Blind man forced to sit on floor of Virgin train....

[AlterEgo]

Two types of cards, one pre printed with the Priority symbol and one not. Holder is issued with the appropriate card the RDG suggests from the evidence provided.

But the RDG aren’t set up to evaluate people’s disabilities and judge whether they should require a seat or not. As it happens, I claim Mobility portion of PIP yet I don’t require a priority seat.

 

[DarloRich]

Nobody is talking about discrimination. It's about how best to allocate limited resources.

But that is exactly what it is,if, perhaps offering a positive. The government is trying to move away from that with recent legislation. I would rather we didn't have to ask people to register for a special list to be able to travel on public transport.

If your dyspraxia and dyscalculia are causing you problems and you require accommodations then don't you think the onus is on you to mention them, or should the entire world assume everyone has these disabilities?

We should assume the world accepts people. People are different. We shouldn't be asking people to register those differences.

As you rightly note "disability" is an incredibly broad spectrum. Of course it's right that disabilities should be accommodated but, precisely because the range of possible needs is so broad, it's just common sense to expect people needing these special accommodations to make notifications in advance, or register for services, on occasion.

why is it common sense? If you are disabled you should have the ability, like you or I, to turn up and use a train. You shouldn't need a special booking or a special card. Seats are available for this eventuality.

 

[Harbouring]

But the RDG aren’t set up to evaluate people’s disabilities and judge whether they should require a seat or not. As it happens, I claim Mobility portion of PIP yet I don’t require a priority seat.

Then I don’t see how a “registered disabled card” could solve these problems any better? It would still be the same system and has been said disability is a broad spectrum, is your card going to state what your disability is? What if your wallet got stolen it opens up cans of worms regarding the privacy of a person. I know that what I have suggested isn’t perfect, but starting from the base value of what we have would be more useful than some magical scheme to provide disabled people with proof they are disabled when money could be better spent ensuring they don’t have improve they are disabled with more equal access for all.

 

[pemma]

I think we've all had to sit on the floor of a Virgin Train because of their failure to reserve seats properly.

Maybe I sound callous, but does being blind mean you can't stand up?

Virgin say the priority seats are for elderly and disabled passengers. Being blind is a disability, although I accept not all disabilities should automatically entitle you to a priority seat e.g. mild learning disabilities.

 

[AlterEgo]

Then I don’t see how a “registered disabled card” could solve these problems any better? It would still be the same system and has been said disability is a broad spectrum, is your card going to state what your disability is? What if your wallet got stolen it opens up cans of worms regarding the privacy of a person. I know that what I have suggested isn’t perfect, but starting from the base value of what we have would be more useful than some magical scheme to provide disabled people with proof they are disabled when money could be better spent ensuring they don’t have improve they are disabled with more equal access for all.

A registered disability card would presumably be subject to similar (but not the same) requirements of a Blue Badge, the requirements for which vary by local authority. There are staff dedicated to assessing disabilities when issuing the Badges, who have been trained. RDG just look at your DLA/PIP award letter and see if you have the right component to be sent a card.

I am (quite rightly!) not entitled to a Blue Badge.

 

[Bletchleyite]

why is it common sense? If you are disabled you should have the ability, like you or I, to turn up and use a train. You shouldn't need a special booking or a special card. Seats are available for this eventuality.

And this is how it should be. I don't park in disabled parking spaces regardless of whether I'd get ticketed or not (I certainly know many car parks with no enforcement at all). I sit in priority seats (for legroom) but would move if requested (or glaringly obvious). I'd also move out of a normal seat if necessary. We shouldn't need blue badges etc. But we do, because far too many people are just selfish.

 

[DarloRich]

And this is how it should be. I don't park in disabled parking spaces regardless of whether I'd get ticketed or not (I certainly know many car parks with no enforcement at all). I sit in priority seats (for legroom) but would move if requested (or glaringly obvious). I'd also move out of a normal seat if necessary. We shouldn't need blue badges etc. But we do, because far too many people are just selfish.

Agreed. I just don't think a disabled ID card would fix that problem.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed. I just don't think a disabled ID card would fix that problem.

I disagree, but fair enough. Do you think the Blue Badge should be abolished?

