Boarding a train without a ticket - really illegal?

[AER]

Hello, can someone please clear this up for me ? Northern Rail are telling me that it is "illegal to board a train without a ticket if you get on at a station with a ticket office that's manned". Is this really true ? If there is some truth does anyone know the actual wording of the law please. Thanks in advance.

 

[Lampshade]

It's breaking a railway by-law so yes it's technically illegal.

18. Ticketless travel in non-compulsory ticket areas

(1) In any area not designated as a compulsory ticket area, no person shall enter any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket entitling him to travel.

(2) A person shall hand over his ticket for inspection and verification of validity when asked to do so by an authorised person.

(3) No person shall be in breach of Byelaw 18(1) or 18(2) if:

(i) there were no facilities in working order for the issue or validation of any ticket at the time when, and the station where, he began his journey; or
(ii) there was a notice at the station where he began his journey permitting journeys to be started without a valid ticket; or
(iii) an authorised person gave him permission to travel without a valid ticket.

So basically, you're only in the clear if there is no opportunity to buy a ticket beforehand.

 

[yorkie]

If you travel in a train:
(a) without a ticket; or
(b) the circumstances described in Conditions 10, 11, 12, 18, 19, 22, 30, 35 and 39
apply;
you will be liable to pay the full single fare or full return fare or, if appropriate, a
Penalty Fare (see Condition 4) for your journey. You will not be entitled to any
discounts or special terms unless either:
(i) at the station where you started your journey:
there was no ticket office or no ticket office was open and there were no
self- service ticket machines or no self-service ticket machines were in full working order and in Penalty Fares areas you bought a Permit to Travel unless no Permit to
Travel issuing machine was in full working order
or
(ii) the notices and other publications issued by the Train Company in whose
train you are travelling indicate that you can buy tickets in that train.
In circumstances where (i) or (ii) apply, you only need to pay the fare that you
would have paid if you had bought a ticket immediately before your journey.

You can ignore the bit about penalty fares as "Penalty fares are not in force on any Northern services."

So, if you board a Northern train at a station without a ticket office, they have the right to charge you the "full fare", in other words an Anytime fare (without Railcard discount - if you have one).

In reality many Northern guards will actually offer discounted fares, but they are not supposed to.

 

[323235]

In reality many Northern guards will actually offer discounted fares, but they are not supposed to.

That's the thing I find most annoying

most Northern Conductors on the west side that I have observed, will quite happily sell discounted tickets on the train to passengers boarding at staffed stations

which sends out completely the wrong message

 

[Drsatan]

Same goes on many SWT services. The guards on the Salisbury - Southampton - Romsey services always sell discounted tickets on the train even though only four stations on that line are unmanned. Maybe they're a bit nicer than those on SWML duties

 

[dk1]

On NXEA conductors are being pulled up by managers if when downloaded found to be selling discounted tickets from barriered stations & warned they are being monitored. I even know some that have been told that unless asked they should not reccomend Group-Save. Needless to say they ignore the latter.

 

[janb]

So, if you board a Northern train at a station without a ticket office, they have the right to charge you the "full fare",

With a (functioning) ticket office/machine.

In reality many Northern guards will actually offer discounted fares, but they are not supposed to.

Sadly true. Its something that has been raised with another TOC (not Northern) and we were told that everything sold on the train was monitored and thus guards would be told to stop doing it if they were. However I've seen little evidence that this is the case on my own journeys, as I've seen all manner of discounted tickets sold even to those boarding at major stations let alone manned stations on branch lines.

 

[tony_mac]

I think that Northern do have quite a lot of unmanned stations; I've also found that one of my local stations fairly frequently has the ticket office unmanned whilst staff perform other duties. Maybe the guards don't want to have the argument about it?
Many Northern fares are Anytime anyway, so it wouldn't make much difference - why would only punishing those with railcards be fair?

I saw on a recent XC service from Newcastle that the guard was refusing discounts, but was happy to offer the XC-only Anytime ticket.

