Only for a 73 too!
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Bluebell to get an EMU and another diesel in the New Year
- Thread starter DavyCrocket
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Only for a 73 too!
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87015
Established Member
I'm inclined to agree. Does seem an awful ching for one round trip.
Techniquest
Veteran Member
I'm tempted to put money on it breaking down. I've never seen such an amount of money used on ONE locomotive (that same money could have been used to buy more trains for this country to solve overcrowding or gone a long way to re-opening key routes, those options being FAR more useful to the country as a whole than fixing ONE steam locomotive), it's absurd.
A proper tran with rather large group of followers , Oh I know 60163 Tornadothat gets lots and lots of followers they have even had to re route a tour due to crowd control/security issues at Newcastle.
I personally hope that 60163 fails majorly on the mainline, on this rip-off tour in the next couple of months, to show once and for all steam cannot be trusted on its own.
And I also think it's grossly unfair to jack up the price of a tour principally booked by passengers to have a ride behind 60163 by so much, especially when 3/4 of the tour is diesel-hauled. £94 to sit in Standard Class for 132 miles behind a new steam locomotive? Why should the travelling public be forced to pay such a huge fare just to sample a new steam locomotive? More so, why should they be forced to pay for the damned thing through the fare?
And when you say 33 years don't even get started on Steam locomotives :roll: For example 34067 Tangmere is still going strong today and thats over 67 years old
This has got me wound up more than anything else. Let's look at it without rose-tinted spectacles for a minute:
34067 'Tangmere', when was that built? 1930s? I'm not going to look it up, that means I've got to use effort to research a locomotive that doesn't interest me. On the assumption it was built in 1931 (which would tie in with your estimated age of it), that would mean it had a 45 years headstart on the HSTs of 33 years this year.
Also, when was 34067 removed from frontline service? 1967? And how much work has she done since then on the mainline? How long did it take the owner(s) to bring it back to the mainline standard?
Let's assume it was taken off frontline work in 1967, that means it only managed 36 years of service. I can be fairly sure it wasn't used in long-distance frontline service every single day either, on the Southern's premier trains.
Now, let's compare that with the HST. 33 years this spring (1976 - 2009 and counting!) of age in daily, frontline service on premier services throughout the Western Region, then onto the Eastern Region, NE - SW Cross Country services and of course eventually the Midland Mainline. And the HSTs were, as I say, in use all day long every day, unlike 34067 would have been, which I daresay would have dragged a couple of trains along the Southern Region metals a day before giving up for the night.
Also consider the fact that the class managed 30 years before they were needing new engines. Well, they might have managed to carry on for longer if they were cared for better but even then for daily 125mph running as standard and stopping/starting all the time (compared to the timetable in the 70s and 80s) they did very well in my eyes.
Then there's the fact there are no exact plans to take the HSTs away from daily frontline services on the Western Region any time soon, even then by the time it happens the class will be 40 years of age and counting.
Finally, don't forget the class was originally only designed as a stop-gap until the ATP and electrification was going, with a 10 year lifespan estimated for the class. The fact they've outlived that 3 times over and will manage 4 times over stands as testiment to their greatness.
But in 30 years time will there be any HST preserved I only think the NRM will have one and maybe one else where
End of the day its only a train
James
There WILL be a HST preserved, this is the long-term goal of the 125 Group and will happen. It hasn't yet because everyone has snapped up what's left (compared to a few years ago when plenty of HST stock was sitting around in MoD depots, this is excellent news), indeed GC and AXC had to convert loco-hauled MK3s in order to find enough stock. I daresay no-one decades ago thought this would happen. When withdrawals happen, then preservation will begin proper. Until then, sensibly the group is gathering what they can.
End of the day, the HST is far superior in many people's eyes to steam locomotives and will always be the case.
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100% agreed, the Bluebell are taking the redundant waters. £30 for a few miles (less than 20 miles?) is something even NXEC don't stoop to. I for one refuse to pay such outlandish prices and prefer the idea of avoiding the Bluebell totally until they see sense. Even at half that price it's very expensive.
Bloody steam freaks...
Phoenix
Established Member
Well Techniquest I agree that steam can be a pain for us diesel/Electric fans out there but I guess from time to time we need to remeber that without steam there well wouldn't be the railway (the good parts) with have with us today.
Techniquest
Veteran Member
*Releases safety valve*
True, I accept that much. What I refuse to accept is the Bluebell charging so much for this special with a 73 on such a short line. I nearly flagged the tour with EMT from Leicester to Scarborough and back last summer using a HST because of the cost (but that was more because I had very little money, not because of it being uber expensive), thankfully I found the money to do it and had a great day out. That, incidentally was also £30 and was a lot more mileage than this Bluebell one offers and had some proper motive power. I can't imagine even 73 cranks going for this thing!
True, I accept that much. What I refuse to accept is the Bluebell charging so much for this special with a 73 on such a short line. I nearly flagged the tour with EMT from Leicester to Scarborough and back last summer using a HST because of the cost (but that was more because I had very little money, not because of it being uber expensive), thankfully I found the money to do it and had a great day out. That, incidentally was also £30 and was a lot more mileage than this Bluebell one offers and had some proper motive power. I can't imagine even 73 cranks going for this thing!
