Blue Pullman Returns

[Malcmal]

Lots of negativity, I think it’s beautiful, and I’ll be over the moon to see this run.

My sentiments exactly. I really don't know what the problem is with some people!!! Honestly this thread is just unreal with people whining about the artists impression not looking exactly like an HST or the location of marker lights. No wonder people look down on rail enthusiasts with this kind of "wibble" - I hate that word but I can see how it applies beautifully to this topic.

 

[Ladder23]

My sentiments exactly. I really don't know what the problem is with some people!!! Honestly this thread is just unreal with people whining about the artists impression not looking exactly like an HST or the location of marker lights. No wonder people look down on rail enthusiasts with this kind of "wibble" - I hate that word but I can see how it applies beautifully to this topic.

Cannot agree more!

 

[trainmania100]

Guessing the doors will be a different colour too for disabled people or is this no longer a requirement to have contrasting door colours?
In my opinion, it looks ok, but the power cars need more than just small text and the rest all blue. Maybe make a big logo on the side will midland Pullman in big font

 

[fireftrm]

Would perhaps think that the original InterCity 125 livery would be more eyecatching.

but wouldn’t work for the general public, or meet the whole product of Midland Pullman, it’s not being modelled on the basis of an HST charter operation, it’s a premium Pullman service dedicated to a route

 

[edwin_m]

The first time the train was mimicked was in 2006 via Hertfordshire Railtours and FM Rail. 2 locomotives and a set of 11 mk2s were painted incl. 8x FO, 2x Mk1 kitchen and 1x BSO.

One of the Mk2s was in the NRM last time I looked. Not sure why they are so obsessed with obscure one-offs rather than the day-to-day liveries that everyone saw.

Guessing the doors will be a different colour too for disabled people or is this no longer a requirement to have contrasting door colours?
In my opinion, it looks ok, but the power cars need more than just small text and the rest all blue. Maybe make a big logo on the side will midland Pullman in big font

Looking at the original BP, the white area round the windows was larger and wrapped around over the driver's side window. I think doing that with the HST would make it look a lot better. But some large text or logo on the side would be over the top - perhaps the coat of arms could be repeated in the empty blue area?

We've already had a charter set in blue and grey so perhaps they didn't want to repeat that, and probably the daily liveries many remember from 70s and 80s don't project the kind of image they want. At least they haven't tried to do something with umber and cream...

 

[ashkeba]

but wouldn’t work for the general public, or meet the whole product of Midland Pullman, it’s not being modelled on the basis of an HST charter operation, it’s a premium Pullman service dedicated to a route

Yes, the "bruised banana" original InterCity125 livery is now associated with 1980s decline in many minds, having turned up dirty and late too often.

I would pay to travel on a production HST in prototype livery as seen on the NRM one, even though it is a memory of something that did not really happen. Maybe fake memories are less damaged by reality?

 

[Flying Phil]

This thread could use a picture....This (Apologies for quality) was taken at Paddington in 1967 ish.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Guessing the doors will be a different colour too for disabled people or is this no longer a requirement to have contrasting door colours?

Not a requirement for charter services, provided they have other arrangements for people with disabilities.

Looking at the original BP, the white area round the windows was larger and wrapped around over the driver's side window. I think doing that with the HST would make it look a lot better. But some large text or logo on the side would be over the top - perhaps the coat of arms could be repeated in the empty blue area?

The livery has been changed by Statesman Rail to include this already.

 

[hexagon789]

Definitely one of the more "interesting" ventures of the moment, but like others I'm not quite convinced about the attempt to paint an HST in an approximation of the Nanking Blue livery.

 

[hexagon789]

That rings a bell based off some of the documentaries I've seen - they might have been referred to as "milkmen" as well, or was that earlier diesel drivers?

-Peter

It was the original uniform of the Western Region Pullman drivers uniform, it lasted officially only about two years and was replaced as impractical though some drivers continued to wear it for a few years.

The London Midland drivers worn a completely different style and colour of uniform that was far more practical in a railway that still had a large amount of smoke and soot drifting about from steam locos.

 

[50039]

From the artist impressions I’ve seen - the Mk3s look great.... the power cars don’t look quite right - but they’ll probably be stunning once they are done and we see them in the flesh

 

[Peter C]

It was the original uniform of the Western Region Pullman drivers uniform, it lasted officially only about two years and was replaced as impractical though some drivers continued to wear it for a few years.

The London Midland drivers worn a completely different style and colour of uniform that was far more practical in a railway that still had a large amount of smoke and soot drifting about from steam locos.