It isn't a lot cheaper than the off-peak ticket that the passengers could have bought at the station, but was a lot cheaper than the alternative Anytime ticket that they were offered once on the train!

 

[nedchester]

That's the thing I find most annoying

most Northern Conductors on the west side that I have observed, will quite happily sell discounted tickets on the train to passengers boarding at staffed stations

which sends out completely the wrong message

No if guards use their initiative (something sadly lacking on todays railway) and judge that the passenger is not trying it on then why shouldn't they offer discounted tickets? Good public relations me thinks.

The problem with the railway is that it treats the travelling public with disdain. Of course it could also be because the rail companies want to rip the travelling public off for as much as possible.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I saw on a recent XC service from Newcastle that the guard was refusing discounts, but was happy to offer the XC-only Anytime ticket.

Nothing to do with XC getting all the revenue I'm sure...........

 

[barrykas]

Regulation of Railways Act 1889, Section 5 (as amended):

(1) Every passenger by a railway shall, on request by an officer or servant of a railway company, either produce, and if so requested deliver up, a ticket showing that his fare is paid, or pay his fare from the place whence he started, or give the officer or servant his name and address; and in case of default shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 2 on the standard scale.

The "standard scale" is defined in Section 37 of the Criminal Justice Act 1982 (as amended), with Level 2 being £500.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[tony_mac]

...or pay his fare from the place whence he started..

So, it's only an offence if you don't subsequently pay the fare.

I do think it's a bit odd that they have these notices up saying 'it's illegal to get on the train without a ticket' when they are, in practice, usually quite reasonable about it!

 

[yorkie]

With a (functioning) ticket office/machine.

Sorry, yes I completely mistyped and meant to say with, not without!!

I even know some that have been told that unless asked they should not reccomend Group-Save. Needless to say they ignore the latter.

That's against impartial retailing rules as they should be sold the cheapest ticket

I saw on a recent XC service from Newcastle that the guard was refusing discounts, but was happy to offer the XC-only Anytime ticket.

Yes that's what they are supposed to do.

It's in XCs interest to do this and under impartial retailing rules they are supposed to do this, but if the customer asks for a return then they should be offered the Any Permitted as an alternative and not just given the XC only without being told it's XC only.

It isn't a lot cheaper than the off-peak ticket that the passengers could have bought at the station, but was a lot cheaper than the alternative Anytime ticket that they were offered once on the train!

That last bit doesn't make sense. The Anytime they are being offered on the train is cheaper than the Anytime they are offered on the train?

So, it's only an offence if you don't subsequently pay the fare.

That's right.

I do think it's a bit odd that they have these notices up saying 'it's illegal to get on the train without a ticket' when they are, in practice, usually quite reasonable about it!

I think it's one of those things where they quote it out of context. It's illegal unless you buy a ticket, and the notices are worded as if you are not going to buy one. But I bet there are people who are breaking the law every day who board at an unmanned station and then the guard can't get through in time for their next stop, even if they asked the guard for a ticket at the next stop the guard would be duty bound to despatch the train on time, so by the letter of the law the customer could be breaking the law even if they ask to pay. This demonstrates that the law is badly worded. When I did the Stockport-Stalybridge train a few years ago the guard said he couldn't sell tickets for journeys to/from places like Denton anyway so if a customer did Denton-Reddish South they'd be breaking the law but it wouldn't be their fault!

 

[tony_mac]

That last bit doesn't make sense. The Anytime they are being offered on the train is cheaper than the Anytime they are offered on the train?

I mean that, once they are on the train, they are only offered two choices - the XC-only anytime ticket, and the any-permitted anytime ticket.

Because of the (relatively) large price difference, passengers are buying the XC-only ticket; whereas they would be more likely to have bought an any-permitted off-peak ticket if they had bought at the station.