 

[DarloRich]

I disagree, but fair enough. Do you think the Blue Badge should be abolished?

It works well (ish) but is not perfect. The qualification terms are not uniform and there is abuse.

 

[infobleep]

This reminds me of a situation I witnessed on Saturday night. I went into The Keep pub in Guildford. A lady in a wheelchair was complaining that the pub wouldn't provide am accessible loo and so her right to use the loo was being denyed. He was asking her to leave.

Shortly she uttered the first word and that was it, she was definitely leaving.

Whether the pub would have space to fit a disabled loo I don't know. It does have male and female loos.

I didn't like to get involved but I would like to have said to the lady she go to All Bar One. They do have an accessible loo but on a Saturday night they stick their resident DJ and his desk sideways on, in front of it.

I understand places not always being able to provide facilities but providing them and then not easy access to them, it is worse.

I've been very tempted to ask to use that loo before, once the DJ had set up but I didn't. For avoidance of doubt, I'm not in a wheelchair but I do have a key for accessibility loos and a genuine need to have such a key.

A for the blind man in question, I don't know how much he can see whether he sit find sitting on the floor difficult, due to this sight. If not then I think that is what be woild have had to do.

I think if someone had asked me I'd have given up my seat and used the floor. I have arthritis, although it's under control at the moment but I'd consider their needs greater.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think if someone had asked me I'd have given up my seat and used the floor. I have arthritis, although it's under control at the moment but I'd consider their needs greater.

The problem is that not everyone is as reasonable - and nor, for balance, is every disabled person - people are people, whether they have a disability or not.

 

[Llanigraham]

Two types of cards, one pre printed with the Priority symbol and one not. Holder is issued with the appropriate card the RDG suggests from the evidence provided.

And who decides what level you are?

 

[Bletchleyite]

And who decides what level you are?

Criteria which can be assessed by a medical professional or similar. It's no different in concept from a Blue Badge. Many entitlements are assessed in this manner.

 

[Llanigraham]

Criteria which can be assessed by a medical professional or similar. It's no different in concept from a Blue Badge. Many entitlements are assessed in this manner.

Meaning you wish to make the system more complicated, more difficult, slower and almost certainly more expensive than the current system!
I thought you wanted to simplify the system?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Meaning you wish to make the system more complicated, more difficult, slower and almost certainly more expensive than the current system!

There is no current system (other than relying on people having some kind of morals, which all too often they don't).

 

[AlterEgo]

Meaning you wish to make the system more complicated, more difficult, slower and almost certainly more expensive than the current system!
I thought you wanted to simplify the system?

It’s not about railway ticketing, it’s about ensuring those, particularly with hidden disabilities, can feel empowered to exercise rights they already have in law but which are often denied to them.

All that’s being suggested is an optional national - not railway - card showing a person’s disability, which they can then show as proof of entitlement in situations like the one described in the article.

I don’t understand what’s objectionable about it. Do you think Blue Badges make driving complicated?

 

[Bletchleyite]

All that’s being suggested is an optional national - not railway - card showing a person’s disability, which they can then show as proof of entitlement in situations like the one described in the article.

And add to that, potentially, it being a criminal (or Byelaw) offence not to give up a seat when shown such a card unless you yourself can counter it with your own card. This kind of thing is the case in at least Belgium, probably other European countries too.

That would concentrate minds on things like that and on buggies on buses and similar.

 

[Dai Corner]

Are we talking something like the Autism Awareness Card?

Description
This card has been developed in consultation with people on the autism spectrum and their families. The card can be carried by a parent or carer of a person on the autism spectrum and handed out in difficult situations where they may find communication difficult. Suitable for all age groups.

The card contains the following text:

This person is on the autism spectrum

> Autism is a lifelong disability that affects social and communication skills.

> Autistic people may behave in unpredictable ways as a result of their difficulty in understanding language and social situations.

> Autistic people are likely to be extremely anxious in unfamiliar situations.

> Please help by being understanding, patient and tolerant.

 

[Qwerty133]

And add to that, potentially, it being a criminal (or Byelaw) offence not to give up a seat when shown such a card unless you yourself can counter it with your own card. This kind of thing is the case in at least Belgium, probably other European countries too.

That would concentrate minds on things like that and on buggies on buses and similar.