Ah OK - thanks for clearing that one up

-Peter

 

[Journeyman]

This certainly looks like the closest we'll get to a Blue Pullman, short of someone coughing up a LOT of money to create an authentic replica! The Blue Pullman did prove the concept of diesel-electric trains with power cars at both ends, so it was a genuine HST predecessor. Seems to me a good way to commemorate two iconic trains, and they're chasing a market that's pretty lucrative. Not my thing, really, so I'm not likely to travel on it, but I'm sure a lot will.

 

[DB]

The Blue Pullman did prove the concept of diesel-electric trains with power cars at both ends, so it was a genuine HST predecessor.

To an extent, but there were important differences - the blue pullman was a closer to a DMU in that it had passenger accommodation in the power cars. Also, the two intermediate vehicles next to the power cars (one at each end) also had traction motors. The HST is more a case of a top and tail formation with two single-cabbed locos, as none of the intermediate vehicles are powered.

 

[hst43102]

Guessing the doors will be a different colour too for disabled people or is this no longer a requirement to have contrasting door colours?

I *think* that the contrasting doors are only a requirement for everyday service stock. Railtour stock can be authentic - such as the LNER final HST set or the NSE livery 313.

Personally, I love this idea for a HST Blue Pullman. One thing I noticed with the artist's impressions is that the headlights on the power cars are the design used on the MTU powered locos - I thought LSL has procured VP185 locos?

 

[Oscar46016]

looks pretty good to me - and I'm sure the price will reflect this!

 

[superjohn]

One thing I noticed with the artist's impressions is that the headlights on the power cars are the design used on the MTU powered locos - I thought LSL has procured VP185 locos?

I suspect the artist’s impression is just a photoshopped picture of an HST in another livery that happened to have the MTU style headlights. What actually appears is likely to be slightly different.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

the blue pullman was a closer to a DMU in that it had passenger accommodation in the power cars. Also, the two intermediate vehicles next to the power cars (one at each end) also had traction motors.

So an ancestor of the Voyagers?

 

[DB]

So an ancestor of the Voyagers?

The Voyagers have engines under every vehicle, each one feeding its own traction motors.

 

[43096]

So an ancestor of the Voyagers?

In concept more like a Hastings unit.

 

[eMeS]

I used the original to travel home to Manchester in Spring, 1962 - I'd been in London for job interviews. I enjoyed the meal, and the journey through Derbyshire.

 

[CW2]

It's a "thumbs up" from me. An attractive livery with a nod to the past. I hope that LSL can make it pay. I look forward to a trip out on it in due course.

 

[Ashley Hill]

If there is one diesel that is recognised by the general public it's "InterCity 125". In some ways, it's a bit odd to dress one up as the Blue Pullman.

No more odd than painting it Pullman brown and cream.

That rings a bell based off some of the documentaries I've seen - they might have been referred to as "milkmen" as well, or was that earlier diesel drivers?

-Peter

I've also heard the WR Pullman drivers described as "stop me and buy one drivers" due to the white hat and dustcoat that's similar to an old ice cream vendors outfit.

 

[Peter C]

No more odd than painting it Pullman brown and cream.

I've also heard the WR Pullman drivers described as "stop me and buy one drivers" due to the white hat and dustcoat that's similar to an old ice cream vendors outfit.

Interesting - quite funny what people can come up with!

-Peter

 

[stj]

I think the reverse Blue/Grey would have been better as it was used on Pullmans and the prototype.

 

[midland1]

Looking at the picture of the HST, they have made the same mistake as when they first painted the Blue Pullman in that they painted the kitchen area sides plain blue, but changed it to blue and white before it entered service. You can see this on films of the testing runs, it was thought it looked better blue and white along the entire side of the train with just the blue over the engine part.

 

[Neptune]

The original Blue Pullmans were DEMU’s. Regardless of if there’s passenger accommodation in the power car (original) or not (HST version) they are similar formed trains (Power car on either end with coaches in between). I for one think it will look superb and is a great concept and hope it is a success for them.

 

[hexagon789]

The original Blue Pullmans were DEMU’s. Regardless of if there’s passenger accommodation in the power car (original) or not (HST version) they are similar formed trains (Power car on either end with coaches in between). I for one think it will look superb and is a great concept and hope it is a success for them.

Though until the six-car sets transferred to the Western and had modifications they weren't able to run in multiple and I don't believe the eight-car sets ever were as they didn't gain jumpers on the front ends.

 

[edwin_m]

In relation to multiple working the BP in its original form was the same as the HST - the two ends worked in multiple with each other but there was no capability to work in multiple with a separate train.

 

[45517]

Lots of negativity, I think it’s beautiful, and I’ll be over the moon to see this run.

Completely agree, it will look stunning, especially through the Derbyshire valleys. I only saw the original parked up at Manchester Central, and will be happy to appreciate this as an impression - it's not trying to be a replica or a recreation. I hope their plans include trips with northern starting points, I'll be interested in taking a ride on it.