I wasn't suggesting that the guard did anything wrong, the choice and restrictions were clearly explained, and the passengers seemed quite happy. I just wonder if the primary reason for these tickets is so that they can sell them on the train where they have a captive audience.

I suppose it actually works reasonably well, the passengers can accept the inconvenience of the TOC-specific ticket as a penalty for not buying before boarding, the TOC don't mind as they keep all the revenue and the guard doesn't have the stress of telling people they need to buy a more expensive ticket.

 

[janb]

No if guards use their initiative (something sadly lacking on todays railway) and judge that the passenger is not trying it on then Why shouldn't they offer discounted tickets? Good public relations me thinks.

Because by boarding the train at a staffed station without a ticket they are trying to avoid paying and thus *are* trying it on. It is then insulting to those of us who always board with a ticket that they are sold discounted fares.

Fare evasion is equivalent to shoplifting, and yet I don't see pages of forums devoted to defending or justifying that group in society. Quite rightly.

 

[yorkie]

Because by boarding the train at a staffed station without a ticket they are trying to avoid paying and thus *are* trying it on.

No they aren't. That's an absurd Basil Fawlty style thing to say.

It is then insulting to those of us who always board with a ticket that they are sold discounted fares.

They should be sold an Anytime ticket, nothing more and nothing less.

Fare evasion is equivalent to shoplifting, and yet I don't see pages of forums devoted to defending or justifying that group in society. Quite rightly.

This is not a topic about evading fares, you've just made that up.

NCoC states we can buy Anytime fares on board.

 

[amn140174]

Will this then mean that if I board a Grand Central (GC) Train without a ticket im still breaking this rule or by offering tickets on the train have (GC) decided that they dont follow this rule.

Is there any known cases of people ending up in court becouse they tried to buy on the train from a staffed station. I think this is where we might see a test case one day, with someone that always buy's on the train with GC but then gets a conviction with another operator on the same line.

I think this is a rule that should be followed by all or none, most of the travelling public only know they get the train and thats it.

To use an example here take Sunderland Station when the ticket office is closed you can buy tickets to Heworth and Newcastle from the Nexus Metro ticket machines but for stations on the Durham Coast and Tyne Valley lines this is not possible, so to buy on the train going to Newcastle you have broken the rules but to buy on the train to MetroCentre you have broken no rules.

This really needs ironing out.

 

[yorkie]

Will this then mean that if I board a Grand Central (GC) Train without a ticket im still breaking this rule or by offering tickets on the train have (GC) decided that they dont follow this rule.

You can only be in trouble if you do not actually purchase a ticket when being given opportunity, so if the guard asks you and you refuse to buy a ticket, or you have no means of payment, or if you deliberately ignored the guard when the guard asked for your fare. If you are willing to pay then there is, obviously, no problem!

Is there any known cases of people ending up in court becouse they tried to buy on the train from a staffed station. I think this is where we might see a test case one day, with someone that always buy's on the train with GC but then gets a conviction with another operator on the same line.

I am sure there would not be such a case - it would have been in the media! If you ask for a ticket, they can hardly say you are attempting to avoid payment!

I think this is a rule that should be followed by all or none, most of the travelling public only know they get the train and thats it.

As a general rule all TOCs will sell full-fare tickets on board, but if there are Penalty fares in force on the train then there will be warning notices stating that and you can get a penalty fare. On some TOCs discounted tickets are available on board even from staffed stations, and I wouldn't like to see them prevented from doing so in order to make it "one rule" so I wouldn't support that proposal.

To use an example here take Sunderland Station when the ticket office is closed you can buy tickets to Heworth and Newcastle from the Nexus Metro ticket machines but for stations on the Durham Coast and Tyne Valley lines this is not possible, so to buy on the train going to Newcastle you have broken the rules but to buy on the train to MetroCentre you have broken no rules.

This really needs ironing out.

I think in reality common sense will prevail. The chances of finding a Northern guard saying this is very slim - the vast majority of Northern guards are very reasonable.

