

Football fans get a bad reputation on this forum, but there's plenty of times I've seen football fans give up seats for older passengers, or passengers feeling unwell when others have remained seated. Maybe rail enthusiasts are less pleasant travellers then football fans are?

 

[Redonian]

Those questioning the journey time, not using EMT's Liverpool-Peterborough direct services etc, see my earlier post, post #16...

I think I can see what went on.
On a weekday Virgin's journey planner does offer a Liverpool - York - Peterborough journey although why you would use it is beyond me when you could get an EMT train direct especially as changing trains for a blind man cannot be easy. The prices are no different.
If the return was on a Saturday then what is offered is Peterborough - Birmingham with Cross Country and onwards to Liverpool with London Midland hence the 350.

 

[roversfan2001]

Maybe rail enthusiasts are less pleasant travellers then football fans are?

The two aren't mutually exclusive. But there is a valid argument for that point. [/offtopic]

 

[SS4]

I think the question should be "why do people invent news stories to embarrass TOCs?".

The answer to that one is usually for compensation and/or exposure. What better way to get free tickets or publicity? Packed trains are far from a polarising issue especially outside the industry/enthusiast community.

In this case I wonder how many outlets did their due diligence and checked the veracity of the report given to them? Could explain why it's nowhere else.

disclaimer: I've not read the article because I refuse to give money from those who obtain it by spreading hate and fear.

 

[yorkie]

Those questioning the journey time, not using EMT's Liverpool-Peterborough direct services etc, see my earlier post, post #16...

The story doesn't make sense either way.

Liverpool to Peterborough via York does make sense if the fast East Coast Main Line is open.

A lengthy journey time between York and Peterborough means it no longer makes sense to travel this way.

Also, why travel via this route, if the train is fully reserved and this fact was known when the tickets were purchased? There could be a reason, but it seems a bit odd.

Use some common sense and have some heart. The guys blind, and either can't see, or has some form of lack of vision. Surely it can't be pleasant for a blind person to be sat on the floor, sensing people walk past you that you can't see.

If you know if you need a seat, it doesn't make sense to travel via this route on what you know to be a fully booked service without a reservation.

 

[Senex]

Without sounding heartless they have planned a trip on a service that had no reservations available and expected people just to jump. Surely for their own comfort they could have adjusted their travel times and made sure they got the seats they required.

Exactly so. If you need special conditions, then you need to make a reservation. If there isn't one to be had on the train you'd ideally like to use, then surely you have to modify your travel plans. You can't expect just to turn up and have space created for you.