Bolton - Richmond(North Yorkshire)

[yorksrob]

Whilst I've nothing against advocating bus transport on here, I would have thought that the fact that this is a railway forum means that we shouldn't all be expected to extol the virtues of bus transportation as anywhere near the equal of rail. Where will it end. Will we be expected to come out against a proposed rail service because there is already an "adequate" bus service nearby ? I have no intention of going down that slippery slope.

I personally find buses tend to be cramped, difficult to stay upright on whilst lurching about all over the place and liable to turn up willy nilly rather than to any apparent timetable, which IMO is a reflection of the limitations of the mode itself rather than those who work in it.

 

[Deerfold]

Whilst I've nothing against advocating bus transport on here, I would have thought that the fact that this is a railway forum means that we shouldn't all be expected to extol the virtues of bus transportation as anywhere near the equal of rail. Where will it end. Will we be expected to come out against a proposed rail service because there is already an "adequate" bus service nearby ? I have no intention of going down that slippery slope.

I wouldn't expect everyone here to extol the virtues of bus transportation, but I will where I feel it provides a better service. I'd be happy if the train service between Harrogate and Leeds improved to the extent it could impress people as much as the 36 bus seems to (having recently increased its frequency to every 15 minutes and not long ago increased its Sunday service to evey 30 minutes).

Between Leeds and Keighley I'd never recommend the bus unless you're on a free pass (or already have a bus-only pass) and have plenty of time to kill as the service can take 3 times as long and the trains are frequent and mostly pleasant.

I personally find buses tend to be cramped, difficult to stay upright on whilst lurching about all over the place and liable to turn up willy nilly rather than to any apparent timetable, which IMO is a reflection of the limitations of the mode itself rather than those who work in it.

That varies wildly by area and operator. The buses between Harrogate and Leeds are to a high spec (especially compared with the trains used locally except the once daily EC service) and are pretty good at sticking to the timetable.

Whilst buses can be subject to delays due to traffic congestion this can be overcome where operators and local authorities work together (bus lanes can work well) and where operators are not optimistic about how long services take and build in some recovery time at the ends of journeys.

My local services are very rarely more than a minute or two late - they're certainly less likely to be late than my local trains (which have a habit of putting on units that cannot phyisically manage the timetable on late evening duties).

Modern buses driven well should not lurch all over the place - and you shouldn't need to stand on many.

I travelled yesterday betwen Keighley and Harrogate. Unfortunately there is no simple way to travel between them by public transport, so I got the train to Leeds then the bus to Harrogate.

 

[yorksrob]

That's a fair point with regard to punctuality. I've not come across it myself, but I'm sure there are bus routes which manage a decent timetable.

With regard to specification though, I find even relatively up-to-date buses cramped, which is possibly as much to do with a lack of facing seats and luggage racks as anything else. And I have never yet encountered a bus which doesn't swing around wildly.
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I wouldn't expect everyone here to extol the virtues of bus transportation, but I will where I feel it provides a better service.

That's a fair point, and I wouldn't expect you not to.

I just think that if people can't say that they don't like buses on a railway forum where can they !

 

[Deerfold]

That's a fair point with regard to punctuality. I've not come across it myself, but I'm sure there are bus routes which manage a decent timetable.

With regard to specification though, I find even relatively up-to-date buses cramped, which is possibly as much to do with a lack of facing seats and luggage racks as anything else. And I have never yet encountered a bus which doesn't swing around wildly.

Funnily enough I sat in facing seats on two buses of the six buses I caught yesterday (and 4 of them had several).

Luggage *can* be a problem - I regularly have fun with a large suitcase on London buses (usually fine on my local ones as they have 2 wheelchair/buggy areas and it's rare for me not to be able to pop my suitcase where a flip-seat lives without getting in everyone's way).

And I wouldn't want to be on a bus for a journey of several hours (I do get long distance coaches occasionally when they're really cheap and then usually avoid them again for a few months). But then I wouldn't want to be on a railbus for a journey of that length either.
Quite happy to do London-Leeds or Edinburgh on EC though.

Glad I don't have to catch your local bus routes!

 

[142094]

Although I am a railway person, I'd much rather see someone on a bus than in a car. However, of course with deregulation, bus services often compete with rail services on some routes and in that case I'd rather see people on the trains and not the buses.

 

[yorksrob]

Funnily enough I sat in facing seats on two buses of the six buses I caught yesterday (and 4 of them had several).

Luggage *can* be a problem - I regularly have fun with a large suitcase on London buses (usually fine on my local ones as they have 2 wheelchair/buggy areas and it's rare for me not to be able to pop my suitcase where a flip-seat lives without getting in everyone's way).

And I wouldn't want to be on a bus for a journey of several hours (I do get long distance coaches occasionally when they're really cheap and then usually avoid them again for a few months). But then I wouldn't want to be on a railbus for a journey of that length either.
Quite happy to do London-Leeds or Edinburgh on EC though.

Glad I don't have to catch your local bus routes!

Well, I can't say I've ever seen buses with lots of facing seats. Occasionally you get some with one set of facing seats at the back of the bottom seat but never more.

And the buses I catch aren't hoerrendous by a long chalk. Just ordinary buses around Leeds. And they're not a patch on trains (including most Pacers).

For me, the luggage issue is that you have an area at the front, which is frequently crowded with buggies etc and no provision anywhere else, whereas on the train, there is usually a rack above me where I can put my rucksack and coat.
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Although I am a railway person, I'd much rather see someone on a bus than in a car. However, of course with deregulation, bus services often compete with rail services on some routes and in that case I'd rather see people on the trains and not the buses.

Agreed.

 

[34D]

I travelled yesterday betwen Keighley and Harrogate. Unfortunately there is no simple way to travel between them by public transport, so I got the train to Leeds then the bus to Harrogate.

762 keighley-ilkley then x52 ilkley-harrogate every 2 hours (or do ilkley-otley 962, x84, then otley-harrogate is hourly).

 

[Deerfold]

762 keighley-ilkley then x52 ilkley-harrogate every 2 hours (or do ilkley-otley 962, x84, then otley-harrogate is hourly).

I know there's a way, just not a simple way. I had a bus into Keighley and a bus out of Harrogate too - and the bus from Otley to Harrogate missed it by 3 minutes ( or add another hour on). Coming back would have been even worse as it was after the X52/X53 finished and everything else drops to hourly - then you've to do Harrogate-Pool, Pool-Otley, Otley-Ilkley, Ilkley-Keighley.

Going via Leeds on the train was more comfortable, simpler, cheaper, faster...

 

[34D]

I know there's a way, just not a simple way. I had a bus into Keighley and a bus out of Harrogate too - and the bus from Otley to Harrogate missed it by 3 minutes ( or add another hour on). Coming back would have been even worse as it was after the X52/X53 finished and everything else drops to hourly - then you've to do Harrogate-Pool, Pool-Otley, Otley-Ilkley, Ilkley-Keighley.

Going via Leeds on the train was more comfortable, simpler, cheaper, faster...

Quite agree there. If someone was desperate to do Harrogate Keighley in the evening by bus then I suppose 737 to Bradford and a bradford-keighley from there - or 737 to Greengates then 760?

As you say, train was the right choice for all your above reasons.

I much prefer train travel to car/bus/coach also.