 

[janb]

No they aren't. That's an absurd Basil Fawlty style thing to say.

This is not a topic about evading fares, you've just made that up.

NCoC states we can buy Anytime fares on board.

If a person refuses the opportunity to buy before boarding, in what way are they not attempting fare evasion? Especially when they can get a cheaper fare. Seriously Yorkie you need to work in a booking office for even a week, and you wouldn't have such a naive worldview. The number of people who walk past without a ticket, or even wait outside until the train is in view to run past without being stopped is unbelievable. And thats without mentioning those using open ended tickets in each direction for as long as they can.


I don't want to get into a debate over the NCoC with such an expert, all I will say is the Railway By-Law quoted in one of the above posts is pretty clear, and the NCoC themselves say,

"Before you travel you must have a ticket or other authority to travel which is valid
for the train(s) you intend to use and for the journey you intend to make."

The selling of Anytime fares on board should be viewed as a punishment, not a right.

 

[yorkie]

I strongly disagree. If someone boards a train and is prepared to pay on board then that is, in no way, an attempt to fare evade. The courts would laugh at such a suggestion! I have done that myself, a good reason is if I am taking a bike and I don't know if I will get it on. Why the hell should I pay for a ticket I may be unable to use if I can't get it on? The guards were happy to sell the tickets and had a completely different attitude than you did (yours is libellous - nothing less). People who buy on board do the TOCs a favour as then the TOC they travel with gets 100% of the revenue, and they may even get commission for the guard too.

I recall a few years ago, when waiting to collect my bike from a DVT (so the rear of FC), a (obviously wealthy) passenger saying how she always buys her £200+ FORs from the guard as she wants the guards to get as much commission as possible (rather than it just going to the company) as that's £10 for the guard, the person she was talking to was either a guard or a customer service assistant, not sure which, but was appreciative.

As for whether it is a "punishment" that you are sold an Anytime, that's certainly not a legal view. If that is the ticket you would have bought anyway then why not buy on board? If there is a small price difference, then you may accept that for convenience. If there is a large price difference then only a fool would do that, but if they make that choice than that's their choice to make and if they want to pay a higher price, then let them but don't accuse them of evading if they ask for a ticket!

The "customer is always wrong" Basil Fawlty-style attitude isn't by any means among all or even most rail staff, but the stinking attitude is among a significant minority, and it needs to be wiped out. It doesn't exist in any other service industry (except in very few cases which would get that person disciplined). Why does it exist in the rail industry? It's a problem that the rail industry has, and it needs to stop, because it stinks.

There are many stories here of people treated badly by the rail industry. Why is that? it needs to stop, but it will only stop if the poor attitudes among some of it's employees changes. people who have that attitude do not in any way promote train travel and put their own jobs and the jobs of their colleagues in danger, in my opinion.

 

[nedchester]

I strongly disagree. If someone boards a train and is prepared to pay on board then that is, in no way, an attempt to fare evade. The courts would laugh at such a suggestion! I have done that myself, a good reason is if I am taking a bike and I don't know if I will get it on. Why the hell should I pay for a ticket I may be unable to use if I can't get it on? The guards were happy to sell the tickets and had a completely different attitude than you did (yours is libellous - nothing less). People who buy on board do the TOCs a favour as then the TOC they travel with gets 100% of the revenue, and they may even get commission for the guard too.

I recall a few years ago, when waiting to collect my bike from a DVT (so the rear of FC), a (obviously wealthy) passenger saying how she always buys her £200+ FORs from the guard as she wants the guards to get as much commission as possible (rather than it just going to the company) as that's £10 for the guard, the person she was talking to was either a guard or a customer service assistant, not sure which, but was appreciative.

The "customer is always wrong" Basil Fawlty-style attitude isn't by any means among all or even most rail staff, but the stinking attitude is among a significant minority, and it needs to be wiped out. It doesn't exist in any other service industry (except in very few cases which would get that person disciplined). Why does it exist in the rail industry? It's a problem that the rail industry has, and it needs to stop, because it stinks.