90019
Established Member
I listed all UK diesel locos capable of 90mph+ here:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=284556&postcount=62
CraigS
Established Member
Techniquest
Veteran Member
So a whopping 16 years in service...*sniggers*
Daniel533
Member
If its comparing how long Steam/Deisels have been in service then lets not forget the Romney steamers, the youngest of which has seen 71 years of service and is still going strong.
90019
Established Member
Daily mainline high speed service?
Daniel533
Member
25mph is high speeds for 1/3rd scale locos and it operates all year round.
90019
Established Member
DavyCrocket
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To put it simple, it's a one off (bar a charter also happening at some point), it's for a specific cause (the East Grinstead extension/bottomless money pit) and there will be the people to pay for it. There was also an idea as to who could raise the most cash, the pro diesel train or anti diesel train, which ever raised the most would wither have the train run, or not have it run!
I am told that there will be a higer than normal presence of staff, lineside checking lineside permits - so make sure that you have one - they can only be issued at ticket offices!
34067James
Member
I always got told that a 37 max is 80 MPH but there are some that have something that the other 37's dont have which make them reach 90MPH,
another thing is if HST go 125MPH why do you need a HS2 for up north :-?
James
90019
Established Member
IIRC, all 37s can do 90mph
Because they cannot go 125mph the whole way, AFAIK due to the limitations of the tracks.
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Indeed, if we could have HSTs storming the 395 miles from The Centre Of The Universe to Edinburgh, there would zero point in having HS2. But yes, as 90019 points out, the geographic nature of the UK does not permit 125mph straight lines direct from The Centre Of The Universe to anywhere far from it really. Just have a look at the ECML in the Baker, it's far from straight up the East Coast! Like north of Darlington, the route becomes much more twisty, especially north of Newcastle.
Same applies to the WCML north of Preston and more so north of Carlisle, which was one of the key reasons for having tilting trains on the WCML, so they can take the curves much faster and reach the destinations much faster.
Another thing to consider is that down here on the Western Region we are hearing rumours of the HST being made to continue until 2025. If that is the case, that would be a mammoth FOURTY-NINE years in frontline service. Now THAT will be very impressive. Of course, on the Eastern Region things are to be different since you lot already have the wires up so the electric version of the IEP is looking likely to reach the East Coast Main Line still.
Same applies to the WCML north of Preston and more so north of Carlisle, which was one of the key reasons for having tilting trains on the WCML, so they can take the curves much faster and reach the destinations much faster.
Another thing to consider is that down here on the Western Region we are hearing rumours of the HST being made to continue until 2025. If that is the case, that would be a mammoth FOURTY-NINE years in frontline service. Now THAT will be very impressive. Of course, on the Eastern Region things are to be different since you lot already have the wires up so the electric version of the IEP is looking likely to reach the East Coast Main Line still.
34067James
Member
I knew she was built in the 40's just did not know when so I was guessing after the battle of britian , And they are ment to be me favorite class of steam train
Must get that book I saw at KESR http://www.kesr.org.uk/acatalog/info_664.html that help me alot.Might off had just 16 years then but she is still going strong today The Golden Arrow tour on saturday she did a brilliant job but the diesel did have a problem.
At the end of the day Techniquest its only a train I like Steam you like Diesel , Though I like plane more now that you can go fast
Steam Vs Diesel think of it as beauty and the beast I let you decide which one is the beast
IIRC, all 37s can do 90mph
Because they cannot go 125mph the whole way, AFAIK due to the limitations of the tracks.
I tell that person the next time I see him all 37's can do 90 MPH and not 80.
I think a good place for the HS2 line would be the Waterloo-Weymouth route
James
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Techniquest
Veteran Member
Still only 16 years before getting taken off the mainline...
At the end of the day Techniquest its only a train I like Steam you like Diesel , Though I like plane more now that you can go fast
Steam Vs Diesel think of it as beauty and the beast I let you decide which one is the beast
I'll say steam is not the beast on this one, purely because like a beautiful woman you need to spend a fortune just to go with one...Case in point, the upcoming first tour with 60163 making a small appearance. £94 because of the steam, a diesel-only tour of the same routing would probably be £69. That said, most diesel tours come in between £48 and £69, with most steam tours only starting at £69 or more...
On pure enjoyment, I'll say diesel is the beauty because quite frankly there's nothing better than a pair of Valentas, Napier NA256 turbochargers and Marston coolers screaming their hearts out. Absolutely fantastic sound of which the only thing that comes close would be a 37 on a heavy load giving it its all...In comparison, most steam locomotives are as noisy as the kettle in my kitchen and I can't stand that noise!
One sees many a steam enthusiast with a hat on which there is a logo saying "Save oil - Bring back steam". I've always wanted a hat that says "Save coal - Get rid of steam", such is the level of anti-steam enthusiast within me.