It should never be a criminal offence to choose to not give up a seat as there may be reasons why passengers without such a card would need a seat, and many people, especially those who are the most vulnerable may be unaware of any such scheme or unable to obtain such a card (due to the application process being impossible for them).

 

[silverfoxcc]

Whatever happened to old fashioned politeness?
And put another way. Those on here who are banging on about why should a disabled person etc have some sort of priority, what would their reaction be if the said person had been their mother?
There always seems to be a circling of the corporate wagons whenever criticism of service crops up on here

Just saying

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Maybe the priority seats were already taken by disabled people - not every disability is visible you know!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Unlikely though, I know.

 

[Mag_seven]

Whatever happened to old fashioned politeness?
And put another way. Those on here who are banging on about why should a disabled person etc have some sort of priority, what would their reaction be if the said person had been their mother?
There always seems to be a circling of the corporate wagons whenever criticism of service crops up on here

Just saying

Couldn't agree more - there is far too much "he should have done this", "he didn't do that" on this thread (even insinuations that he might be telling lies or at least stretching the truth!). At the end of the day whats it coming to if someone can't give up their seat for a blind man.

 

[deep south]

We seem to have lost sight of the fact there were 3 members of the travelling party - husband / wife & guide dog. I don't think it is unreasonable for them to have the expectation that they could use the "priority seats" to seat the 3 of them together (unless of course they were already occupied by people entitled to use them). I am not sure what the world is coming to; courtesy and understanding is very much in short supply nowadays.

 

[Llanigraham]

There is no current system (other than relying on people having some kind of morals, which all too often they don't).

What? You cannot just apply for a Disabled Persons Railcard, you have to support your application with various documents. In my case a copy of the "Battery Book" issued by the NHS with my hearing aid, which has my name and address on it, and in my son's case a letter from his Epilepsy Consultant.
Please get your facts straight.

Seems some people here seem to have confused the granting of car Blue Cards with the Railcard. There is no connection and I have made no such comparison.

 

[AlterEgo]

What? You cannot just apply for a Disabled Persons Railcard, you have to support your application with various documents. In my case a copy of the "Battery Book" issued by the NHS with my hearing aid, which has my name and address on it, and in my son's case a letter from his Epilepsy Consultant.
Please get your facts straight.

Seems some people here seem to have confused the granting of car Blue Cards with the Railcard. There is no connection and I have made no such comparison.

I think you are getting confused between Railcards, administered by RDG, and a theoretical national disability proof card scheme not administered by the railway.

 

[JaJaWa]

I recall that well, and even the likes of renowned bull****ter and egotist Stephen Fry retweeted a petition against XC. The TM in question was apparently distraught.

The complaint was a complete tissue of lies and XC earned my enduring respect by investigating it thoroughly and eventually issuing a statement blatantly calling the complainant a liar. Because that’s exactly what they were.

Is that statement available anywhere?

 

[AlterEgo]

Is that statement available anywhere?

Haven’t the foggiest. I very much doubt any of the tabloids ran the story again saying “sorry, it was all lies”.

 

[Bletchleyite]

We seem to have lost sight of the fact there were 3 members of the travelling party - husband / wife & guide dog. I don't think it is unreasonable for them to have the expectation that they could use the "priority seats" to seat the 3 of them together (unless of course they were already occupied by people entitled to use them). I am not sure what the world is coming to; courtesy and understanding is very much in short supply nowadays.

Hmm. On a very busy train (or one where seat pitch is so tight I would otherwise end up taking two seats with my legs) I would not necessarily give up a second priority seat for a carer. It would depend on perceived need and/or how nicely they asked[1]. A fully able bodied carer can stand just as well as anyone else can; if you want two seats together make a seat reservation.

[1] I will always respond favourably to a polite, reasonable request made without entitlement. I will always respond to the least helpful extent I legally/contractually can if approached rudely.

 

[TUC]

Couldn't agree more - there is far too much "he should have done this", "he didn't do that" on this thread (even insinuations that he might be telling lies or at least stretching the truth!). At the end of the day whats it coming to if someone can't give up their seat for a blind man.

My wife's (who as mentioned above is blind) comment on the issue was 'therr are too many blind people who play the 'pathetic' card.