There are many stories here of people treated badly by the rail industry. Why is that? it needs to stop, but it will only stop if the poor attitudes among some of it's employees changes. people who have that attitude do not in any way promote train travel and put their own jobs and the jobs of their colleagues in danger, in my opinion.

Agree. There does seem an attitude amongst some so called rail professionals that everyone is out to break the law.

There are many reasons for boarding a train without a ticket.

1. Big queue at the ticket office.
2. Checking to see if there's spare seats on the train
3. See if the right engine's on the train (an old one used by rail enthusiasts!!!)
4. Not having time to buy a ticket when needing to buy 2 tickets for a journey
5. The ticket machine would take credit cards (happened to me only last week)
and many many more.

The on train staff should be allowed to use their initiative rather than labelling everyone as a criminal.

 

[bnm]

There's one big thing missing from this debate. It's called human nature. One of our species' evolutionary traits is the desire to get as many resources as possible for as little effort/cost as possible. We often make subconcious decisions on how we obtain those resources. If we can get away with obtaining them at reduced effort/cost, we often will. For the benefit of society as a whole we put in checks and balances (rules and laws) to counteract this individualist evolutionary trait.

When presented with opportunities to get 'something for nothing' our evolutionary hard-wiring often overcomes society's rules and our own moral objection to others behaving in this way. We are therefore happy to exploit lax rule enforcement. If the punishment for getting caught is not seen as too harsh then more people will justify to themselves that it is okay to risk it; this concious decision is underpinned by a strong subconcious evolutionary advantage to the inviduals who take said risk. They have saved some of their own resources at the expense of someone elses.

So if there is an opportunity to board a train without a ticket when one was available to purchase beforehand, some people will take it. Balancing the likelihood of facing some form of punishment for this against the likelihood of getting 'something for nothing' will inform the individuals decision. Previous experience (intelligence) and fellow passengers experience (extelligence) also help in making the decision whether to pay or not. Once on board a passenger is far more likely to sit tight in the hope of getting their journey at no cost than to seek out the guard and pay.

There are slightly different evolutionary traits at work when it comes to deliberately intending not to pay. I've not read that bit of Darwin yet!!

 

[scrapy]

I would look at lost revenue to train companies in the following ways:-

1) People who refuse to pay, or have no money and don't pay a UPFN.
2) People who show a forged, expired or already used ticket
3) People travelling on a discounted ticket they aren't entitled to
4) People buying a 'short fare ticket' (not a ticket for their full journey, so they can get through barriers))
5) People boarding where they have had the opportunity to buy a ticket but choose not to do so, however are willing to pay if checked.
6) People who have not had the opportunity to pay before travelling and their ticket isn't checked so have no opportunity to buy one.

I don't think that any one can argue the first four instances are fare evasion, and unless their are any other mitigating circumstances these people should be prosecuted. I also think instance six there is no way somebody can be prosecuted.

Instance 5 is more of a grey area. The passenger will sometimes pay and sometimes not pay. Some may argue this is the fault of the TOC for not doing enough ticket checks onboard, however it is often not possible (how can a guard get through four coaches coming out of a major city and sell 100 tickets in maybe five minutes before the first stop?). It is generally those who are travelling a few stops who take advantage of this, but do not consider themselves fare evaders. Yes there could be more staff on trains but this costs money which could be put into improvements. The question has to be asked should these people be classed as fare evaders? I believe they should.

It all comes down to whether you think it is the train operators job to ensure they have tickets, or the passengers job to buy a ticket.

As it is the taxpayer who is subsidising their free travel, are they as bad as benefits cheats??

 

[Failed Unit]

Agree. There does seem an attitude amongst some so called rail professionals that everyone is out to break the law.

There are many reasons for boarding a train without a ticket.

1. Big queue at the ticket office.

I have had this one recently wth a bit of common sense provialing as well.