Nevertheless, this is indeed a discussion neither of us will win as we are both passionate about our preferred motive power. I could argue the case for diesels and more so HSTs for the rest of my days, you could do the same but with steam and 34067 I am in no doubt. Although one day you'd win as you're no doubt younger than me!
So yes, I'm now sick of coming on here every day to argue the pro-diesel/anti-steam side now, we've both said what needs to be said. It's a never-ending discussion, so I too will leave it where it is. I will, however, say thank you for the discussion, heated though it was at points, as it was a pleasure to get into a passionate debate again.
Most 37s do 75 or 80mph (I've not got a book to check), I forget which 37s do 90mph.
Not one to ponder these things for days (sic), I'm intrigued, why do you feel that to be the case?
90019
Established Member
Most 37s do 75 or 80mph (I've not got a book to check), I forget which 37s do 90mph.
I guess I've been misinformed again then
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Never mind, easy for that to happen with so much duff gen/information out there!
At a pure guess, I'd say the 37/9s are the only ones capable of 90mph, alas I don't know that for fact.
At a pure guess, I'd say the 37/9s are the only ones capable of 90mph, alas I don't know that for fact.
Hmm
it's my birthday too; don't think so, a bit rich too coming from the All Steam railway, I hope everyone boycotts it at that fare 
and anyone considering a lineside; there are many legal rights of way alongside and crossing the line which make ideal vantage points. Whilst I'm very much in favour of the extension to EG (as I live here) I can't condone ripoff tactics which at the end of the day will be a drop in the ocean compared to the cost of the whole project. Why not call yourself a bank instead?
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34067James
Member
Hmm
and anyone considering a lineside; there are many legal rights of way alongside and crossing the line which make ideal vantage points. Whilst I'm very much in favour of the extension to EG (as I live here) I can't condone ripoff tactics which at the end of the day will be a drop in the ocean compared to the cost of the whole project. Why not call yourself a bank instead?
I think the £30 is to help with the expanison to East grinstead.
James
CraigS
Established Member
Certainly is.
The Bluebell Railway have updated their website with details of the 73 on the passenger train on 7th March
http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/events/2009/wealden_exclusive.html
how is one supposed to get to Sheffield Park? you can't even buy a ticket for it at Kingscote
34067James
Member
how is one supposed to get to Sheffield Park? you can't even buy a ticket for it at Kingscote
Car :roll:
James
2030720310
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Perseverance
CraigS
Established Member
Nice shots of 73136 there Zoom, I particularly like the last one. Where abouts was it taken? I was also at West Hoathly when "Perseverance" was enroute to Kingscote!
Here are a few of my shots of 73136 from today and also a few from yesterday when it was working the spoil trains between Imberhorne Lane and Horsted Keynes.
73136 passes West Hoathly, 07/03
73136 passes Keysford Lane (between Sheffield Park and Horsted Keynes) southbound, 07/03
73136 passes Keysford Lane (between Sheffield Park and Horsted Keynes) northbound, 07/03
73136 departs Horsted Keynes with empty wagons for Imberhorne Lane, 06/03
73136 approaches Horsted Keynes, 50 minutes after the previous shot, with the now loaded wagons from Imberhorne Lane, 06/03
73136 approaches Horsted Keynes after another round trip from Horsted Keynes to Imberhorne Lane, 06/03
A video of 73136 on the passenger run today @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KrX6i6XVXU&feature=channel_page
A video of 73136 on the spoil train yesterday @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tPqk3xIuZQ&feature=channel_page
I was really suprised how quick it took them to unload the wagons, take them up to Imberhorne, load them up, then bring them down again. I was expecting to be waiting hours between the runs and only had to wait 50 minutes between each movement.
Here are a few of my shots of 73136 from today and also a few from yesterday when it was working the spoil trains between Imberhorne Lane and Horsted Keynes.
73136 passes West Hoathly, 07/03
73136 passes Keysford Lane (between Sheffield Park and Horsted Keynes) southbound, 07/03
73136 passes Keysford Lane (between Sheffield Park and Horsted Keynes) northbound, 07/03
73136 departs Horsted Keynes with empty wagons for Imberhorne Lane, 06/03
73136 approaches Horsted Keynes, 50 minutes after the previous shot, with the now loaded wagons from Imberhorne Lane, 06/03
73136 approaches Horsted Keynes after another round trip from Horsted Keynes to Imberhorne Lane, 06/03
A video of 73136 on the passenger run today @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KrX6i6XVXU&feature=channel_page
A video of 73136 on the spoil train yesterday @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tPqk3xIuZQ&feature=channel_page
I was really suprised how quick it took them to unload the wagons, take them up to Imberhorne, load them up, then bring them down again. I was expecting to be waiting hours between the runs and only had to wait 50 minutes between each movement.
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Looks good there gents!
The last of mine was taken from (a safe distance away from) a public footpath crossing on the Northern section ( won't disclose exactly where on the web); I was standing on the bridge but the smoke from the track clearance party was in danger of obscuring a possibly unrepeatable shot.
I hope the BR run some repeats of this train it was a very good idea
I hope the BR run some repeats of this train it was a very good idea
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