A TOC will always argue that you should arrive with lots of time to board a train. I arrived at 1630 for a train at 1651. It was clear at 1645 that I was not going to be served before the train so they let me through the barrier to buy on the train. (along with a few others). They even let me use my railcard on the train.

In this case the queue at the ticket office was down to someone buying a AP ticket (only one member of staff to sell both today's and AP's). I am sure there is a clause that if you can prove you can't get served in a reasonable time (10 minutes?) you can buy on the train. However proving it can be difficult. The same as proving the vending machine didn't accept your £10 note in the South East!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Instance 5 is more of a grey area. The passenger will sometimes pay and sometimes not pay. Some may argue this is the fault of the TOC for not doing enough ticket checks onboard, however it is often not possible (how can a guard get through four coaches coming out of a major city and sell 100 tickets in maybe five minutes before the first stop?). It is generally those who are travelling a few stops who take advantage of this, but do not consider themselves fare evaders. Yes there could be more staff on trains but this costs money which could be put into improvements. The question has to be asked should these people be classed as fare evaders? I believe they should.

In Lincolnshire people travelling from place like Methringham, Saxilby and Market Rasen fall into this catergory. At these stations it is only possible to buy the ticket on the train. It is not always possible for the gaurd to sell them one due to the volumes of people boarding at these stations. On arrival at Lincoln most people used to take advantage and save 10p (they bought a single to return). CT barriered the station to prevent this, but they still refused to put vending machines at the stations TO GIVE PEOPLE A CHANCE to buy a ticket. CT treated us all as if we were fare dodgers when in reality the fare evasion was down to thier policies, in the case of Market Rasen closing down the ticket office and not providing an alternative. I know the same problems existed between Newark Castle and Nottingham. So in some cases I have no sympathy for the TOC. What was worse about CT, when passengers used to complain about overcrowding they came back with "passenger counts and ticket sales prove their is no problem on this train". They never did passenger counts as no-one could phyiscally fit down the train to count them and how could they have known they ticket sales when about 75% of people from Market Rasen had no chance of buying one!

/rant

 

[SouthEastern-465]

If you get on any train in britain without a ticket it is illegal it is equally the same going into a car showroom and taking a car and not paying for it.

I have seen a ticket inspector before let off someone for not paying for a ticket and advising them to get the train straight back up,now to me that is disrespectful to the paying customers,and he should of fined them whatever there bank acount balance is,they know what there doing and that is just encouraging more people to commit the crime by letting others off.

Anyway the Bromley North line is a big target for train "Bunkers" and but lucky enough I think Grove park and Bromley North are getting ticket barriers.

 

[Bighat]

If you get on any train in britain without a ticket it is illegal it is equally the same going into a car showroom and taking a car and not paying for it.

I have seen a ticket inspector before let off someone for not paying for a ticket and advising them to get the train straight back up,now to me that is disrespectful to the paying customers,and he should of fined them whatever there bank acount balance is,they know what there doing and that is just encouraging more people to commit the crime by letting others off.

Anyway the bromley North line is a big target for train "Bunkers" and but lucky enough I think Grove park and Bromley North are getting ticket barriers.

Only if thet TRAVEL somewhere on that train.

I have often assisted a friend on board a train with his luggage, but detrained before departure.

its like stealing, you can only be accused of the offence once you LEAVE the premises.

 

[Failed Unit]

If you get on any train in britain without a ticket it is illegal it is equally the same going into a car showroom and taking a car and not paying for it.

I have seen a ticket inspector before let off someone for not paying for a ticket and advising them to get the train straight back up,now to me that is disrespectful to the paying customers,and he should of fined them whatever there bank acount balance is,they know what there doing and that is just encouraging more people to commit the crime by letting others off.

Anyway the Bromley North line is a big target for train "Bunkers" and but lucky enough I think Grove park and Bromley North are getting ticket barriers.

But these are totally different circumstances in some parts of the country. Even in the penalty fare areas of the South East. Lets say you turn up to a station and want to buy a ticket from the booking office. The Clerk is away cleaning the platform or one of the other duties they sometime do which in effect closes the office (even if they are off sick). You go to the vending machine and it doesn't want your money. What are you expected to go home? You then get on the train and leave at another unstaffed station without finding anyone to take your money what are you supposed to do? If the TOC fails you by not providing you with a means to pay for your ticket it can hardly be classed as stealing can it! Yes some passengers try it on, but I have seen many instances where the TOC is a fault. The worse was when someone was been penalty fared for having a super saver ticket they had bought 5 minutes ago from the booking office at the last stop on a Saturday in July. How were they supposed to know the ticket they had just bought was invalid! I am afraid the TOC's take the guilt until proven innocent line far to often and a lot of thier problems are down to their own poor procedures. I have got from Edinburgh - Preston before without having my ticket gripped, I wasn't hidding in the toilet it was just no-one came down the train to ask. What if I had got on at a unstaffed station like Edinburgh Park or South Gyle? How would I know where to find the train crew?

 

[nedchester]

I must say that there are a lot of 'paragons of virtue' on this thread.

Now who here has ever made a train journey and not paid for it (either intentionally or not???)

I suspect most on here have at some point.............

(I haven't said it's right just making an observation)

 

[SouthEastern-465]

I must say that there are a lot of 'paragons of virtue' on this thread.

Now who here has ever made a train journey and not paid for it (either intentionally or not???)

I suspect most on here have at some point.............

(I haven't said it's right just making an observation)

To be honest I have always and will always pay for my journeys on the railway and other types of transport.

 

[yorkie]

If you get on any train in britain without a ticket it is illegal it is equally the same going into a car showroom and taking a car and not paying for it.

What about entering a restaurant without already having paid, or boarding a bus without having already bought a ticket? Buying on board a train that is not in a penalty fare area is no different to buying on board the number 4 bus in York. Boarding a train without a ticket is not illegal, it is only if you travel on it and refuse to pay that you are then committing an offence. They have to prove intent. Just getting on a train doesn't prove intent to even travel (see post by Bighat) let alone get away without paying!!

I have seen a ticket inspector before let off someone for not paying for a ticket and advising them to get the train straight back up,now to me that is disrespectful to the paying customers,and he should of fined them whatever there bank acount balance is,they know what there doing and that is just encouraging more people to commit the crime by letting others off.

This topic is not about people who refuse to pay. Again, like a previous poster, you've just made that up. Yes people who refuse to buy the correct ticket should be prosecuted and fined. But this isn't about that.

Anyway the Bromley North line is a big target for train "Bunkers" and but lucky enough I think Grove park and Bromley North are getting ticket barriers.

But isn't that a line with Penalty Fares, and aren't the stations compulsory ticket areas? That's a bit different to buying on board a NXEC service, where NXEC advertise the fact you can buy full fare tickets on board in their timetables etc. As I said before, the guards are happy to take the commission, I believe that NXEC guards like doing the Harrogate run for example as they can take home a figure in 3 figures in commission. Unlike you they are grateful to their customers and are not going to (falsely) accuse them of illegal acts!

 

[bengley]

I'm not going to lie - I've fare evaded before, and I'm likely to do it again. Rail travel in this country is too expensive.

The first time I fare evaded (I think it was the first time) I was on a Heathrow express train from Heathrow to Paddington and I didn't have a ticket (piccadilly line would have taken forever). It was getting late and I was checked for tickets. I told a white lie and said that I thought oyster was valid (I did actually think it was valid but I had my doubts). I had no money to pay for a ticket, so I was told that I'd have to stay on the train and go back to Heathrow.

I stayed on the train literally just until the door siren sounded, then I jumped out of my seat and ran for the bakerloo line.

Needless to say, I'll never fare evade again on Heathrow Express, but if it's just the odd London Underground trip or something, I will.